Ten members of Iceland Parliament propose bill to criminalize Holocaust Denial (with fines/jail): Why are they doing it?

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
User avatar
Sannhet
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 835
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:12 pm
Location: USA

Ten members of Iceland Parliament propose bill to criminalize Holocaust Denial (with fines/jail): Why are they doing it?

Postby Sannhet » 2 years 4 months ago (Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:18 am)

MP Proposes Ban On Holocaust Denialism
Published January 21, 2021 / The Reykjavik Grapevine, Grapevine.is [Iceland]
(Originally seen at CODOH-Forum, French section)

An MP for the Social Democrats submitted a bill to Parliament last Tuesday that proposes an addition to the Icelandic Penal Code: making Holocaust denialism a punishable offense.

The bill has the support of all the Social Democrat MPs, as well as Reform Party MP Þorbjörg Sigríður Gunnlaugsdóttir and independent MP Andrés Ingi Jónsson. This legislation aims to add one sentence to Article 233 of the Penal Code:
“Whoever publicly denies, or cruelly diminishes, or tries to justify or approve the genocide committed by the German Nazi party in the Second World War will be subject to fines or jail time of up to two years.”

Who are these MPs pushing the Holocaust Denial law? Why now?

An investigation into how the Holocaust (and specifically Holocaust Denial laws) are used in political discourse. Iceland is small, but there are lessons that apply everywhere across the West. Even if the bill fails to pass, there are lessons from a close-in look at what was going on here.

_______________

The Icelandic Parliament consists of 63 members:

Government:
Independence Party (16 MPs): center-right, moderate freemarket
Left-Green Movement (9): socially left-wing
Progressive Party (8): right-wing, populist, strong freemarket, anti-EU

Opposition:
Centre Party (9): "centrist"
Social Democrats (8): center-left
Pirate Party (6): non-ideological, free-speech, youth-oriented, Internet-troll-culture-based semi-joke party
Reform Party (4): center-right, freemarket, pro-EU
People's Party (2): populist-nationalist, immigration-restrictionist, anti-EU
Independent (1): formerly a member of the Left-Green Movement

The law to criminalize Holocaust Denial is being pushed by ten MPs. Eight are Social Democrats, one is member of the Reform Party, and the last one is independent MP formerly of the (co-governing) Left-Green Movement. All ten sponsors are in the opposition. Why would that be? Is the Holocaust a weapon to score points against political enemies? (Yes, it is.)

You can tell that Iceland politics is consensus-based because the governing coalition is seemingly ideologically incoherent, of a kind that would never work with the equivalent parties in, say, Germany (The CDU ruling with the LINKE party?). But even in a small, consensus-driven, basically still homogenous ethnopolitical culture like Iceland's, we see clear signs that the coalition was doomed from the start, and the kinds of things defectors might do in protest; the Holocaust Bill was low-hanging fruit.

________________

Who is pushing the bill?

In the last general election, 11 people were elected MPs under the Left-Green Movement, a socially left-wing party. The party then entered a ruling coalition with the larger Independence Party, one of the usual center-right kind. Two of the original eleven Left-Green MPs have since left the party. It is no surprise that the two defectors are among the sponsors of the bill, one of them the lead-sponsor.

The lead sponsor of the bill is Rosa Björk Brynjolfsdottir (b.1975; three children; two with current cohabiting male, one from previous marriage). She is a typical social-Leftist of the European type and was a member of the Left-Green Movement but resigned several months in protest against the government's handling of "matters of refugees and asylum seekers."
Rosa Bjork Brynjolfsdottir - 2020.png

Rosa-Bjork-Brynjolfsdottir_crop.jpg

Now in opposition and a member of the Social Democrats, Rosa persuaded all seven other Social Democrats to go along with her Holocaust Denial bill, only weeks after joining the party (resigned in protest from Left-Greens, Sept. 2020; joined Social Democrats, mid-December; Holocaust bill made public, mid-January).

There are seven other Social Democratic co-sponsors (Albertina Fridbjörg Eliasdottir [female, b.1980], Agust Olafur Agustsson [male, b.1977], Gudjon S. Brjansson [male, b.1955], Gudmundur Andri Thorsson [b.1957], Helga Vala Helgadottir [female, b.1972], Logi Einarsson [male. b.1964], Oddny G. Hardardottir [female, b.1957, former party leader]), whom I will not profile individually, as they are clearly following new member Rosa's initiative. What one can say about the seven Social Democratic MPs who are co-sponsoring Rosa's bill is they hope for an infusion of energy because their party reached historic lows in the 2010s, in one election (2016) dropping to 6% of the vote, then recovering to 12% (2017). All polling suggests they will do better in 2021, probably closer to 20% than their 2017 result of 12%. But eight months remain until the election.

The one MP who is roughly on the Right is Thorbjörg Sigridur Gunnlaugsdottir (b.1978; went to New York City for a graduate degree at Columbia University, 2011), if the center-right, freemarket, pro-EU Reform Party. She has three daughters, born 2002-2012, but in the 2010s divorced her husband.

Thorbjörg Sigridur Gunnlaugsdottir.jpg
Thorbjörg Sigridur Gunnlaugsdottir.jpg (22.25 KiB) Viewed 3021 times

Thorbjörg Sigridur Gunnlaugsdottir is of a nominally Right-of-Center party but on January 20 (US inauguration day), she tweeted enthusiastic congratulations to Kamala Harris, and positively quoted Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.

The independent MP who signed onto the bill is Andres Ingi Jonsson (b.1979; lived in Berlin two years, 2004-2006; married, two children born 2010-13). Like the main sponsor of the Holocaust Denial bill (Rosa Björk Brynjolfsdottir), Andres Ingi Jonssonis also a dissident member of the Left-Green Movement, which he joined at the start of his political career in 2009. He left that party in late 2019 in protest against the Left-Green Movement cooperating with Independence Party (center-right, moderate freemarket) and Progressive Party (right-wing, populist, strong freemarket, anti-EU).

Andres Ingi Jonsson.jpeg
Andres Ingi Jonsson.jpeg (5.5 KiB) Viewed 3020 times

Andres Ingi Jonsson made the news three years ago with an initiative to "fight gender bias" in Iceland (See EuroNews).

__________________

Why are they pushing a ban on Holocaust Denial?

We see the initiative begins with Rosa Björk Brynjolfsdottir, left-wing MP who defected from the left-wing party in government for ideological reasons and within a month of signing onto the new party, this Holocaust bill is being pushed.

The next Icelandic general election is scheduled for September 2021 (coincidentally the same week as the German Bundestag election). The pushers of the bill must be confident this (kind of) action will help them and not hurt them in eight months, especially considering they are doing it while in opposition. Maybe the thinking is this shores up their ideological bona fides, in a time when there is a revolt against the Left-Greens.

There are signs that these people are True Believers. We see key figures with the bill are among the younger members of parliament, all raised in the 1980s/1990s when Holocaust Power was very strong across the West. Two have degrees from centers of Holocaust political power, Berlin and NYC.

It has been easy for Iceland to skate by somewhat detached from trends elsewhere (as demonstrated for instance by no trace of any Holocaust law until now) because of its small size. Another way Iceland is unique is the pro-fertility culture, a continuing social expectation of pairing and procreation, of a kind that has drifted out of most Western societies decades ago now. Through the 2010s Iceland had a relatively high fertility rate for a Western country (near or above 2.0 through 2012; since dropped to 1.7; there is likely a further drop in 2021 associated with the 2020's "Coronavirus Panic") . In any case, it's notable that all three of the left-wing MPs who are pushing the bill and whom I profile above, in their early forties today, have two or three children. This would be unlikely among comparable types in continental Europe.

___________________

Local-Resident Foreigner and Jewish Activism, or Lack Thereof

The Icelandic Parliament has a long history and an almost-unbroken tradition since the 10th century AD. Iceland has always been so small and self-contained (as an island) that the parliament has been more like a town council, less like the big parliaments of large states. It is harder in that kind of system for radical minority activists to make progress. There also just never were many minorities anyway.

There are only around 330,000 Icelandic citizens today (95%+ of Icelandic ancestry, some of foreign origin), and now up to 40,000 non-voting foreign residents. One might guess that these tens of thousands of foreigners include people who support banning Holocaust Denial, or come from political cultures that expect it. Polish-Christians form the biggest single foreigner group with several thousand residents.

A Jewish group claims 250 Jews live in Iceland (<0.1%); the former first-lady was Jewish (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... land_today) but she is not seemingly anything like a "political Jew."

I see no reason at all to believe domestic Jewish lobbying is behind this bill, and general pressure from foreign residents, while not zero, is also not decisive. The origins seem more within domestic politics.

___________________

Geopolitics, and More

"The origins seem more within domestic politics," but domestic politics is rarely if ever a self-contained universe; and certainly Iceland is not an isolated, lost-in-time island and is affected by general cultural and political conditions across the West, including geopolitics, which realigned considerably for Iceland in the 1940s, the world of 1939 being very different from the world of 1949, as big a realignment as almost any in Icelandic history

Important to recall here is that Iceland has effectively been under the US security-umbrella since mid-June 1941 and the entire period since; That's soon to be eighty years. It has been in NATO since the start. It is not in the EU and strong domestic forces want it to stay out. One can expect the same forces to perhaps resist the Holocaust Denial bill

User avatar
Lamprecht
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2814
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:32 pm

Re: Ten members of Iceland Parliament propose bill to criminalize Holocaust Denial (with fines/jail): Why are they doing

Postby Lamprecht » 2 years 4 months ago (Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:02 am)

Why are they pushing a ban on Holocaust Denial?

The goal is to have nowhere on earth capable of hosting this content. The USA will be an important stepping stone but if it was banned here then where would revisionist content be hosted on the internet? Most European hosts are off limits. Iran? There could be a blanket ban over "terrorism" and "misinformation" or whatever.

They also do not want there to be anywhere to flee for political dissidents. Bobby Fischer fled to Iceland. What we know is that once they start they do not stop. If this bill doesn't go through, they will just try again in a few years.

Related:

"Holocaust denial" to become a crime in Ireland?
viewtopic.php?t=13713
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
— Herbert Spencer


NOTE: I am taking a leave of absence from revisionism to focus on other things. At this point, the ball is in their court to show the alleged massive pits full of human remains at the so-called "extermination camps." After 8 decades they still refuse to do this. I wonder why...

User avatar
Sannhet
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 835
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:12 pm
Location: USA

Re: Ten members of Iceland Parliament propose bill to criminalize Holocaust Denial (with fines/jail): Why are they doing

Postby Sannhet » 2 years 4 months ago (Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:32 pm)

Lamprecht wrote:Bobby Fischer fled to Iceland.

After posting this I remembered that Bobby Fischer was given asylum by Iceland back in the 2000s. I imagine the Fischer case was truly major, major news in Iceland. Some of the motivation from the main people pushing this, especially Rosa Björk Brynjolfsdottir as the main force pushing it, may be lingering resentment over their (a previous government's) decision on the Fischer case, specifically. Embarrassment over it. But there are other, more immediate motivations at play.

User avatar
Sannhet
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 835
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:12 pm
Location: USA

Re: Ten members of Iceland Parliament propose bill to criminalize Holocaust Denial (with fines/jail): Why are they doing

Postby Sannhet » 2 years 4 months ago (Tue Jan 26, 2021 2:38 pm)

Lamprecht wrote:
Why are they pushing a ban on Holocaust Denial?

The goal is to have nowhere on earth capable of hosting this content. [....] They also do not want there to be anywhere to flee for political dissidents. [...] What we know is that once they start they do not stop. If this bill doesn't go through, they will just try again in a few years.

That is a very heavy "They"!

In fact, searching for the "They" is the main reason I wrote this post.

Who is the "They" with this Iceland Holocaust Denial ban law? It's not a cabal of Global Jews.

Specific actions are done by specific actors, at specific times, for specific reasons. In a world of imperfect information we can never know all with precision -- and in fact in a chaotic world sometimes not ruled by always-rational actors, the actors themselves don't know what they're doing when they embark down a course (the emotion of "spite," for example, is irrational but powerful) -- but we can try to find the outlines of what's going on.

Iceland, being so small, is a great case to examine the actors involved in Holocaust Politics and the sledgehammer of putting in laws to specifically ban skepticism under serious punishment.

Who? When? Why? As I say, I find not the faintest sign of a direct Global Jewish Activist hand in this matter, not any sign of domestic Jewish lobby (the number of Jews may round to 0.0% in Iceland). But there are signs of certain political factions using it as a bludgeon against others, and certain people using the whole thing to push their own careers as moral-crusaders. (It's possible this bill's backers even expect it to fail, but see political benefit to themselves somehow in publicly calling for it.)

This all points to a topic sometimes broached here at CODOH-Forum, the benefits accrued from the Holocaust to groups other than Jews. It's a wide topic.

User avatar
Sannhet
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 835
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 6:12 pm
Location: USA

U.S. and Polish diplomatic pressure on Iceland to ban Holocaust Denial?

Postby Sannhet » 2 years 4 months ago (Wed Jan 27, 2021 3:04 am)

Some other background activity from some of the relevant international players (U.S., Poland) whom I mention in the first post:

US Ambassador Reykjavik - Holocaust Remembrance Event with Polish Ambassador - January 2021.png
U.S. Ambassador Reykjavik @USAmbIceland | Jan 19th 2021

Many thanks to the Polish Ambassador Gerard Pokruszynski @PLinIceland for hosting the Holocaust Remembrance Event in #Iceland & allowing me the opportunity to discuss the U.S. @HolocaustMuseum & emphasizing the importance of not politicizing the #Holocaust. #NeverAgain

The Polish Embassy in Iceland ran a joint Holocaust event in January 2020 with the U.S. ambassador a guest of honor. The exiting U.S. ambassador, or his staff, re-announced this Holocaust event as one of his accomplishments before leaving Iceland January 20 (to make way for a Biden appointee).

The ambassador was Jeffrey Ross Gunter, Jewish dermatologist from Beverly Hills, mega-donor to Donald Trump and Trump-associated groups, first-time diplomat. Gunter had not only never been in diplomatic service, he had no knowledge of Iceland and had never been there. (He was appointed ambassador in mid-2018. The appointment was delayed but he finally took up residence in mid-2019.)

Here are some of Ambassador Gunter's other activities he highlighted:

US Ambassador Reykjavik - Torah signing - January 2021.png
US Ambassador Reykjavik - leading 2019 Gay Pride - January 2021.png
US Ambassador Reykjavik - Religious Leaders visit embassy - January 2021.png

So proud to be granted the privilege of inscribing the final letters in the first #SeferTorah in #Iceland. I signed the Torah and we celebrated the event in the Chief of Mission Residence! Religious freedom flourishes in Iceland. #ReligiousFreedom @ChabadIceland
So proud to support the Reykjavik Pride Parade & promote equal rights for the LGBTI+ community by leading the diplomatic community’s participation in the 2019 Pride Parade and underwriting costs by providing an $11,000 grant to the organizers. LGBTI+ rights are human rights! Flag of United StatesFlag of Iceland
A blessing to welcome to our #NewUSEmbassy religious leaders representing many of the different faith groups in #Iceland. #Freedomofreligion is #America's first freedom.

There are many others related to NATO and Iceland's importance to NATO. A few praise Mike Pence for a state visit to Iceland. There is even one praising Reagan at Reykjavik (Oct. 1986!). An inordinate number are about "religious freedom," which each and every time seems to shoehorn in Jews despite there apparently being only one rabbi active in all Iceland (and he only arrived in 2018). An eerily large share of U.S. diplomatic power within Iceland the past few years appears to devoted to propping up that one rabbi, recently arrived, and the tiny number of Jews in Iceland.

Swinging back directly to the proposed Holocaust Denial ban: I find no evidence of any direct pressure from the US to put in a specific, legal, punishable ban on Holocaust Denial. But there is always some degree of background pressure at work and these announcements give a taste for what it is. (Those familiar with what the U.S. State Department does around the world, certainly as of the 2010s and now 2020s, this diplomatic line is certainly not unique to Iceland.) There is obviously no greater diplomatic force in Iceland than Washington's; given the thousands of expatriate Poles in Iceland, Poland also punches far above its weight.

Something like this still requires local initiative, which has finally materialized in a unique set of circumstances. Local forces, like Holocaust Denial Ban pusher Rosa Björk Brynjolfsdottir (and some or all of the nine other supporters), will see some benefit in pushing the Holocaust and a Denial Ban, knowing they are operating with powerful friends.

GeorgeG
Member
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:52 pm

Re: Ten members of Iceland Parliament propose bill to criminalize Holocaust Denial (with fines/jail): Why are they doing

Postby GeorgeG » 2 years 4 months ago (Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:34 pm)

Of course they are trying to control and pollute every corner of the globe including seemingly pure and innocent Iceland.

GeorgeG
Member
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2020 9:52 pm

Re: Ten members of Iceland Parliament propose bill to criminalize Holocaust Denial (with fines/jail): Why are they doing

Postby GeorgeG » 2 years 4 months ago (Wed Jan 27, 2021 2:53 pm)

It would be good to see which of them is actually jewish but if any are that coudl be being kept secret.
Also their histories re zionism, ie support of Israel and world zionism.
IT does say in the translation of this link https://www.ruv.is/persona/rosa-bjork-brynjolfsdottir
that she supported Iceland being a willing participant in war on Iraq which was clearly a zionist war.

Alternatively they are political whores supporting who they think has the most power and also prob getting rewarded by the lobby.
Most likely there is stuff going on locally along the lines of what is revealed in "The Lobby UK" which is still on youtube surprisingly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceCOhdgRBoc
this very important expose of zionism in UK and zionist methods generally, predicted what happened soon afterwards in UK politics, particularly the zionist takeover of the labour party and successful war on Corbyn.

I dont' know if this violates the forum rules, but I think it's important to understand how the holocaust is promoted and how dissent is bullied into submission which makes this information very relevant to holocaust studies.

User avatar
Lamprecht
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2814
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:32 pm

Re: Ten members of Iceland Parliament propose bill to criminalize Holocaust Denial (with fines/jail): Why are they doing

Postby Lamprecht » 2 years 4 months ago (Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:24 pm)

Sannhet wrote:
Lamprecht wrote:
Why are they pushing a ban on Holocaust Denial?

The goal is to have nowhere on earth capable of hosting this content. [....] They also do not want there to be anywhere to flee for political dissidents. [...] What we know is that once they start they do not stop. If this bill doesn't go through, they will just try again in a few years.

That is a very heavy "They"!

In fact, searching for the "They" is the main reason I wrote this post.

Who is the "They" with this Iceland Holocaust Denial ban law? It's not a cabal of Global Jews.

That would be any people that are opposed to freedom of speech on the so-called "Holocaust" storyline. This includes non-Jews, yes. Some Jews are not even supportive of such laws, at least in the USA where they may fear that violations of the 1st Amendment might eventually harm them as well. Probably most of them just believe that there's so much evidence for the orthodox narrative that they believe that open debate is the best way to promote the position they agree with. These types usually can't name even 3 so-called "extermination camps" with alleged homicidal gas chambers.

The typical excuse is that "Holocaust denial" is a form of "neo-Nazism" or something, trying to bring back National Socialism and foment hatred against Jews. White gentile leftists are some of the most ardent "anti-fascists" and they will often be given the spotlight in Jewish intellectual movements as Kevin Macdonald has proven in his "Culture of Critique" book. There are very few Jews in Iceland, but Icelandic is a very difficult language to learn, and most Icelandic people (over 95%) speak fluent English. So I would expect that all sorts of propaganda from the Anglo-American controlled media would make it over there.

As for the politicians and parties that support this new law, I wonder about their funding sources and if any are foreign in some way. Most of the Icelandic population lives in one city and the median income is comparable to the USA. There's only one Icelandic billionaire, but there is also supposed to be a ban on donations from foreign interests to Icelandic political parties and candidates. There could be loopholes to this, such as by sending money to citizens or companies that then donate to these candidates, but I am not an expert on Icelandic law or political parties. But the very wealthy elites can always find methods to move money around, and we can't forget that in a democracy it is not just the money that is sent to candidates that matters, but who the media companies decide to give favorable coverage to (I am not sure if foreign funding/donations to Icelandic media companies is also banned).

A few years ago these major parties in Iceland also introduced legislation to ban male infant circumcision, a Jewish religious ritual. Maybe someone with money complained about this? The ban was not expected to have any impact at all on non-Jews and non-Muslims, which when combined comprise less than 1% of the population.
Last edited by Lamprecht on Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
— Herbert Spencer


NOTE: I am taking a leave of absence from revisionism to focus on other things. At this point, the ball is in their court to show the alleged massive pits full of human remains at the so-called "extermination camps." After 8 decades they still refuse to do this. I wonder why...

User avatar
Lamprecht
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2814
Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 6:32 pm

Re: Ten members of Iceland Parliament propose bill to criminalize Holocaust Denial (with fines/jail): Why are they doing

Postby Lamprecht » 2 years 4 months ago (Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:32 pm)

GeorgeG wrote:It would be good to see which of them is actually jewish but if any are that coudl be being kept secret.

It's possible that none of them are. In 2018 the official number of Jews in Iceland was 250 and there was only 1 rabbi. About 2/3 of the country's population lives in a region that takes up just 1% of the Island's land-mass. There is a limit to how much an individual can even donate to candidates there.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
— Herbert Spencer


NOTE: I am taking a leave of absence from revisionism to focus on other things. At this point, the ball is in their court to show the alleged massive pits full of human remains at the so-called "extermination camps." After 8 decades they still refuse to do this. I wonder why...

Merlin300
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 337
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:21 pm

CODOH on it

Postby Merlin300 » 2 years 3 months ago (Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:39 pm)

I totally agree that the bill to Extend of Article 233 of the Penal Code to include Historical Discussion was introduced by misinformed members of the Althing who think they are "fighting Nazis."
FYI is the brief that CODOH sent.
Please note that the bill has not even been assigned to committee yet. The time to speak and write polite letters will be in a few months.


Brief in Opposition to the Extension of Article 233 of the Penal Code to include Historical Discussion
The Honorable Rósa Björk Brynjólfsdóttir, MP introduced Bill 772 to add paragraph 233.c to Article 233 to the General Penal Code. The proposed expansion reads,
Anyone who publicly denies, grossly disregards, or attempts to justify or accept genocide perpetrated by the German Nazi Party during World War II shall be subject to fines or imprisonment for up to 2 years.

The expansion crosses a clear line in civil liberties law
Some claim that the addition of discussion of history subjects would not be "too far diverged from existing Icelandic law ." 1. That is incorrect.
This extension crosses the clear line established by Article 73 of the Icelandic Constitution.2. Article 73 states that, Censorship and other comparable restrictions on the freedom of expression must never be enacted.
The only exceptions are, “interests of public order, national security, the protection of health or morals,… the protection of the reputation or the rights of others…” The application of most of these exceptions to debate on historical subjects clearly do not to apply. “[P]rotection of the reputation or the rights of others” do not apply either for reasons given below.
Importantly, the proscription must be, “necessary and consistent with democratic tradition.” I do not think anyone can argue that banning obscure historical books is necessary in any meaningful sense of the word.
And, unless Iceland has a tradition of banning books that I have not found, this legislation is a dangerous first for Iceland.
Respectfully, the esteemed members of the Althing should carefully consider whether the proposed law meets the standards set by Article 73.


Background on Revisionist views
In November 2010 CODOH founder Bradley Smith wrote to the Holocaust Education Trust of Ireland (HETI) asking to be allowed to attend a conference entitled International Conference on Anti-Semitism and Holocaust Denial. He wanted to attend the conference for the purpose of contributing to people's understanding of Revisionism and to speak in support of the necessity, in a free society, of an open exchange of ideas in an environment of good will.

"Although it is standard practice to defame Revisionists as 'anti-Semites who claim the Holocaust is just Jewish propaganda,' that is not what we at CODOH argue. Briefly, we believe that much of that history that we are taught today has been influenced by Soviet, British and American wartime propaganda which exaggerated and exploited real tragedies for propaganda purposes. This concerns not just Jews but Slavs, Roma, Jehovah’s Witnesses and, in some versions, Gays. It can be argued that there is considerable research that supports this point of view."
Unfortunately, the HETI did not allow any Revisionist to talk or even attend the conference but Bradley's description of Revisionism still remains correct.

Changes in History Textbooks?
As Bradley Smith suggested, the good faith and reasonableness of Revisionists can best be shown by the truth of our arguments. If our suggested changes to history textbooks are more accurate than the "official history," (generally as presented at the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg) then criminalizing our right to publish is an obvious mistake for Iceland.
One recent example of revisionism is the continually changing history of Majdanek Camp in Poland. http://auschwitz.org/en/museum/news/maj ... ks,44.html. . While it is not mentioned in the State Museum article, the figure presented in post-War trials was 1,400,000 deaths at Majdanek. The current revised figure is 78,000. While so many deaths is of course a horrible tragedy, it is a major revision to the “history created by the victors.” When Auschwitz State Museum asks for changes in history textbooks, how can the members of the Althing criminalize such changes?
Scholarly works like Jean-Claude Pressac's Technique and Operation, Guenter Lewy's The Nazi Persecution of the Gypsies, 3. and Danuta Czech's Auschwitz Chronicles show that Holocaust history has been revised and will continue to be revised since the Nuremberg International Military Tribunal. CODOH respectfully suggests the proposed law is significantly in conflict with current scholarly history.

Democratic Tradition
In the United States political speech and publication are given particular protection both as fundamental rights but also as the keystone protection of all civil liberties. CODOH respectfully suggests that “democratic tradition,” as written in Article 73 does, or should, clearly include an appreciation of the importance of free speech and a free press as a bulwark of democracy. This appreciation is firmly part of the democratic tradition of the United States and England but not part of the tradition of Russia or Germany. CODOH suggests that following the more liberal tradition of Iceland’s English speaking neighbors is the wisest course and consistent with Iceland’s robust democratic traditions.

Holocaust Revisionism is not "Hate Speech."
As we all know, History is never gotten right the first time around. This is particularly true in times of war or social conflicts. Revisionism is simply the intellectual process of rereading history. CODOH argues that all history is, or should be, subject to review and revision. As a principle, history should be as accurate as humanly possible.
Reviewing history is directed at falsehood, not at any race, nationality, religion, or ethnic group. Neither is it meant to threaten or insult anyone. Thus,
neither the reputation or the rights of others are wronged by a review of history.

Keep history honest
George Orwell made the observation on the importance of history, “ He who controls the Past controls the Future; he who controls the Present controls the past.” CODOH feels that the disappearance of objective history is a frightening threat to democracy. We feel that it is in everyone's interest to keep history honest.

The best way to defeat hatred and prejudice
CODOH members believe the best way to defeat hatred and prejudice is by honest and open discussion. Censorship and criminalization of speech and debate will encourage a climate of intolerance. Therefore, we would like the government of Iceland to consider encouraging dialogue and research on historical subjects. We recommend expanding Free Speech, not censorship.
The enemies of tolerance and diversity are not always the same. Nor are their targets. However, one certain sign of bigotry is the unwillingness to listen to the other, or to allow the other to speak. Please keep Iceland from going down that path.


Respectfully Submitted by Committee for Open Debate on the Holocaust

1. https://grapevine.is/news/2021/01/21/mp ... denialism/

2. Article 73
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and belief. Everyone shall be free to express his thoughts, but shall also be liable to answer for them in court. The law may never provide for censorship or other similar limitations to freedom of expression. Freedom of expression may only be restricted by law in the interests of public order or the security of the State, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights or reputation of others, if such restrictions are deemed necessary and in agreement with democratic traditions. [emp. Added]

3. by arguing that the Nazi regime never formulated a plan to annihilate this minority, he [Professor Lewy] disagrees with most previous scholarship. https://networks.h-net.org/node/35008/r ... on-gypsies
Under the proposed expansion Professor Lewy would be subject to prosecution.

Ligurian
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:00 pm

Re: Ten members of Iceland Parliament propose bill to criminalize Holocaust Denial (with fines/jail): Why are they doing

Postby Ligurian » 2 years 3 months ago (Thu Feb 18, 2021 3:34 pm)

Sannhet wrote:Why are they pushing a ban on Holocaust Denial?


If I had to guess, I'd say the entire reason for the ban is to test the water and see if more of us are ready for the next step. They know they can't control everyone until most everyone has already been brainwashed. They're trying it out on a small stage to see what our reaction is currently. When that reaction comes up to what they're hoping to see in a larger target area, the penalties phase will complete the brainwashing stage.

It's a religious thing. When their religion is made official, denial will come under the heading of hate speech. (Remember, all religions are supposed to fall under that protective banner. TPTB don't enforce it on the religions of the gentiles.) But at what point will people begin to see that icon which has been staring us in the face for 76 years? The authority of this beast is given to him by that icon. They're doing all they can to protect the icon and keep power. Many people are already wearing the idol of the little head on their lapels.

User avatar
Hektor
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 5169
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:59 am

Re: Ten members of Iceland Parliament propose bill to criminalize Holocaust Denial (with fines/jail): Why are they doing

Postby Hektor » 2 years 3 months ago (Fri Feb 26, 2021 1:05 pm)

Ligurian wrote:
Sannhet wrote:Why are they pushing a ban on Holocaust Denial?


If I had to guess, I'd say the entire reason for the ban is to test the water and see if more of us are ready for the next step. They know they can't control everyone until most everyone has already been brainwashed. They're trying it out on a small stage to see what our reaction is currently. When that reaction comes up to what they're hoping to see in a larger target area, the penalties phase will complete the brainwashing stage.

It's a religious thing. When their religion is made official, denial will come under the heading of hate speech. (Remember, all religions are supposed to fall under that protective banner. TPTB don't enforce it on the religions of the gentiles.) But at what point will people begin to see that icon which has been staring us in the face for 76 years? The authority of this beast is given to him by that icon. They're doing all they can to protect the icon and keep power. Many people are already wearing the idol of the little head on their lapels.


While "Holocaust Denial" ban was mostly pushed by Jewish groups and their collaborators, this was also done with more in mind. Essentially it is about the suppression of any independent thought that doesn't have the approval of the ideological elites and globalist groups. The left, Jews and NWO-supporters draw on this issue into the same direction.

Recall the purges on youtube, first it was "Holocaust Denial", then it was "White Supremacy" later "White Nationalism" and for the moment it is "Conspiracy Theories" and "Coronacaust Denial". It starts with a breach using something that doesn't have wide-spread support and is seen as fringe, after which they expand this kind of suppression more and more. Interestingly they seem only to do 90% purges, leaving some alone as to make the purge not too obvious of the public mind. It's enough to keep it look like the view of a tiny minority of the lunatic fringe. Of course they know they can not suppress it completely with the present means and the best they can achieve is to suppress it mostly. It's even an advantage to leave some around making them look like the view of a powerless splinter group. If they can make them look repulsive, the better it works. Mind you this isn't about removing the information, but conditioning the public to reject this information as "false and repulsive". That's why it is so important to convey the message in a sober manner. Quite difficult, when outrageous claims are actually preposterous. This is why I sometimes think that the history of their claims should be presented first. Since it's rather dubious when the initial sources are propaganda outlets or psychological warfare units. Dubious as well is the fact that this is omitted when those claims are presented as "horrible facts of history".

Recently I started to wonder, whether the increase in cheating and lying by the establishment won't ultimately lead to the downfall of most of their lies they hold so dear.

tyger
Member
Member
Posts: 73
Joined: Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:32 am

Re: Ten members of Iceland Parliament propose bill to criminalize Holocaust Denial (with fines/jail): Why are they doing

Postby tyger » 2 years 3 months ago (Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:43 am)

Iceland is an increasingly important centre for server farms. Cheap electricity and, just as important, cheap cooling. My bet is that such a law would be used to make hosting "non-compliant" information illegal.

User avatar
Hektor
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 5169
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:59 am

Re: Ten members of Iceland Parliament propose bill to criminalize Holocaust Denial (with fines/jail): Why are they doing

Postby Hektor » 2 years 2 months ago (Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:13 pm)

tyger wrote:Iceland is an increasingly important centre for server farms. Cheap electricity and, just as important, cheap cooling. My bet is that such a law would be used to make hosting "non-compliant" information illegal.


And I can imagine that they were told ... or rather let known: "Do that, or..... we take our business elsewhere"....

At presented it's the big fish trying to screw on the smaller ones using cancel culture and well, their weight in business transaction as well as proximity to government officials and politicians. Seems they're trying everything short of: We-just-confiscate-your-stuff.

I see the scamdemic and lockdowns in the same light.


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests