Is Zyklon B explosive ? New Germar Rudolf Video

[Breker]

Blake, you said:

This is a challenge to you which you must answer or leave the thread by CODOH rules. Do you agree that the scenario of opening up 10s of the largest Zyklon cans at each of the 4 holes (about a ton of material weight altogether) in the roof is a ridiculous scenario that would never have been done by the Germans? You must answer this question or leave the thread. If you think it is, then your explosiveness claim is bogus. If you think this WOULD have been done, you need your head examined.

Mr. Blake, you really should read the forum's guidelines. I have made no "claims or assertions" for which I am being challenged. You have simply invented a story then challenge me on it.

Here you go, from: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=358

"No 'dodging'. When questioned or challenged on claims, or assertions you make in a thread you must respond directly / specifically by providing the information requested in the challenge or you must leave the topic."

The rest of your bizarre post is essentially a continued dodge of my many previous points. In fact, it is I who should invoke the 'no dodging' rule.

you said:

Oh the explosion danger! THAT'S the thing to stress.

Thank you. Yes, I have stressed the explosion danger, over and over again.

Here's a great example of the explosion danger.


to repeat:

So now we have:

explosion potential
poisoned air potential
extreme costs
the denial of the much more efficient and readily available sarin & tabun

Are you sure you want to keep going on about this? It appears you are struggling.
B.

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

That LIFE magazine "cyanide explosion" image from 1947 actually undermines the entire argument of Faurisson-Leuchter. The adjacent houses, or buildings, were totally unaffected, Sure, the building being fumigated blew-up--but nothing else! Why? Why didn't nearby houses blow up, or burst into flame, as well? Why didn't much of LA, or wherever, blow up as well?

The answer is simple enough and Germar Rudolf gave the answer in part also. The cyanide concentrations would have been severely diluted before the cyanide got to any of those other buildings, or structures--and that applies to the Kremas as well. Was there a forty-feet high chimney on the building being fumigated to "safely" disdperse any excess gas? Of course, not.

The Faurisson-Leuchter mythomania has failed. Good Riddance!

FPBerg

[Breker]

That LIFE magazine "cyanide explosion" image from 1947 actually undermines the entire argument of Faurisson-Leuchter. The adjacent houses, or buildings, were totally unaffected, Sure, the building being fumigated blew-up--but nothing else! Why? Why didn't nearby houses blow up, or burst into flame, as well? Why didn't much of LA, or wherever, blow up as well?

The answer is simple enough and Germar Rudolf gave the answer in part also. The cyanide concentrations would have been severely diluted before the cyanide got to any of those other buildings, or structures--and that applies to the Kremas as well. Was there a forty-feet high chimney on the building being fumigated to "safely" disdperse any excess gas? Of course, not.
FPBerg

Seriously, Mr. Berg?

You really said this? "Why didn't nearby houses blow up, or burst into flame, as well?"

Because the other houses were not pumped with large amounts of cyanide, that's why.
And to avoid any leakage issues the house was wrapped up, see photo.

covered before exploding:

after cyanide explosion:

http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/1.html#1.2

Mr. Berg, the high heat emitting crematorium were essentially right on top of the alleged gas chambers at kremas II-III. There would have been practically no distance for the gas to travel.
Your misuse of Mr. Rudolf has failed you.

Your support grunt, Mr. Blake, even admitted:

Rudolf thinks that over 70-80 times the typical fumigation amount of Zyklon would have had to been laid for the alleged HGC scenario and that that ridiculously large amount might have risked explosion.

And as for Auschwitz I, Mr. Rudolf stated that the risk was increased.
Please review video.
Please review my posts for a lengthy list of other factors that are being avoided, which support Dr. Faurisson and Mr. Leuchter.

Mr. Berg, with all due respect, I suggest your have painted yourself into a corner and problems of pride have you remaining there.
B.

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

Breker is consistently wrong. Kremas 2 and 3 were NOT "essentially right on top of the alleged gas chambers at kremas II-III." They were off to the side--and NOT directly above at all. Why does Breker LIE like that?

Of course, the fumigated building was wrapped but who can really be sure that it was perfectly tight? Why would the real possibility of leakage of cyanide be any less than the possiblity of an explosion?

Breker keeps making a fool of himself--just like Faurisson and Leuchter. Were gas chambers for cats ever "impossible." Accidents happen--get used to it.

FPBerg

[Breker]

Berg, you childishly said:

Breker is consistently wrong. Kremas 2 and 3 were NOT "essentially right on top of the alleged gas chambers at kremas II-III." They were off to the side--and NOT directly above at all. Why does Breker LIE like that?

Of course, the fumigated building was wrapped but who can really be sure that it was perfectly tight? Why would the real possibility of leakage of cyanide be any less than the possiblity of an explosion?

No one said "directly on top", who is now lying, Berg?


from: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3249
Ouch!!

"Essentially" it would not have mattered anyway.
The required massive amounts of cyanide gas could have easily entered into the crematorium via the hand drawn elevator shaft, which you ignored, or what is more likely, you just forgot about.
In addition, for the massive cyanide gas to have traveled to the dangerous high heat crematorium would have been nothing, the distance would have been less than to the very back of the alleged "gas chamber".

And at Auschwitz I we merely had a flimsy, non-airtight door between the alleged gassing areas and the high heat emitting crematorium. Hence Mr. Rudolf's video statement about it's increased dangers, which you dodged, of course. Please review the video.

And of course you dodge the alleged release of cyanide into the open area next to the alleged "gas chambers" where the "waiting Jews" and German personnel would have been in danger.

I note your desperate: "Of course, the fumigated building was wrapped but who can really be sure that it was perfectly tight?"
Admit it, you had no clue that the house had been wrapped and are now trying to extract yourself with an "of course". Funny stuff really.
But the answer to that question is simple, no other houses or buildings were damaged !!, as you, Berg, stated in your previous post.

And Berg, you dodged these, of course:

So now we have:

explosion potential
poisoned air potential
extreme costs
the denial of the much more efficient and readily available sarin & tabun

I suggest you actually review my posts for more.

Dr. Faurisson & Mr. Leuchter have you and there's no way out for you short of throwing in the towel.
Be a gentleman for a change, and by all means, stop embarrassing yourself.

"Pride goeth before a fall".

Best, B.

[blake121666]

The "massive amounts" you are referring to can be rejected out of hand. They would require way more Zyklon than any reasonable person would agree would be used. How do you not get that?

I see nothing about your "tons" being used at that house site.
In fact to think of such an absurdity implies that those who caused the problem were literally pumping the stuff into the house from a container as big as the Hindenburg. Very humorous, Mr. Blake. Very costly for the pesticide company.

I am referring to the equivalent in the scenario we are talking about here: fumigating a room for 15 minutes with Zyklon-B. NOT pumping a large quantity of HCN from a tank into a house for hours. Is it registering in your head yet? The equivalent to our scenario of that house having an 8% concentration of HCN in air in it is a big krema having 8% HCN concentration in air in it after 10% outgassing. Do you see what that means? I didn't actually do the calculation of course; but here it is:

8% = 80,000 ppm = 96 g/m^3.

96 g/m^3 * 500 m^3 * 10 = 480 kg.

A 2 kg can of Zyklon weighs about 6 kg (2 kg HCN + about 2.25 kg material + about 1.75 kg can). So 480 kg HCN from Zyklon would require 1440 kg (3175 lbs) of material (240 2-kg cans - each can weighing 6 kg). The largest Zyklon can was 2 kg, that is why I am referring to things this way.

3175 lbs is not technically "tons" it is only 1.6 tons. Does it make any difference? If it were only 1/2 ton would you think THAT was reasonable? These 240 cans spread over 4 holes would be 4 persons each opening 60 cans at each hole and dumping the zyklon down them. Talking about the fact that this would result in an explosion risk is arguing how many angels dance on pinheads. NO ONE would accept this scenario as having occurred. These "massive quantities" that would risk explosion would never ever in anyone's imagination ever be done this way. So why pretend that it would?

This calculation is based on the assumption that the HCN is evenly distributed within the space. Rudolf points out in the video, that the "explosion limit would have been exceeded close to the carrier material, without some form of air circulation". Especially assuming that the Sonderkommando went in a few minutes after the gassings.

He says the same thing in the Rudolf report:

...In another affidavit made on April 30, 1993, Körber asserted falsely that Rudolf supported

“the Leuchter thesis that there was a danger of explosion throughout the Auschwitz compound, at least for structures, whenever gassing operations with Zyklon B were going on.”

Rudolf had in fact stated that the use of high concentrations of Zy-klon B to reduce execution periods to minutes or seconds, as the wit-
nesses had reported, would mean that there would be safety problems due to explosive concentrations of hydrogen cyanide (see chapter 6.3.). He had never spoken nor written of a general danger of explosion. The busy witness Körber was at it again on May 26, 1993...

http://holocausthandbooks.com/dl/02-trr.pdf

Yes, you are correct. I have made the assumption that the dissipation rate outweighs the evaporation rate w.r.t. possible build-ups. Given that we are over 10 times away from any reasonable scenario that might have occurred (70-80 times fumigation amounts), this hand-waving argument is applicable. You aren't going to get explosion concerns in any reasonable assumption of quantities of Zyklon that might have been laid in the room in the manner as alleged. At what point does the amount become silly? 2 big cans through each hole? 3 big cans? When talking about 10s of cans, we are in the ridiculously silly range. I accept your point though.

[Dresden]

Fritz Berg said:

"Accidents happen--get used to it"

Now you're catching on, Mr. Berg!

I think that's what some people on this thread are trying to tell you.

Accidents happen.....explosions happen.

[Breker]

Such elegant simplicity, Mr. Steve F.

Blake says to us:

You aren't going to get explosion concerns in any reasonable assumption of quantities of Zyklon that might have been laid in the room in the manner as alleged.

Is that "reasonable" amount of cyanide why this house blew up?

the house that cyanide destroyed


Berg said:

Accidents happen--get used to it

Precisely, as that blown up house attests.

IOW, as Dr. Faurisson and Mr. Leuchter have stated, the Germans would have never have used such a risky accident prone substance and procedure.
B.

[Zulu]

"In industry" and "in ordinary use," potentially dangerous and even explosive substances are used ALL THE TIME. Isn't gasoline potentially "explosive?" Isn't lighter fluid for igniting cigaretes "explosive?" Isn't natural gas for cooking in millions of ordinary kitchens potentially "explosive" as well.

What kind of make-believe world are you living in, Breker, or Zulu, or Faurisson, or Leuchter, etc.?

FPBerg

Well, in many European countries, when you put gasoline in your tank, you must stop your engine and put out your cigarette. In the industries there are rules when you manipulate such dangerous substances.

[Free Speech]

Don’t drop the ‘bomb’ without safety check

Total release foggers—sometimes called “bug bombs”—are pesticide sprays that release all their contents at once. The spray button locks into place, releasing the contents upwards, filling the air with pesticide. Spray droplets (a fine aerosol, not a fog) remain suspended for a while before gradually settling onto floors, countertops and other surfaces.

Read the label--prevent explosions

Foggers are so simple to use that people sometimes forget they contain highly flammable materials that can make these “bug bombs” literally into bombs. Foggers cause an estimated 500 fires and explosions a year in the U.S. Accidents usually happen when people use too many foggers for the space they are treating, leading to a dangerous buildup of flammable vapors. These vapors can be ignited by pilot lights (in a stove or water heater, for example), or by a spark from an electrical appliance that cycles on and off (for example, a refrigerator, air conditioner or thermostat).

When you use a fogger, turn off ALL ignition sources. Call your gas utility if you need help with pilot lights. Also, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency recommends that you put the fogger at least six feet from all ignition sources.

Source: http://www.cdpr.ca.gov/docs/dept/factshts/fog2.pdf

Turn off all flames and pilot lights.

Do not use in small areas like a closet, cabinet, or under a counter or table.

Do not use in a room smaller than 5’x5’. Instead, allow the fog from another room to enter the smaller room.

Do not use more than one fogger per room.

Using the product without taking these precautions may cause the product to explode, possibly resulting in injury to you and your home.

Preparation for Fogging:

Close doors and windows.

Extinguish all flames and turn off your fan, air conditioner and pilot light. If you are not sure how to do this, contact your gas management company.

Source: http://www.raidkillsbugs.com/en-us/prod ... how-to-use

Gassings did not happen as alleged, too dangerous, only relatively safe way would be with a circulation device.

[Breker]

Here we go gents, ladies, a boat load more on the dangers of cyanide
http://www.fao.org/docrep/x5042e/x5042e0b.htm

FLAMMABILITY

The flammability limits of HCN in air lie botween 6 and 41 percent by volume. These limits are well above the normally recommended fumigation doses of up to 1.5 percent (16 g/m³ or 16 oz/l 000 ft³). However, it must be pointed out that, at the point of release of the gas at the beginning of a fumigation, a concentration within these limits may exist for a short length of time. If there is any flame (such as a pilot light) or sparks near temporary high concentrations, a serious fire or explosion could occur. In working with this fumigant, great care must be exercised to extinguish all flames and turn of all electric switches before a treatment begins.

"What did they say? "... a serious fire or explosion could occur.""

TOXICITY

HCN is a powerful, quick acting poison. In humans and other warm-blooded animals it induces asphyxiation by inhibiting the respiratory enzymes and renders tissues unable to absorb oxygen from the blood in the normal manner. The toxic action is reversible. In practice, this means that a person who is completely unconscious from the effects of cyanide, but whose heart is still beating, may still recover if suitable antidotes nod remedial measures are applied in time. HCN may be absorbed in toxic amounts through the unbroken skin (see below under "Precautions").

and these:

Hazardous Substance Fact Sheet - State of New Jersey
nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1013.pdf
New Jersey
Hydrogen Cyanide is on the Right to Know Hazardous. Substance ... explosion hazards and can polymerize violently, resulting in ..... Molecular Formula: HCN.
==
Hydrogen Cyanide - Centers for Disease Control and ...
http://www.cdc.gov/.../E...
United States Centers for Disease Control and Preve...
Jun 18, 2013 - Exposure to hydrogen cyanide (AC) can be rapidly fatal. .... Run-off to sewers may create an explosion hazard. ..... HCN; Aqueous solubility ...
==
http://utslappisiffror.naturvardsverket ... n-cyanide/
It is strongly flammable and it is a potentially explosive hazard when mixed with air.
==
Prudent Practices for Handling Hazardous Chemicals in ...
books.google.com/books?id=3jcrAAAAYAAJ
Assembly of Mathematical and Physical Sciences (U.S.). Committee on Hazardous Substances in the Laboratory - 1981 - ‎Chemical laboratories
Hazards from Fire, Explosion, or Uncontrolled Polymerization Because of its low flash point and wide range of explosive mixtures, HCN presents a serious fire and exposiosion hazard ...

Berg, Blake, please surrender graciously, you are overmatched.
B.

[blake121666]

http://www.whatsinsidescjohnson.com/us/ ... ach-fogger

Ingredients:
Butane
Propane
Isobutane
Ethanol
Petroleum Distillate
Fragrance

Shooting concentrated butane, propane, isobutane, ethanol, petroleum distillate, and fragrance out at high speed is definitely NOT akin to HCN evaporating off a carrier - no matter how fast we imagine that might have occurred in this alleged HGC scenario.

Humorous post!

You'd need 7-8 times typical fumigation quantities to risk explosion after hours of outgassing. About 70-80 times that amount after 10% outgassing. Unless you can dream up some way the outgassed HCN decides to bunch up into a small space (contrary to the thousands of fumigations experience), the explosion hazard is not there.

How many times the amount used in a typical fumigation enters into the silly range of what we are talking about? 10 times? Would 10 times risk explosion in 15 minutes? Not a chance!

[Breker]

Blake, you continue to stumble, hilariously so.
You said about 'Raid':

You'd need 7-8 times typical fumigation quantities to risk explosion after hours of outgassing.

But earlier you admitted:

Rudolf thinks that over 70-80 times the typical fumigation amount of Zyklon would have had to been laid for the alleged HGC scenario and that that ridiculously large amount might have risked explosion.

Then you continued your fall with:

How many times the amount used in a typical fumigation enters into the silly range of what we are talking about? 10 times?

When all it would take would be 1 time, your "10 times" is quite a lot for the Germans to have tolerated, which they would not have. "10 times"! I repeat "10 times"! There would have went Auschwitz-Birkenau !

On the "How many times?" Well at least this many times.


Now it is time for you to stopping dodging my challenges to you and Berg.
Such as:

Not to mention the poisoning factor when opening the doors of the alleged gas chambers, allowing the poisonous cyanide to threaten all the Jews supposedly waiting outside & allegedly being tricked that they were about to get a shower, some trickery that would have been. Plus the dangers to German staff in the area.

and:

And at Auschwitz I we merely had a flimsy, non-airtight door between the alleged gassing areas and the high heat emitting crematorium. Hence Mr. Rudolf's video statement about it's increased dangers, which you dodged, of course. Please review the video.

and:

So now we have:
explosion potential
poisoned air potential
extreme costs
the denial of the much more efficient and readily available sarin & tabun

and:

Here we go gents, ladies, a boat load more on the dangers of cyanide
http://www.fao.org/docrep/x5042e/x5042e0b.htm

FLAMMABILITY

The flammability limits of HCN in air lie botween 6 and 41 percent by volume. These limits are well above the normally recommended fumigation doses of up to 1.5 percent (16 g/m³ or 16 oz/l 000 ft³). However, it must be pointed out that, at the point of release of the gas at the beginning of a fumigation, a concentration within these limits may exist for a short length of time. If there is any flame (such as a pilot light) or sparks near temporary high concentrations, a serious fire or explosion could occur. In working with this fumigant, great care must be exercised to extinguish all flames and turn of all electric switches before a treatment begins.

TOXICITY

HCN is a powerful, quick acting poison. In humans and other warm-blooded animals it induces asphyxiation by inhibiting the respiratory enzymes and renders tissues unable to absorb oxygen from the blood in the normal manner. The toxic action is reversible. In practice, this means that a person who is completely unconscious from the effects of cyanide, but whose heart is still beating, may still recover if suitable antidotes nod remedial measures are applied in time. HCN may be absorbed in toxic amounts through the unbroken skin (see below under "Precautions").

and these:

Hazardous Substance Fact Sheet - State of New Jersey
nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/1013.pdf
New Jersey
Hydrogen Cyanide is on the Right to Know Hazardous. Substance ... explosion hazards and can polymerize violently, resulting in ..... Molecular Formula: HCN.
==
Hydrogen Cyanide - Centers for Disease Control and ...
http://www.cdc.gov/.../E...
United States Centers for Disease Control and Preve...
Jun 18, 2013 - Exposure to hydrogen cyanide (AC) can be rapidly fatal. .... Run-off to sewers may create an explosion hazard. ..... HCN; Aqueous solubility ...
==
http://utslappisiffror.naturvardsverket ... n-cyanide/
It is strongly flammable and it is a potentially explosive hazard when mixed with air.
==
Prudent Practices for Handling Hazardous Chemicals in ...
books.google.com/books?id=3jcrAAAAYAAJ
Assembly of Mathematical and Physical Sciences (U.S.). Committee on Hazardous Substances in the Laboratory - 1981 - ‎Chemical laboratories
Hazards from Fire, Explosion, or Uncontrolled Polymerization Because of its low flash point and wide range of explosive mixtures, HCN presents a serious fire and exposiosion hazard ...

"Overmatched" indeed.
B.

[blake121666]

Blake, you continue to stumble, hilariously so.
You said about 'Raid':

You'd need 7-8 times typical fumigation quantities to risk explosion after hours of outgassing.

But earlier you admitted:

Rudolf thinks that over 70-80 times the typical fumigation amount of Zyklon would have had to been laid for the alleged HGC scenario and that that ridiculously large amount might have risked explosion.

"after hours of outgassing" is the pertinent part of that quote of mine. 10% of that outgassing would be 1/10th that amount. You'd need 10 times as much as the 10% outgassing. Are you for real, Breker?

Then you continued your fall with:

When all it would take would be 1 time, your "10 times" is quite a lot for the Germans to have tolerated, which they would not have. "10 times"! I repeat "10 times"! There would have went Auschwitz-Birkenau !

You are saying that using 1 times the amount of a full hours-long fumigation would risk explosion in 15 minutes? Do you even know what you are saying? 1 times the amount of an hours-long fumigation has NEVER resulted in any explosion in the hours of outgassing. You think it would risk explosion in 15 minutes?

It isn't even "10 times" that Rudolf is alluding to in his video. He is talking about over 100 times in that video. Do you get that point? He is implying that 4 people must have stood on the roof opening 10s of 2-kg cans of zyklon and dumping them through each of the 4 holes in the roof. Has that point alluded you all this time?

The discussion is over. The Germans did not use 70-80 times the amount of Zyklon used in a typical fumigation to risk explosion in any of these alleged gassings. THAT is the point. Possible explosion dangers of using 70-80 times typical fumigation amounts is not realistic and therefore doesn't enter into any consideration of the case we are dealing with.

This latest post of yours leads me to believe that you think ANY amount of Zyklon would be dangerously explosive. Many thousands of fumigations with it prove you wrong.

[Breker]

Blake you said:

"after hours of outgassing" is the pertinent part of that quote of mine. 10% of that outgassing would be 1/10th that amount. You'd need 10 times as much as the 10% outgassing. Are you for real, Breker?

Quite for real, as is this house explosion, caused by cyanide.


Then you continued your fall with:

When all it would take would be 1 time, your "10 times" is quite a lot for the Germans to have tolerated, which they would not have. "10 times"! I repeat "10 times"! There would have went Auschwitz-Birkenau !

Again, Mr. Rudolf says:

that over 70-80 times the typical fumigation amount of Zyklon would have had to been laid for the alleged HGC scenario

Next.

You said:

1 times the amount of an hours-long fumigation has NEVER resulted in any explosion in the hours of outgassing. You think it would risk explosion in 15 minutes?

Because regular fumigations would not have generally created a problem. The massive amounts necessary if gassing had occurred would result in explosions. They are not the same, you are comparing apples & oranges, just like Berg. Please follow along.

you said:

The discussion is over. The Germans did not use 70-80 times the amount of Zyklon used in a typical fumigation to risk explosion in any of these alleged gassings. THAT is the point. Possible explosion dangers of using 70-80 times typical fumigation amounts is not realistic and therefore doesn't enter into any consideration of the case we are dealing with.

Of course that much wasn't used, there were no gassings as alleged. Yet the author of this video , Mr. Rudolf, who you cite, says that that is the amount that would been necessary if they had occurred. You are very confused.

doubling down, you try:

This latest post of yours leads me to believe that you think ANY amount of Zyklon would be dangerously explosive. Many thousands of fumigations with it prove you wrong.

Now you're trying another strawman, I never said any such thing. Please stop.
And of course, because the many "thousands of fumigations" NEVER involved the amounts that Mr. Rudolf stated would have been necessary if they did. .
"70-80 times the typical fumigation" would have been needed if the narrative was true. You just can't get passed what Mr. Rudof has said. Too bad for your side.
And given the lack of significant cyanide residue in the alleged "gas chambers", I rather seriously doubt there were "thousands of fumigations" in them to begin with. Oops!

"The discussion is over" because you have run out of strawmen and refuse to stop dodging the veritable flood of facts I have posted.

Kudos to Dr. Faurisson and Mr. Leuchter. A big laugh at yourself and the embarrassed Berg.
B.