Report: Auschwitz blueprints 'found' in Berlin apartment

[Hannover]

Posted by someone else on a different forum:

CR: "460 square feet, or 11,500 cubic feet. Seems like you'd need a lot of gas to poison large numbers of people and then you'd have to vent it without killing all of your own people."

I suggest this is dubious reasoning.

First, if I remember correctly, the concentration of gas must have been relatively weak, because it took relatively long to "delouse" one batch of people. I forget – 20 minutes? In any case, the venting of the gas into the outdoors does not need to be a major problem, with or without forced-air circulation.

Second, the "deloused" victims were emptied from the shower-rooms by sondercommandos – groups of Jews that were executed every 3-4 months anyway -- so I don't think that their health was major concern for those that ran the "delousing" operation. Anyway, that's all to the extent that those sondercommando Jews could be considered the Nazis' "your own people."

I'm speaking in general terms, of course (not addressing differences between Auschwitz I and Auschwitz-Birkenau, etc. -- I think that's secondary as far as the issue that you've raised.)

If the so called 'sonderkommandos were executed, then why do so many write laughable books.

The gassing canard is such a yawn, see:
'Cyanide Chemistry at Auschwitz'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4111

- Hannover

[simon1003]

This was discussed on BBC Radio 4's Today Programme this morning. You can hear it again here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7721000/7721288.stm

Scroll down to 07:45 to hear this rather one-sided debate.

"0745
Blueprints of Nazi concentration camp Auschwitz, which appear to show that the site was extended to carry out exterminations of the Jewish people earlier than was previously thought, have been published by the German newspaper Bild. Correspondent Steve Rosenberg and Professor David Cesarani, of the Holocaust memorial Museum, discuss if this means the plan for the Holocaust, the "final solution", was devised earlier than January 1942."

One intertesting thing about the segment though is that Cesarani calls Bild cynical and tabloid and he isn't happy about these blueprints for some reason.

Any idea what it is? As soon as he started to doubt them I thought that he knows this somehow helps revisionists.

[Hektor]

"Holocaust Expert" van Pelt suggests blue prints may be fake.

Last update - 19:13 10/11/2008
Auschwitz expert: Blueprints found in Berlin not of death camp
By Assaf Uni
Tags: Israel News, jewish world

A leading expert on Auschwitz on Sunday denigrated the importance of the finding of plans for the construction of the extermination camp, which was reported this weekend in the German tabloid Bild. He said the documents have been known to scholars for many years and that they were not plans to build the extermination camp of Auschwitz-Birkenau, but rather earlier plans for the building of a forced labor camp.

Prof. Robert Jan van Pelt, a internationally acknowledged expert on the planning and construction of Auschwitz, said that based on what he had seen on the Internet, there seemed to be nothing new about the documents. He was one of several scholars who expressed doubts about the significance of the Bild story.

Van Pelt, an architectural historian, said that copies of the plans of the stages of the camp's construction were also in the archive of the Polish National Museum at Auschwitz and in an archive in Moscow. He said that the source of the new copies was unclear since, according to Bild, the plans were found in an apartment in Berlin, whereas copies that were in the SS offices in Berlin were destroyed by Allied bombing in 1944. Van Pelt said he also doubted the authenticity of the signature of the SS chief, Heinrich Himmler, since such a high-ranking officer would not have signed such plans, and none of the copies he had ever seen bore such a signature.

Van Pelt also said the words "gas chamber" on one of the drawings meant a room in which disinfection of clothing was done by means of gas, and that the sketch is not of an extermination camp established in 1942, but rather of earlier plans for a huge concentration camp in which a force of 130,000 slave laborers was intended to work.

Van Pelt suggested the plans might be fakes, motivated by the lucrative market in Nazi memorabilia and documents.

Ralf Georg Reuth, the historian who wrote the piece in Bild, told Haaretz yesterday that the existence of such plans in Russian archives was known, "but German institutions have no originals, and therefore the importance of the finding of such original material is very great." Reuth would not elaborate on where and when the plans were discovered, or whether they had been submitted to experts for study.


Source: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1035958.html

Check out the comments as well.

[PatrickSMcNally]

"Holocaust Expert" van Pelt suggests blue prints may be fake.

Very interesting illustration of how even orthodox spokesmen now know they need to anticipate revisionist arguments. Just to read Van Pelt going on about how "gas chamber" doesn't mean execution chamber was a shock.

[Inquisitive]

Another hackneyed Auschwitz “revelation”!
by Prof Robert Faurisson

In reality, there is strictly nothing new about this type of document, and the building plans of the “gas chamber” in question (Gaskammer, fully spelt out) are those of a simple “delousing facility” (Entlausungsanlage, fully spelt out as well).

Besides, a passage in the Bild article demonstrates the unease of our fraudsters. Here it is in German, followed by an English translation:
“Dass in der 11,66 mal 11,20 Meter großen „Gaskammer“ nicht Kleidungsstücke mit dem bei der SS üblichen Blausäure-Mittel entlaust, sondern Menschen vergast werden sollten, muss als sehr wahrscheinlich angenommen werden.”
“It must be considered very likely that in this 11.66 by 11.20-meter ‘gas chamber’ it was not garments that were deloused in the SS’s usual way with hydrogen cyanide, but that it was human beings who must have been gassed.”

The reader will have noted: “It must be considered very likely […] that it was human beings who must have been gassed.”

This passage was left out of the articles in the French or English-language press which have, so far, come to my attention and which claim to quote Bild.

Fred Leuchter, Germar Rudolf, Carlo Mattogno and many others) have made extensive use of those plans or of others still, which Bild discovers today just as someone might discover the moon or the Loch Ness monster.

http://www.jailingopinions.com/

This was right before they rolled Faurisson's house

New police raid at my house
November 13, 2008
Today, Thursday, November 13, at 6:15 AM, two investigators from the Police Judiciaire in Paris, having arrived in Vichy yesterday evening, burst into my house accompanied by three uniformed policemen, not without deliberately making a great deal of noise.
The OPJ’s, a young woman and a youngish man, performed their search from 6:20 to 10:30.

hmmmm wonder if there's a connection?

[Turpitz]

Van Pelt suggested the plans might be fakes.

I would never have believed that me and Pelty Pen Pusher would ever agree on anything, but here you are!

motivated by the lucrative market in Nazi memorabilia and documents.

Motivated by Communist Jews trying to redesign buildings to fit their lies more like it. Shame they didn't know what they were doing.

They were knocking this garbage out, along with other documents and forged photos, by the barrel load at the wars end.

[Laurentz Dahl]

The dirt rag Bild Zeitung and its owners, the Axel Springer corporation, has not one ounce of shame in their rotten bodies:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 776290.ece

Blueprints of the concentration camp at Auschwitz, found recently in a rubbish skip, have been put on display in a Berlin shopping centre as a public challenge to Holocaust deniers.

The plans, which show gas chambers, huge storage halls for corpses, and a crematorium, have been put up in a busy foyer between sandwich shops and a sushi bar.

"It's shocking, deeply shocking," said Tobias Prennzler, 27, a design student, as he leant forward to decipher the signature of Heinrich Himmler, the head of the Nazi security machine. "This was 1941 and they were already drawing up plans for some kind of a death factory. And it looks like they wanted to make it permanent."

The display comes as Germans, once fiercely proud of the Bavarian-born Pope Benedict XVI, are registering dismay that the Vatican should have accepted a Holocaust sceptic back into the fold. Bishop Richard Williamson, who is being expelled from Argentina by the Government, once told Swedish television: "I believe there were no gas chambers."

The core of Auschwitz was built for migrant farm workers in 1916 when southern Poland was still part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. When the First World War ended it was taken over by the Polish horse artillery. After the Nazi invasion of Poland in 1939, it was turned into a jail for Polish officers and intellectuals.

[Vlad]

Don't blame it on Bild alone, that's Roger Boyes of the London Times who's very fond of Nazi porn of any shape or form.

[Hektor]

Also check out the comments being made to the artickle. Are these the same plans displayed earlier?

[tyger]

The narrative has morphed yet again.

The Times article now mentions "huge halls for the storage of corpses". I don't recall these being mentioned before, but I guess you need them to solve the problem of accounting for the cremation capacity bottleneck.

[Arsènelupin]

According to official history, if nazis built in Birkenau "huge storage halls for corpses" -and it is true - they nearly never used them as mortuaries, because these rooms were used evry day to gass jews.
So the question is : "Wher did nazis put the corpses of all people who died of disease or other natural reason ?"

[Turpitz]

It does NOT matter what the huge halls were for, if they came anywhere near even half their capacity it would overburden the ovens, because the actual crematoria was never designed to deal with such a mammoth volume of corpses. It makes no sense at all adding these huge extensions if you are not going to radically redesign the lift and mosrt importantly the crematoria. These liars know people are smelling a rat where these "re-built" buildings are concerned, so they are coming out with all manner of babble.

[Vlad]

Here (in the small print) is the latest version:
http://www.bildblog.de/5904/die-bauplae ... schwitz-2/

Plan einer Entlausunganlage vom November 1941. Schon in den ersten Plänen für das KZ Birkenau sind zwei Entlausungsanlagen eingezeichnet, mit je einer mehr als hundert Quadratmeter großen Gaskammer. Für die Desinfektion der Kleidung von KZ-Insassen ist das zuviel. Der Plan weist auf den systematisch geplanten Massenmord hin. Denn für die Entlausung der Kleidung von hundertausenden Ermordeter ist die Kapazität richtig berechnet.

That is, the delousing facilities designed in 1941 were too large for the purpose of handling the inmates' clothing but had exactly the right size for the purpose of delousing the clothing of future victims of homicidal gas chambers.

[Hektor]

Here (in the small print) is the latest version:
http://www.bildblog.de/5904/die-bauplae ... schwitz-2/

Plan einer Entlausunganlage vom November 1941. Schon in den ersten Plänen für das KZ Birkenau sind zwei Entlausungsanlagen eingezeichnet, mit je einer mehr als hundert Quadratmeter großen Gaskammer. Für die Desinfektion der Kleidung von KZ-Insassen ist das zuviel. Der Plan weist auf den systematisch geplanten Massenmord hin. Denn für die Entlausung der Kleidung von hundertausenden Ermordeter ist die Kapazität richtig berechnet.

That is, the delousing facilities designed in 1941 were too large for the purpose of handling the inmates' clothing but had exactly the right size for the purpose of delousing the clothing of future victims of homicidal gas chambers.

That doesn't make sense. If it's the right size for a bigger camp, how does this prove any homicidal intentions?

[KostasL]

It does NOT matter what the huge halls were for, if they came anywhere near even half their capacity it would overburden the ovens, because the actual crematoria was never designed to deal with such a mammoth volume of corpses. It makes no sense at all adding these huge extensions if you are not going to radically redesign the lift and mosrt importantly the crematoria.

Don't worry, the holocaustians shall provide huge multi-ovens very soon.




But i ask you :

IF i provide you evidence or show you huge gass chambers and efficient krematoriums, WOULD YOU believe that the holocaust happened and all your questions about it, would be answered ?

I guess not, because i would still have a lot to explain which seem impossible.