Thomas Walther and the prosecution of Elderly Germans

[Merlin300]

The German government has stepped up campaign of prosecution of elderly people who were marginally involved in the operation of German detention camps. An example is the months long prosecution of Josef Schuetz. Schuetz was Lithuanian-born German accused of being a perimeter guard at Sachsenhausen detention camp. He was not accused of personal involvement in acts of brutality or killing, merely being there. Since, at age 101, it is unlikely he will serve any jail time other than the time he already spent in a Soviet POW camp in 1945-1947, one might wonder why hold a lengthy and expensive trial?

Here is what it is all about.

“I’m happy that he got the maximum sentence…” crowed Wiesenthal Center’s Efraim Zuroff on leaving the courthouse; adding “These trials help fight Holocaust denial and distortion.”

Jerusalem Post https://www.jpost.com/international/article-710609



Guillaume Mouralis, a research professor at the Center Marc Bloch declared such trials send an important signal.
'It is a question of reaffirming the political and moral responsibility of individuals in an authoritarian context (and in a criminal regime) at a time when the neo-fascist far right is strengthening everywhere in Europe'

Karen Pollock CBE, the Chief Executive of the British charity Holocaust Educational Trust: 'The passage of time is no barrier to justice when it comes to the heinous crimes of the Nazis and their collaborators.

'Every time someone is found guilty of these crimes, regardless of their age, the truth of the Holocaust is reaffirmed for all to see.’

The person most responsible for this cynical prosecution of elderly Germans is Thomas Walther.

Thomas Walther is a German lawyer, a former judge, and a federal prosecutor for the Central Office of the State Justice Administrations for the Investigation of National Socialist Crimes. Born in 1943 Walther promotes himself as the "last of the Nazi hunters" for his work in setting legal precedent in seeking punishment elderly Germans

The two major contributions Walther helped bring into law were that an accused did not have to be directly involved to be guilty of aiding and abetting a murder during the Holocaust; and a Holocaust survivor who testifies in a German court does not have to directly identify the defendant.

Ironically, Walther's big case was of 90 year-old John Demjanjuk, who was not a Nazi or a German, but a Ukrainian drafted into the Soviet army, captured by the Germans and then possibly used as a mechanic at Sobibor. Humorously, several "Survivors" made dramatic identifications of Demjanjuk as running the diesel engine at Treblinka, an obviously impossible assertion.

To hear Walther speak see. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-E8sq0y ... w9rXepN344

[borjastick]

I was sitting here having a cuppa this morning in a warm glow of World Cup happiness over England's thrashing of Iran and this story comes up. My warm glow quickly boiled over so here's my take on this pile of steaming dog turd.

“I’m happy that he got the maximum sentence…” crowed Wiesenthal Center’s Efraim Zuroff on leaving the courthouse; adding “These trials help fight Holocaust denial and distortion.”

Zuroff is one steaming dog turd and surly, nasty and self righteous with it. If he feels that persecuting an old man makes any difference to the holocaust story it only betrays his blood thirty desire for revenge over something that probably didn't happen and in this case by someone who had slightly less than fuck all to do with the claimed holocaust anyway.

Guillaume Mouralis, a research professor at the Center Marc Bloch declared such trials send an important signal.
'It is a question of reaffirming the political and moral responsibility of individuals in an authoritarian context (and in a criminal regime) at a time when the neo-fascist far right is strengthening everywhere in Europe'

This is nonsense. The far right is an invention of the far left to justify their aggressive actions against people who hold a centre right political opinion. Antifa, which is a extreme far left and very aggressive movement is by far the more dangerous element and please tell me when a)the far right have caused any issues in recent years and b)how useful to holocaust promoters like Zuroff is the claim that the far right is growing and on the march. The 'far right' helps them enormously by allowing them to pretend the jews and liberals are under attack by what is in trueth a non existent monster. In other words Hitler's SS storm troopers could appear at any moment. Complete bollocks.

[Hektor]

The German government has stepped up campaign of prosecution of elderly people who were marginally involved in the operation of German detention camps. An example is the months long prosecution of Josef Schuetz. Schuetz was Lithuanian-born German accused of being a perimeter guard at Sachsenhausen detention camp. He was not accused of personal involvement in acts of brutality or killing, merely being there. Since, at age 101, it is unlikely he will serve any jail time other than the time he already spent in a Soviet POW camp in 1945-1947, one might wonder why hold a lengthy and expensive trial?

Here is what it is all about.

“I’m happy that he got the maximum sentence…” crowed Wiesenthal Center’s Efraim Zuroff on leaving the courthouse; adding “These trials help fight Holocaust denial and distortion.”

Jerusalem Post https://www.jpost.com/international/article-710609
...

Indeed the persecution of "NS-Perpetrators" has become quite ridiculous over the years.
* There is no personal accusations against the accused now... In the past they at least had some 'witnesses' that said ABC did XYZ some time in the war. (In case of a homicide charges this was mostly done with 1. Names of victims 2. corpse/remains of victims 3. No weapons or instrument 4. Numerous details missing 5. Sings of embellishment.
* The accused are now people that were at the 'wrong time at the wrong place)... Guilt by association is assumed as certain events at some place are presumed to have happened.
* There is not even testimony relevant to the accused given at the trials. Just statements to make the audience, jury, defense, prosecution, judges etc. prejudicial against the accused.
* There was no 'freedom to choose employment' in Germany at the time.
* Some of the accused were actually minors or juveniles at the time.
* Given that it is 80 years or so back... It's actually unlikely that the accused could recall any details of that period. And memory can be very fragile.
* The accusations are actually now for "aiding and abetting". What exactly is of course simply assumed. In Germany they first dropped the limitations for murder... Which on its own is already problematic. They did not persecute people for anything else than murder fist. But this has meanwhile change again. So the persecution is actually ex post facto application of legislation/law which is problematic in itself.


It's pretty clear that those trials DO NOT serve the 'Ends of Justice' not at all and they were never meant to. The purpose of the trials was/is to give the media juicy accusations and testimony to report on. Journalists will quote "witnesses" or repeat statements like "Six million Jews were exterminated during the Holocaust". Checkout the media echo, when such a trial is going on... suddenly all newspapers and radio-stations find it necessary to report on it. While I don't thing the public interest in this is actually too great, this reaffirms and triggers memories of previous media reports of "holocaust lessons" with the audience. And that is the intended effect. Remind people that an otherwise well-respected Nation like the Germans tried to exterminate all Jews... And that the Jews are hence victims that are above any criticism. People that "You gentiles should revere "... or even worship. Holocaust is replacement theology of its finest. Old fashioned Christianity had Christ crucified, die and resurrect as atonement for the sins of the world. 'Believe in him and you will be saved'....
Since this was off the mark for most people trying to project an enlightened, educated, secular and modern image, they have dropped the idea... Declare it a myth at best, doubt it even deny it.
The Holocaust takes the form of historiography... Some evil group did kill six million Jews in Gas chambers and made all the bodies vanish by fire/cremation... They were not resurrected... But the "Jewish nation got it's country back"... To Christian Zionists this is a miracle... allegedly "affirming prophesy"... Which actually used to be in dispute in the past. Biblical prophesies talking about 'God's people' were said to be talking about Christians not adherents of Judaism. For the rest of folks it's merely "Those poor Jews" - "Anti-semitism is so bad". (bla, blah)... 'We really must defend the Jews and White-Knight for them, whenever possible.'.... For Jews it is of course cultural capital and social power they can use to shield against criticism and protecting them, when they act nefariously. But this cultural capital needs to be reaffirmed in some way.... Otherwise it will loose its magic... And that's were Holocaust-related Show-Trials come into play.... It's one of the tools in the box to keep "memory" alive. And it's also a way of "Erasing the memory of Amalek "... Which they declared to be the Germans... Now while that is obvious nonsense... It isn't nonsense for committed Rabbis, Kabbalists and their following.

[Merlin300]

Old people make great defendants in these propaganda show trials because once the media gives them a
pejorative nickname. (like the Secretary of Evil for poor 96 year- old Mrs. Irmgard Furchner) the accused generally just sits there while
the legal representative of various victims ie. Thomas Walther, presents sick, twisted stories unchallenged by anyone.

Walther's personal campaign has numerous baleful effects.
The use of German Courts as propaganda tools debases the whole German legal system.
The German judges have never prevented a story from being entered into the record no matter how
ridiculous or impossible it is.
and the legal concept of punishing people merely for serving in as a secretary violates fundamental concepts of justice.

Finally, the hypocrisy of these prosecutions is exposed by the failure to prosecute any of the post-War operators of Stalin's German based
camps. At Sachsenhausen 12,000 bodies have been found, generally women and children. Interestingly by 1947 the main target of
Stalin's NKVD were Social Democrats!
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sachsenha ... %80%931950)
The Camp administration politely avoids naming any of the perpetrators of the mass murders, let alone seeking prosecution.

[Archie]

I wonder if there has been any public opinion polling on this sort of thing. I can't imagine most people look favorably on these absurd trials. Trying people who had ordinary jobs merely because of an association with concentration camps just because they don't have anyone else to go after. It's unseemly. There are no other examples of such scrutiny being applied to the participants of a war. It's totally unprecedented. Could you imagine if in 1940 they had tried to dredge up atrocity allegations from the Civil War against a low-level functionary? And with ZERO direct evidence? The evidence is literally, you worked at a concentration camp between these dates, therefore guilty. The keep lowering the bar more and more.

[hermod]

The Holohoax is like a Frankenstein Monster. As a morbid propaganda lie, it must be kept artificially alive through a constant injection of fresh blood in the form of a continuous media show. That's what those grotesque show trials provide.

[Hektor]

Old people make great defendants in these propaganda show trials because once the media gives them a
pejorative nickname. (like the Secretary of Evil for poor 96 year- old Mrs. Irmgard Furchner) the accused generally just sits there while
the legal representative of various victims ie. Thomas Walther, presents sick, twisted stories unchallenged by anyone.

Walther's personal campaign has numerous baleful effects.
The use of German Courts as propaganda tools debases the whole German legal system.
The German judges have never prevented a story from being entered into the record no matter how
ridiculous or impossible it is.
and the legal concept of punishing people merely for serving in as a secretary violates fundamental concepts of justice.
.....

They make great targets for judicial attacks, because those people lack mental or physical strength, resources, and connection that would be helpful i any trial. Given their low positions they may have had, they probably will not be able to talk back a lot. All they could do is point out that their present persecution is an injustice of its own.

The prosecution is given any advantage thinkable here. This includes:
- Favorable media coverage
- Access to information
- No burden of proof.


The Malicious media coverage is obnoxious on its own. Usually, there is a sub judice rule that prohibits that media gives prejudicial names to the accused, but has to hold back on reporting there. That was never really observed in the cases of NS-accused, but it seems to have become more vicious during the past decades. Imagine the media would do that with a asylum seeker that is accused of stabbing people in public. You can be pretty certain that journalist will refrain from this for fear of loosing their jobs and the editors won't place this anyway to avoid that their outlet becomes a target of the professionally outraged.

[HeiligeSturm]

And some people got away unpunished. Like camp commandant Solomon Morel years ago.

The case of Solomon Morel, 86, is the only one in Holocaust history where a Jew stands accused of war crimes against Germans.

It has perplexed legal minds in both countries. Poland says genocide is genocide whether a Jew or a Nazi committed it, while many Israelis see rough justice in the 1500 German deaths for which Mr Morel is alleged to be responsible.

Now the Israeli Government has said that Mr Morel will not be sent back to stand trial in Poland under any circumstances.

https://www.theage.com.au/world/holocau ... e0hsj.html

Hypocrisy.

[hermod]

And some people got away unpunished. Like camp commandant Solomon Morel years ago.

The case of Solomon Morel, 86, is the only one in Holocaust history where a Jew stands accused of war crimes against Germans.

It has perplexed legal minds in both countries. Poland says genocide is genocide whether a Jew or a Nazi committed it, while many Israelis see rough justice in the 1500 German deaths for which Mr Morel is alleged to be responsible.

Now the Israeli Government has said that Mr Morel will not be sent back to stand trial in Poland under any circumstances.

https://www.theage.com.au/world/holocau ... e0hsj.html

Hypocrisy.

Show trials are not about the punishment of real criminals. They're all about the strengthening of propaganda claims. Most people believe that a regime they regard as legitimate would never punish innocent people for political purposes. So show trials make them believe that a conviction proves some older propaganda claims (accusations) were true.

[Hektor]

And some people got away unpunished. Like camp commandant Solomon Morel years ago.

The case of Solomon Morel, 86, is the only one in Holocaust history where a Jew stands accused of war crimes against Germans.

It has perplexed legal minds in both countries. Poland says genocide is genocide whether a Jew or a Nazi committed it, while many Israelis see rough justice in the 1500 German deaths for which Mr Morel is alleged to be responsible.

Now the Israeli Government has said that Mr Morel will not be sent back to stand trial in Poland under any circumstances.

https://www.theage.com.au/world/holocau ... e0hsj.html

Hypocrisy.

Show trials are not about the punishment of real criminals. They're all about the strengthening of propaganda claims. Most people believe that a regime they regard as legitimate would never punish innocent people for political purposes. So show trials make them believe that a conviction proves some older propaganda claims (accusations) were true.

Of course.
The Soviet trials mostly ended in punishment, but it for sure wasn't the main purpose of those charades.

There is of course no discrete difference between a show trial and an ordinary neither. But there are poles for each. One is the prosecution of crimes without spectacle or political/propaganda motive.... the other one is virtually only about politics, propaganda and 'educating the public'.

In anything "Nazi" or "Holocaust" related, I got yet to see a case where justice and not propaganda, public perception and politicking were the primary motives.

That they are trying to try and jail 100plussers is a new low. I feel for those harassed and harmed.... But in the end this may actually work against the Holocaust Lobby indicating how insane the belief and cult around the Holocaust actually was.