Saint Maximilian Kolbe

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Saint Maximilian Kolbe

Postby Enlightened Student » 1 decade 3 months ago (Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:01 pm)

Hello everyone, My name is Jon and as you can see I am new here. I have spent around a year lurking here and finally decided to join up. I have a German and Polish heritage and was enlightened a few years ago about the farce that is the Holocaust. I remember when I was young I watched Schindler's list at felt extreme guilt for what had happened. My father told me we had an Aunt that was a Catholic Nun and died at Auschwitz. I started to do research on her but came up with nothing no matter how many books I tried to reference or relatives I spoke with. My father was finally forced to tell me that this was a story told to him by a relative and probably wasn't true. This got me to thinking that well if this is incorrect then what about all the other stories... So after a long journey that is how I ended up here....


Well on to why I posted this thread... Being a Catholic and a Revisionist not only of the Holocaust but of WWII too... I like to study some of the Catholics stories of persecution and "death" in the camps.... The usual story is a Catholic gets in trouble for harboring Jews not because of simply being Catholic... So I can see why they were sent to the camps....One of the ones I have started researching recently was Saint Maximilian Kolbe... Through some of the main stream research I was looking up came with this little tid bit.... I have never heard of any Jews dieing from injection so it was interesting that they would say this.... Why not just shove him in the "gas chambers" instead of going through all the trouble of an injection..... Honestly this whole story is coming apart at the seams but it makes it difficult subject because he is now canonized....

From Wikipedia:
After the outbreak of World War II, which started with the invasion of his nation by Nazi Germany, Kolbe provided shelter to refugees from Greater Poland, including 2,000 Jews whom he hid from Nazi persecution in his friary in Niepokalanów.[15] On 17 February 1941, he was arrested by the German Gestapo and imprisoned in the Pawiak prison. On 28 May, he was transferred to Auschwitz as prisoner #16670.[16]

At the end of July 1941, three prisoners disappeared from the camp, prompting SS-Hauptsturmführer Karl Fritzsch, the deputy camp commander, to pick 10 men to be starved to death in an underground bunker in order to deter further escape attempts. When one of the selected men, Franciszek Gajowniczek, cried out, "My wife! My children!", Kolbe volunteered to take his place.[17]

In his prison cell, Kolbe celebrated Mass each day and sang hymns with the prisoners.[citation needed] He led the other condemned men in song and prayer and encouraged them by telling them they would soon be with Mary in Heaven. Each time the guards checked on him, he was standing or kneeling in the middle of the cell and looking calmly at those who entered. After two weeks of dehydration and starvation, only Kolbe remained alive. The guards wanted the bunker emptied and they gave Kolbe a lethal injection of carbolic acid. Some who were present at the injection say that he raised his left arm and calmly waited for the injection.[18] His remains were cremated on 15 August, the feast day of the Assumption of Mary.[2]

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Re: Saint Maximilian Kolbe

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 months ago (Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:10 pm)

Hello Enlightened Student (Jon), welcome to the CODOH Revisionist Forum.

Yes, that's quite a story about Kolbe. Of course, as we both know, it's utter nonsense and not supported by facts. There are many tactics in which the 'holocaust' profiteers work to gain support, even to the point of lionizing a non-Jew, or what they arrogantly refer to as a 'righteous gentile'. The simplest way to handle such absurd tales is to demand proof, which is never forthcoming.

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Re: Saint Maximilian Kolbe

Postby EtienneSC » 1 decade 3 months ago (Fri Feb 15, 2013 5:53 am)

If Catholicism is important to you, I'd recommend Robert Faurisson's The Revisionism of Pius XII (2002).

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Re: Saint Maximilian Kolbe

Postby Enlightened Student » 1 decade 3 months ago (Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:46 am)

EtienneSC wrote:If Catholicism is important to you, I'd recommend Robert Faurisson's The Revisionism of Pius XII (2002).


Thank you... I will have to check that out!

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Re: Saint Maximilian Kolbe

Postby Reviso » 1 decade 3 months ago (Fri Feb 15, 2013 12:08 pm)

Years ago, I read a book about Maximilian Kolbe. If my rememberings are true, the fact that he volunteered for dying in the place of another is only known from one witness, the man who said that Kolbe died for him. The author(s) of the book had thus to explain why the other witnesses couldn't confirm the story. Their explanation was : "He spoke so softly that he wasn't heard in the second row." And by the way, it is difficult to believe that the guard agreed with such an exchange.
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Re: Saint Maximilian Kolbe

Postby Mortimer » 1 decade 3 months ago (Sat Feb 16, 2013 5:56 am)

Enlightened Student wrote:Hello everyone, My name is Jon and as you can see I am new here. I have spent around a year lurking here and finally decided to join up. I have a German and Polish heritage and was enlightened a few years ago about the farce that is the Holocaust. I remember when I was young I watched Schindler's list at felt extreme guilt for what had happened. My father told me we had an Aunt that was a Catholic Nun and died at Auschwitz. I started to do research on her but came up with nothing no matter how many books I tried to reference or relatives I spoke with. My father was finally forced to tell me that this was a story told to him by a relative and probably wasn't true. This got me to thinking that well if this is incorrect then what about all the other stories... So after a long journey that is how I ended up here....


Well on to why I posted this thread... Being a Catholic and a Revisionist not only of the Holocaust but of WWII too... I like to study some of the Catholics stories of persecution and "death" in the camps.... The usual story is a Catholic gets in trouble for harboring Jews not because of simply being Catholic... So I can see why they were sent to the camps....One of the ones I have started researching recently was Saint Maximilian Kolbe... Through some of the main stream research I was looking up came with this little tid bit.... I have never heard of any Jews dieing from injection so it was interesting that they would say this.... Why not just shove him in the "gas chambers" instead of going through all the trouble of an injection..... Honestly this whole story is coming apart at the seams but it makes it difficult subject because he is now canonized....

From Wikipedia:
After the outbreak of World War II, which started with the invasion of his nation by Nazi Germany, Kolbe provided shelter to refugees from Greater Poland, including 2,000 Jews whom he hid from Nazi persecution in his friary in Niepokalanów.[15] On 17 February 1941, he was arrested by the German Gestapo and imprisoned in the Pawiak prison. On 28 May, he was transferred to Auschwitz as prisoner #16670.[16]

At the end of July 1941, three prisoners disappeared from the camp, prompting SS-Hauptsturmführer Karl Fritzsch, the deputy camp commander, to pick 10 men to be starved to death in an underground bunker in order to deter further escape attempts. When one of the selected men, Franciszek Gajowniczek, cried out, "My wife! My children!", Kolbe volunteered to take his place.[17]

In his prison cell, Kolbe celebrated Mass each day and sang hymns with the prisoners.[citation needed] He led the other condemned men in song and prayer and encouraged them by telling them they would soon be with Mary in Heaven. Each time the guards checked on him, he was standing or kneeling in the middle of the cell and looking calmly at those who entered. After two weeks of dehydration and starvation, only Kolbe remained alive. The guards wanted the bunker emptied and they gave Kolbe a lethal injection of carbolic acid. Some who were present at the injection say that he raised his left arm and calmly waited for the injection.[18] His remains were cremated on 15 August, the feast day of the Assumption of Mary.[2]

Hi Enlightened Student,
You may be interested in a letter to Carlos Porter about Edith Stein, a nun who was claimed to have been "gassed" at Auschwitz.
www.cwporter.com/letter15.htm
There are 2 sides to every story - always listen or read both points of view and make up your own mind. Don't let others do your thinking for you.

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Re: Saint Maximilian Kolbe

Postby Kladderadatsch » 1 decade 3 months ago (Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:49 am)

From Danuta Czech, The Auschwitz Chronicle for year 1941:

JULY 29 . . .
In the afternoon, the Polish prisoner Zymunt Pilawski (No. 14156) escapes. The telegram informing all appropriate departments of the escape is signed by Camp Commander Fritzsch in the absence of Commandant Höss.

APMO, IZ-8/Gestapo Lodz/2/88/33; D-AuI-12/2, Bulletin, p 5.

Camp Commander Fritzsch probably chooses 15 hostages—this number is written in the Bunker Register—from among the prisoners in Block 14 in retaliation for the escape. He condemns them to death by starvation in the bunker of Block 11. During the selection, a Polish prisoner who is a Franciscan monk and missionary, Maksymilian Raimund Kolbe (No. 16670), steps out of line and asks Camp Commander Fritzsch to take him instead of the desperate selected prisoner Franciszek Gajowniczek (No. 5659). After a brief dispute with Father Kolbe, Fritzsch agrees to the substitution, especially when he finds out that Kolbe is a Catholic priest. The 15 selected prisoners are led off to Block 11. In the Bunker Register, the admission of the 15 prisoners is merely noted without listing names, numbers, day of admission, or day of death.

APMO, D-AuI-3/1a Bunker Register, p. 21; Mat. 605/47a Materials on Father Kolbe. Accounts of Former Prisoners Franciszeck Gajowniczek, Mieczysław Kościelniak, and others

p. 76


AUGUST 14
After spending two weeks in the bunker of Block 11 and surviving—his fellow sufferers all died—the priest Maksymilian Rajmund Kolbe is killed with a phenol injection
by Hans Bock (No. 5). Hans Bock is the Block Senior in the prisoners' infirmary.

APMO, D-AuI-2/3574, Death Certificates
; Mat. 605/47a, Accounts of Former Prisoners Brunon Borgowiez and Maksymilian Chlebik.

p. 80


Two things leap out in this as curious.

First, note the discrepancy of numbers. Pretty much all the other accounts of the Kolbe story (and I've looked around the web at about a dozen now) put the number of prisoners "selected" for starvation at ten, not fifteen. My suspicion is that that's also the number given in the "Accounts of Former Prisoners Franciszeck Gajowniczek, Mieczysław Kościelniak, and others"--namely, the number that has come down in the "oral tradition" of the camp, and been spread abroad since. But Czech of course is writing from within the heart of the Matrix itself, the Archives of the National Museum at Auschwitz (APMO), and so she has access to--and feels compelled to use--the available German documentation as well. And since the Bunker Register (APMO, D-AuI-3/1a) says "15" ("this number is written in the Bunker Register . . . ") she writes "15," hedging it with "probably" since she knows that that number is contradicted by the alleged eyewitness accounts that the rest of the entry is based on.

Of course, someone could try to argue that it's the Bunker Register that's at fault here, but really which is more likely: that the Germans doing the head count at the time of the incident would get the number wrong, or that prisoners "reconstructing" the event later from memory would? It's not significant in the larger picture, perhaps, but it's an interesting example of conflicting evidence, and how the gatekeepers of the myth try to finesse it away. ("Probably.")

More important is this: "In the Bunker Register, the admission of the 15 prisoners is merely noted without listing names, numbers, day of admission, or day of death." That seems pretty callous, and you might be forgiven for imagining that the Germans could have miscounted after all if they were going to be that sloppy in recording other important details. Except, notice this too, from the entry for August 14: "After spending two weeks in the bunker of Block 11 and surviving—his fellow sufferers all died—the priest Maksymilian Rajmund Kolbe is killed with a phenol injection by Hans Bock (No. 5)." So we do in fact know the name, and more importantly, the "day of death" of at least one of the fifteen prisoners allegedly condemned to death by starvation, namely, Maximilian Kolbe. And how do we know these alleged facts? Well, once again there are "Accounts of Former Prisoners" to draw on, but in an extraordinary blunder, Czech also indicates an official German source: "APMO, D-AuI-2/3574, Death Certificates."

Why is that a blunder? Just this. Maximilian Kolbe is famous--a "saint"--only in retrospect; there's absolutely no reason why the Germans at the time would or should have taken any more care to record his death than the deaths of the other fourteen prisoners who supposedly died before him. In other words, there should be fourteen more death certificates, with names and day of death and all the other details that Czech claims earlier, in the entry for July 29, that we do not have. So where are they? The traces shouldn't be hard to locate: fourteen men who died between July 30 and August 14, 1941 (though their deaths presumably should be clustered toward the end of that period), all originally from the same block. We know the name of the man who was "saved" (Franciszeck Gajowniczek) and we know the name of the man who "saved" him (Maximilian Kolbe), but why do we not know the names of any of the others? Surely they too are worthy of the historian's interest: willingly or not, they shared the same terrible fate, they were innocent victims of a cruel regime, they deserve their place in the historical sun. Who were they? What were their names? And why don't any of the people busily promoting the legend of Saint Maximilian of Auschwitz seem to give a damn about finding out?

Is it possible that, somewhere in the Auschwitz archives, there are indeed fourteen (or for that matter, nine) death certificates, all of prisoners from Block 14, all of whom died in the first two weeks of August 1941? Of course I can't rule that out. But on the other hand, I'll only believe it when I see it.

In the meantime, the obvious inference is inescapable: there was no mass starvation of condemned prisoners in the "bunker" of Block 11 in August 1941.

Yes, there may indeed have been a punishment action whereby a group of prisoners was placed on reduced rations (that much would be par for the course, after all, in many penal contexts) as an example after an escape. And the notation in the Bunker Register, assuming it's genuine, may well refer to this. The Germans (or prisoners, or both) may even have referred to this punishment as time in the "starvation cell"; and for prisoners already in a weakened condition, it could well have been fatal. But whatever the case, that it was not in fact fatal for fifteen men in August 1941 is clearly indicated by the fact that the documents proving it--which you can be sure Industry Representatives would be only too happy to show us if they had them--simply are not there.

We have a death certificate for Maximilian Kolbe. Where are the other fourteen?

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Re: Saint Maximilian Kolbe

Postby Enlightened Student » 1 decade 3 months ago (Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:18 pm)

Thanks everyone for you input. Personal thanks to Kladderadatsch for the in depth post...

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Re: Saint Maximilian Kolbe

Postby Horhug » 1 decade 3 months ago (Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:42 pm)

Hello Enlightened Student and welcome to the forum. You do realise that, according to the rules, we all have to refer to you as Enlightened Student until the end of time ... Quite funny - I do and will always feel like I've entered some Buddhist seminary !

Anyway, in addition to the very helpful and insightful response by Kladderadatsch, you also need to be aware of this from Danuta Czech's "bible", the Auschwitz Chronicle 1939 - 1945:

Danuta Czech wrote:Auschwitz Chronicle, p44 - 45. 9 January 1941.

The clerk in Block 11, Franciszek Brol (No. 1159), makes the first entries in the secret notebook he kept on prisoners in the bunker of Block 11, those locked in under camp arrest. This is called the Bunker Register.*

Source: APMO, D-Aul-3/1/2, Bunker register, 2 volumes. The first entries are made on January 9, 1941 and the last on February 2, 1944.

*: The record of the prisoners locked up in the bunker of Block 11 is officially kept, chaotically and imprecisely, by the Block Leader, an SS man. The block clerk, on the other hand, keeps a record of attendance of the rest of the prisoners lodged on the ground floor or the first floor; he is obliged to give the total number of prisoners at camp roll calls. Inconsistencies in the number of prisoners prolong the roll calls and have unfavorable consequences for the prisoners. This leads the clerk to keep his own unofficial register. The Bunker Register is later accepted by the SS men.


So, like the majority of Czech's sources, we have former prisoners providing us with the "history". This time, the meticulous Germans, when they're not "drunk on Sundays, beating people to death", seem to have preferred Franciszek Brol's "Bunker Book" to their own "chaotic and imprecise" version ...

And yet we have this, in the presumably, non-chaotic and precise, Franciszek Brol's version of the Bunker Book ?

Dabuta Czech wrote:In the Bunker Register, the admission of the 15 prisoners is merely noted without listing names, numbers, day of admission, or day of death.


Well, at least it's different from the other "sources", "found buried in latrines" and "found partially burned near to the crematorium" and "dug up at Flossenburg in the 1950's" ...

The other, "give away" on the tale of Father Maksymilian Rajmund Kolbe is the alleged cremation on the 15th August, the very same day for the celebration of The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary into Heaven, which, rather handily, is also Polish Army Day (Święto Wojska Polskiego) and a public holiday in Poland. So, no doubt the clearly very brave, selfless and rather lucky H survivor, Polish Army Sgt. Franciszek Gajowniczek would have had a Holy Trinity of reasons to celebrate on that special day. The Miracle of the Blessed Virgin ascending into heaven, the Miracle at the Vistula in 1920 and the miracle of his life being saved by Father Kolbe. Whilst not forgetting the miracle that he also "survived" the "factories of death" at Auschwitz too and lived to the ripe old age of 94. Quite a fortunate chap you have to agree.

As Kladderadatsch posted above, Sgt. Franciszek Gajowniczek allegedly received registration number 5659 which would mean, according to Danuta Czech's "source" that he arrived at Auschwitz on 8 October 1940, among 342 prisoners sent by the Sipo and SD commander for the Krakow District from either Tarnow or Montelupich prisons. (Au Chronicle, p.31). This source for this arrival date is described by Czech as:

Danuta Czech wrote:Auschwitz Chronicle, p13, 14 June 1940.

Source: APMO, D-RO/123; List of Male Transports, vol 20;

The list contains the arrival date of the transport, the camp numbers of the new prisoners, and where the specific transport came from, in German. The list covers prisoners with Nos. 1 - 199541 for the period May 20, 1940, to September 18, 1944. This document (which received the classification NO KW-2824 at Nuremberg), based on the lists of incoming prisoners in the Admissions Office of the Political Department (camp Gestapo) of Auschwitz, was made illicitly by the prisoners who worked there and clandestinely sent out of the camp in 1944. It is the most important source of information concerning prisoner transports and hence is not cited specifically hereafter.


So once again we have "historical sources" allegedly compiled by Auschwitz prisoners. Czech's bizarre method of source notation causes much confusion as there is also a second "list of male transports" to which she also chose not to subsequently "cite specifically". So, unless the arrival date allows for deduction to a specific list then we have no way of knowing which of the "prisoner compiled lists" is supposed to be the actual source for these male transports. Very helpful way of writing a definitive study.

If Father Kolbe did in fact ascend into Heaven, via cremation, on the very same day as the Holy Virgin, the 15th August 1942 and since a death certificate was issued (for the 14th) then there's a chance that his name would also appear in the Leichenhallebuch (Morgue Book / Register) also. As Danuta Czech makes no reference to this, we should assume otherwise.

All round, a jolly good day for myth and legend I'd say.

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Re: Saint Maximilian Kolbe

Postby hermod » 1 decade 3 months ago (Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:55 am)

In 1949 Father Kolbe's death was allegedly due to starvation and injection of carbolic acid.

http://news.nnyln.net/nccatholic/north- ... ehtml&.pdf

In 1955 Father Kolbe's death was allegedly due to a slow starvation.

Image
http://news.nnyln.net/nccatholic/north- ... ehtml&.pdf

In 1960 Father Kolbe had allegedly died in a gas chamber.

Image
http://news.nnyln.net/nccatholic/north- ... ehtml&.pdf

When there are 3 versions of an event, it usually means the 3 versions are lies. In my opinion Father Kolbe simply died from pneumonia (see the 1955 article).
"[Austen Chamberlain] has done western civilization a great service by refuting at least one of the slanders against the Germans
because a civilization which leaves war lies unchallenged in an atmosphere of hatred and does not produce courage in its leaders to refute them
is doomed.
"

Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung, on the public admission by Britain's Foreign Secretary that the WWI corpse-factory story was false, December 4, 1925

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Re: Saint Maximilian Kolbe

Postby hermod » 1 decade 3 months ago (Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:13 am)

Enlightened Student wrote:In his prison cell, Kolbe celebrated Mass each day and sang hymns with the prisoners.[citation needed] He led the other condemned men in song and prayer and encouraged them by telling them they would soon be with Mary in Heaven. Each time the guards checked on him, he was standing or kneeling in the middle of the cell and looking calmly at those who entered. After two weeks of dehydration and starvation, only Kolbe remained alive. The guards wanted the bunker emptied and they gave Kolbe a lethal injection of carbolic acid. Some who were present at the injection say that he raised his left arm and calmly waited for the injection.[18] His remains were cremated on 15 August, the feast day of the Assumption of Mary.[2]


Nobody can survive for 2 weeks with no food and no water.

The general rule is you can survive 3 minutes without air, 3 days without water and 3 weeks without food, but you can probably go a little longer if the conditions are right and you are in good shape.

3 days without water and then you die. You can survive a bit longer if you have food because there is water in it. But if you have no food and no water, you can't survive for 2 weeks.
"[Austen Chamberlain] has done western civilization a great service by refuting at least one of the slanders against the Germans
because a civilization which leaves war lies unchallenged in an atmosphere of hatred and does not produce courage in its leaders to refute them
is doomed.
"

Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung, on the public admission by Britain's Foreign Secretary that the WWI corpse-factory story was false, December 4, 1925

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Re: Saint Maximilian Kolbe

Postby Thames Darwin » 1 decade 3 months ago (Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:01 pm)

Bobby Sands made it more than two months on water and salt tablets. One other Irish guy made it a week longer than that. So it's possible. It's just not likely.

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Re: Saint Maximilian Kolbe

Postby Horhug » 1 decade 3 months ago (Thu Feb 28, 2013 2:19 pm)

In my previous post, the date of death shown for Rajmund Kolbe, should have been 14.8.1941 not 1942.

Rajmund Kolbe's death is listed in Volume II of the Death Books from Auschwitz, (Sterbebücher von Auschwitz) on page 597:

"Kolbe, Rajmund (7.1.1894, Zdunska Wola, 14.8.1941) - 510/1941"

This means his birth date is listed as: 7.1.1894 (other sources say 8.1.1894) and was born in Zdunska Wola.

510/1941 means that this was the 510th death listed in the 1941 Sterbebücher volume(s). Note: 510th death certificate issued in 1941 occurred in August !

The names lists from the Auschwitz Death Books, which were posted online at the Indymedia Houston site in 2007, additionally contain last residence and religion but no Death Book serial number as above.

The original IMH URL's can be seen at this URL. http://guardian.150m.com/holocaust/auschwitz-data.htm

The links to IMH are all now broken but the originals still exist in the web archive.

Indymedia Houston (IMH) Names List - "K" Last names.

http://web.archive.org/web/200711292125 ... /56667.php

"Kolbe, Rajmund (1894-01-07 1941-08-14) Birthplace: Zdunska Wola, Residence: Niepokalanow, Religion: Catholic"

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Re: Saint Maximilian Kolbe

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 months ago (Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:38 pm)

Thames Darwin wrote:Bobby Sands made it more than two months on water and salt tablets. One other Irish guy made it a week longer than that. So it's possible. It's just not likely.

But hermod said no food, NO WATER.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Saint Maximilian Kolbe

Postby Thames Darwin » 1 decade 3 months ago (Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:20 pm)

Gotcha.


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