Auschwitz I chimney on Holocaust Memorial Day

[Radar]

I agree Turpitz. It always seemed counterintuitive to add additional walls and rooms to a bomb shelter when the situation of an air raid requires quick egress into the shelter. Adding additional rooms and choke points for a place designed to have people rushing in quickly doesn't make sense. I see your point and would have no problem believing the original structure had those walls, not the bomb shelter.

When the Poles "reconstructed" the building after WW II, they made a quite embarrasing mistake: By removing the partition walls, which divided the former mortuary in four rooms, they went "one wall too far", i.e. they removed also the wall to the washing room (No. 4 at: http://www.vho.org/D/gzz/RudolfKIHEUTE.gif and according to this "new [too large] gas chamber" they placed the "Zyklon B - holes" on the roof (No. 2 in the plan at above named URL), so that they are placed in a proper way for the too large room, which never existed in the "German time" of the building, but in the wrong way for the former mortuary, which they want us make to believe was used as a homicidal "gas chamber".

This is important. If I read this correctly it says the Soviets reconstructed Zyklon chutes in places where the alleged gas chamber room didn't exist. Since they claimed to have broken open the imprints from the previously filled in holes, it means those holes were in the wrong place, therefore somebody is lying. They placed chutes over a portion of the gas chamber that was really a separate room at that time. There would be no reason for any Zyklon chute imprints on the roof over a non-gas chamber room.

[Breker]

from Reinhard

No. 4 on the second plan I've posted above is the alleged "gas chamber". You will notice that there is no door from outside.
This door (through which Cole entered and which is presented today as the door to the gas chamber) wasn't built until October 1944 (no. 1 on the right side on the bottom of the first plan posted above), while the crematorium (in July 1943) and the "gas chamber" (in March 1942) had already been put out of service for a long time (according to Pressac).
So, the "victims" only could have entered the "gas chamber" during the time it allegedly was operated through the furnace room, which of course is absurd.

Excellent obsevation. It's really amazing to me how straight forward the revisionist points are. From media statements, one would think that revisionists come up with wild scenarios. Just the opposite is the case.

from Turpitz

What I think people really mean is you cannot bring yourself to believe that these compulsive liars would have the audacity to try such trickery at dire attempts at daylight forgery. Well I suggest they would not have any qualms about using such tactics, after all having dumb-goy as your intended quarry makes it so easy to get away with.

Perhaps a bit blunt, but obviously true. It seems that most people have no idea what their up against. I always enjoy posts from Turpitz, they come from a craftsman's keen eye and sensibilities.

Brecker

[Reinhard]

If I read this correctly it says the Soviets reconstructed Zyklon chutes in places where the alleged gas chamber room didn't exist. Since they claimed to have broken open the imprints from the previously filled in holes, it means those holes were in the wrong place, therefore somebody is lying. They placed chutes over a portion of the gas chamber that was really a separate room at that time. There would be no reason for any Zyklon chute imprints on the roof over a non-gas chamber room.

This plan shows the shape of the crematorium today:

The striped line (No. 4) is the "wall too far" the Poles had removed (the wall to the former washing room). The four alleged "Zyklon-holes" are marked "No. 2". So, they all are indeed placed over the former mortuary (the alleged "gas chamber"), but in a very strange way:
You should expect the holes to be placed in an equal distance to the walls (if you intend to kill people inside this room using Zyklon-pellets, you would attempt to distribute the pellets equally in the room, i.e. you put the holes in the center of the room). If you look at the too large room today, they are put in a proper way, but if you consider the actual length of the room during WW II, you will notice that the first two holes are directly next to the partition wall to the former washing room, which the Poles had removed after the war as well (the "wall too far" - No. 4).

[Radar]

From seeing this there's no doubt the Soviets constructed the Zyklon chutes in virgin roof according to their needs. There's no way any imprint existed for the chutes nearest to the washroom wall.

What we have here is condemning circumstantial evidence that would normally be proof enough in any other case EXCEPT revisionism where courts have irredeemably corrupted themselves for the sake of containing one of the world's greatest hoaxes.


If you look at the diagram it is more than clear that the Nazis would not have built the chutes in any uncentered pattern. They would have centered them for equal distribution. There is no reasonable explanation for grouping them to the left side next to the washroom wall that existed at the time. On the other hand, when looking at the diagram, it becomes clear the clumsy Soviets tried to center the chutes to a chamber they thought resembled the original chamber. They didn't realize they had knocked one too many walls down and were now exposing themselves.

This is irrefutable circumstantial proof of gas chamber fraud.

[Kiwichap]

Radar

This is irrefutable circumstantial proof of gas chamber fraud.

This thread opened my eyes, - thanks guys.

One more thing. Reinhard said re. the conversion into an air-raid shelter

In fall 1944 the former crematorium was converted into an air-raid shelter for the SS-hospital, which was situated across the road (visible at the background of the photograph posted above). Therefore the chimney was dismantled (perhaps this had been done already earlier on), a new entrance leading to an air-lock (on the right side at the bottom on the plans I named in my last post - this entrance today is presented to the visitors as "entrance of the victims to the gas chamber") has been built and the mortuary (the alleged "gas chamber") was divided by partiton walls into four rooms.

So walls were added, BUT

The Auschwitz State Muesum says:

http://www.auschwitz.org.pl/html/eng/hi ... _1_ok.html

After the completion of four crematoria with gas chambers in Auschwitz II-Birkenau, the burning of corpses in Crematorium I was halted. The building was used for storage, and then designated as an SS air-raid shelter.
The furnaces, chimney, and some of the walls were demolished, and the openings in the roof through which the SS poured Zyklon B were plastered.

Whats going on here - were walls added or demolished?

[Kiwichap]

I am starting to suspect authorities who say things like this:

In the summer of 42 - the autumn of this and the spring of that and the early part of 1941.

This is all I get at the Auschwitz State Museum. Do these people not know the date? - a museum for goodness sake. It's a museum of obfuscation.

The reason being: I was trying to align Reinhards dates for the adding of crematorium at Auschwitz 1 to the start and stop dates of gassing at Auschwitz 1. Reinhard says they were added, yearly I guess, 40, 41, 42 and I found out they were taken off-line 43.

But try to find a date when gassing supposedly started in this building. The museum says autumn of 1941. So depending when autumn is in Auschwitz, the building only had 1 perhaps 2 crematorium.

The third was added in 42. Obviously nobody has noticed yet that we are killing tens of thousands upon tens of thousands of people in the courtyard, so we will build one more furnace.

[Radar]

The building was used for storage, and then designated as an SS air-raid shelter.
The furnaces, chimney, and some of the walls were demolished, and the openings in the roof through which the SS poured Zyklon B were plastered.

This doesn't make sense because if you look at the crematorium phase juxtaposed with the bomb shelter phase there are no walls removed for the bomb shelter phase according to the normative version. There are NO walls knocked out according to their plan. Instead there are several partition walls added between the new rooms constructed in the gas chamber.

However, if you reverse the blueprints and make the open gas chamber version the bomb shelter it then makes sense and conforms to the Auschwitz Museum account.


Also, notice this version demolishes the ovens during the conversion. The other account tells us they waited until 1945 to move the ovens to another camp.

[Kiwichap]

Surely the Auschwitz Museum's version of the walls is correct.

They were demolished to make an air-raid shelter - only, they did it after the war was over and managed to make a big gas-chamber at the same time.

If they demolished the walls to make an air-raid shelter, then the walls were up, when it was a gas-chamber. That would mean people were gassed in little rooms.

I wonder if it was alphabetical - A-E in one room...

[Reinhard]

The Auschwitz Museum seems to refer to the partition wall between the mortuary and the furnace room.
This wall consisted of two seperate narrow layers of brickwork seperated by air for insulation (in order to keep the mortuary as cool as possible).
It was removed when the conversion into an air raid shelter took place and replaced by a massive wall. The narrow partition walls between the washroom and the furnace room, the washroom and the morgue and the entrance room (rooms # 1, 2 and 3 in the plan showing the original shape as crematoriun) were replaced as well by massive walls.
Maybe this removal of these old walls is meant by the Auschwitz Museum, but they don't mention that instead of these old walls massive walls were built and the former mortuary was divided into four rooms by adding new walls.

[Kiwichap]

Reinhard

The Auschwitz Museum seems to refer to the partition wall between the mortuary and the furnace room.

Please, show me the source or the link... please.

[Reinhard]

Reinhard

The Auschwitz Museum seems to refer to the partition wall between the mortuary and the furnace room.

Please, show me the source or the link... please.

That's my guess, because these are the only walls, which had been removed. But, as I said, the Auschwitz Museum doesn't mention that they were replaced by massive walls. Whether the Auschwitz Museum is deliberately providing misleading information about that conversion into an air raid shelter - who knows that? I don't.

By the way, here is the photograph of the building taken in May 1945, which I mentioned above, from Pressac's book. As I said before, it's a very poor photograph, which doesn't show any details:

"Western corner of Krematorium I in 1945 in its condition as “air raid shelter”, with no chimney and with the window of the morgue filled in. The central door gave access to the first air lock of the shelter, the second one alongside it to the medical store."
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0144.htm


"The right hand door is the main entrance, northwest, of Krematorium I in 1945 [May?]. It is not known whether this door is original or has just been fitted. Restoration work is in progress. The left-hand door leads to the former medical store and was subsequently to be converted back into a window."
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0147.htm


"The southeast access to the second air lock of the air raid shelter for the SS hospital, the building visible in the background, behind the trees, in 1945. This entrance led directly to the former gas chamber of Krematorium I. Though it had nothing to do with the gas chamber it was preserved during the restoration, whereas it should have been filled in to respect historical facts."
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0147.htm

[Kiwichap]

Reinhard, thanks for the above. Can you do one more thing please.

Can you briefly take us through the history of the building changes, but thanks to Rudolf and others, use this premise.

There were NO gas-chambers, therefore, there was NO holocaust. So there was no conversion into a gas chamber. No walls were rearranged pertaining to a gas chamber.

What do we see?

[Radar]

OK. Then it could make sense that massive walls were added to reinforce the bomb shelter. And, admittedly, the extra walls between the added rooms in the gas chamber itself would technically add reinforcement and shrapnel protection to a bomb shelter structure.

However, we still have no explanation why the phony Zyklon chutes were clustered in the wrong spot? The whole premise is that the chutes were placed back in the spots were the plug impressions were. But you couldn't have had plug impressions in the wrong place. Therefore the chutes are bogus. No chutes - no gassings.

[Radar]

It would make sense that if the morgue room at Auschwitz I were a gas chamber that it would have had a gas-tight door in the washroom wall. When the Soviets were knocking down walls to restore the original 'gas chamber' they would have come up to this wall with a gas-tight door in it and realized the had reached the extent of the 'gas chamber'.

What this circumstantial information tells us is they probably came up to the washroom wall and found a nominal Auschwitz room door. That is why they went a wall too far, because the wall they knocked down gave no indication of being a gas chamber wall.

[Kiwichap]

Radar, I follow your gist but, forgetting about walls and gas-tight doors, lets listen to Cole

"Now lets go inside. Once inside we can see why Revisionists have had such a field day with this building. Obvious marks on the walls and floors where apparently walls have been knocked down. Equally obvious holes in the floor where bathroom facilities had been. We maintain that, unlike the large hollow chamber we now see, this room had once been five rooms, including a bathroom"

Surely the bathroom, as Cole said, would have contained toilets, perhaps a shower and wash basins.

So the question is: Did the Soviets not look at the room on the other side of the wall they were about to knock down and see the toilets, basins etc? If they did, which they surely must have, why did they knock down the wall?

Perhaps the Soviets made the holes in the roof first, and then had to get the room to fit the holes.

This is only my supposition. Perhaps this gas-chamber had an ensuite.
Can you think of a better explanation?