Himmler continued: Then the war brought us Into contact with the Jewish masses of the East, who were mostly part of the proletariat. Because of this, many new problems arose. We could not tolerate such an enemy at our backs. The Jewish masses were infected with many diseases, especially typhoid fever. I lost thousands of my S.S. troops through these diseases. Also the Jews were helping the partisans."
So my questions are:
1How many were actually partisans?
2How many of these 2 million Jews perished of Typhus in the occupied Soviet Union?
3How many were shot or gassed in vans.
German Documents/Testimonies if there are any, thanks!
The Gas Vans and Typhus
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Re: The Gas Vans and Typhus
The only one I can give you an exact number for is gas vans, zero. Same for gas chambers in general.
Re: The Gas Vans and Typhus
AxisHistory2006 wrote:Himmler continued: Then the war brought us Into contact with the Jewish masses of the East, who were mostly part of the proletariat. Because of this, many new problems arose. We could not tolerate such an enemy at our backs. The Jewish masses were infected with many diseases, especially typhoid fever. I lost thousands of my S.S. troops through these diseases. Also the Jews were helping the partisans."
So my questions are:
1How many were actually partisans?
2How many of these 2 million Jews perished of Typhus in the occupied Soviet Union?
3How many were shot or gassed in vans.
German Documents/Testimonies if there are any, thanks!
You'd have to cite the source for the above.
What gives you the idea that "2 million Jews" perished in the occupied in the Soviet Union?
fireofice wrote:The only one I can give you an exact number for is gas vans, zero. Same for gas chambers in general.
Well, there were *delousing* gas chambers. Which seems to be the origin of the idea / reason why this idea did spread.
Re: The Gas Vans and Typhus
The gas-van story (and so also the whole extermination-camp story, since Chelmno's alleged gas vans supposedly turned that place into Nazi Germany's very 1st extermination camp) was clearly a mixture of the [real] German mobile delousing squads fighting typhus with special purpose vehicles (Sonderkraftfahrzeugen ) on the Eastern front and the [fictional] gas-chamber atrocity story concocted by the London Daily Telegraph during the First World War.
"[Austen Chamberlain] has done western civilization a great service by refuting at least one of the slanders against the Germans
because a civilization which leaves war lies unchallenged in an atmosphere of hatred and does not produce courage in its leaders to refute them
is doomed. "
Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung, on the public admission by Britain's Foreign Secretary that the WWI corpse-factory story was false, December 4, 1925
because a civilization which leaves war lies unchallenged in an atmosphere of hatred and does not produce courage in its leaders to refute them
is doomed. "
Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung, on the public admission by Britain's Foreign Secretary that the WWI corpse-factory story was false, December 4, 1925
Re: The Gas Vans and Typhus
I was just going to say, didn't all these so called mobile gas van sightings coincide with the typhus epidemics breaking out in Eastern Europe etc at the time 1941-42? People who lived in isolated rural communities who could not get to bigger towns for correct treatment etc , so the vans went and furnishing, bedding, clothing etc were deloused in them?
But we are not allowed to think logically like that though are we.
But we are not allowed to think logically like that though are we.
Re: The Gas Vans and Typhus
AxisHistory2006 wrote:"The Jewish masses were infected with many diseases, especially typhoid fever."
Typhus and typhoid fever are 2 distinct diseases. Typhus is transmitted by lice (blood) and typhoid fever is transmitted by food or drinking water (fecal-oral route).
"[Austen Chamberlain] has done western civilization a great service by refuting at least one of the slanders against the Germans
because a civilization which leaves war lies unchallenged in an atmosphere of hatred and does not produce courage in its leaders to refute them
is doomed. "
Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung, on the public admission by Britain's Foreign Secretary that the WWI corpse-factory story was false, December 4, 1925
because a civilization which leaves war lies unchallenged in an atmosphere of hatred and does not produce courage in its leaders to refute them
is doomed. "
Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung, on the public admission by Britain's Foreign Secretary that the WWI corpse-factory story was false, December 4, 1925
Re: The Gas Vans and Typhus
slob wrote:I was just going to say, didn't all these so called mobile gas van sightings coincide with the typhus epidemics breaking out in Eastern Europe etc at the time 1941-42? People who lived in isolated rural communities who could not get to bigger towns for correct treatment etc , so the vans went and furnishing, bedding, clothing etc were deloused in them?
But we are not allowed to think logically like that though are we.
Indeed ideal for rumors and the spreading thereof. People here a vehicle is used to kill people... And when they see it, they believe it is true. Priceless, if jamming occupied areas is your goal.
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curioussoul
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Re: The Gas Vans and Typhus
The only evidence for gas vans is the Turner Letter, which calls them "delousing vans" (with quotation marks). How much evidentiary value you want to ascribe to this letter and the quotation marks obviously depends on whether you already believe the gas van hoax.
Re: The Gas Vans and Typhus
curioussoul wrote:The only evidence for gas vans is the Turner Letter, which calls them "delousing vans" (with quotation marks). How much evidentiary value you want to ascribe to this letter and the quotation marks obviously depends on whether you already believe the gas van hoax.
I'm sure they got tons of witnesses that have seen vans moving around in territories occupied by Germany.
Re: The Gas Vans and Typhus
hermod wrote:The gas-van story (and so also the whole extermination-camp story, since Chelmno's alleged gas vans supposedly turned that place into Nazi Germany's very 1st extermination camp) was clearly a mixture of the [real] German mobile delousing squads fighting typhus with special purpose vehicles (Sonderkraftfahrzeugen ) on the Eastern front and the [fictional] gas-chamber atrocity story concocted by the London Daily Telegraph during the First World War.
The place of Chelmno's fictitious gas vans in the Holohoax mythology:
"[Austen Chamberlain] has done western civilization a great service by refuting at least one of the slanders against the Germans
because a civilization which leaves war lies unchallenged in an atmosphere of hatred and does not produce courage in its leaders to refute them
is doomed. "
Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung, on the public admission by Britain's Foreign Secretary that the WWI corpse-factory story was false, December 4, 1925
because a civilization which leaves war lies unchallenged in an atmosphere of hatred and does not produce courage in its leaders to refute them
is doomed. "
Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung, on the public admission by Britain's Foreign Secretary that the WWI corpse-factory story was false, December 4, 1925
Re: The Gas Vans and Typhus
hermod wrote:The gas-van story (and so also the whole extermination-camp story, since Chelmno's alleged gas vans supposedly turned that place into Nazi Germany's very 1st extermination camp) was clearly a mixture of the [real] German mobile delousing squads fighting typhus with special purpose vehicles (Sonderkraftfahrzeugen ) on the Eastern front and the [fictional] gas-chamber atrocity story concocted by the London Daily Telegraph during the First World War.
"[Austen Chamberlain] has done western civilization a great service by refuting at least one of the slanders against the Germans
because a civilization which leaves war lies unchallenged in an atmosphere of hatred and does not produce courage in its leaders to refute them
is doomed. "
Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung, on the public admission by Britain's Foreign Secretary that the WWI corpse-factory story was false, December 4, 1925
because a civilization which leaves war lies unchallenged in an atmosphere of hatred and does not produce courage in its leaders to refute them
is doomed. "
Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung, on the public admission by Britain's Foreign Secretary that the WWI corpse-factory story was false, December 4, 1925
Re: The Gas Vans and Typhus
It's actually very plausible that the (homicidal) gas van rumor is connected to delousing vans run by mobile squads. This is even noted in the foreign press and I think quite sincerely:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... 20Epidemic
Having 'special vans' driving around is ideal for spreading rumors that those vans are actually homicidal gas vans. And of course scaring people that then avoid coming near those vans, which are actually there to help them not to fall victim to the epidemics.
More epidemic problems = more problems for the Germans/Axis, hence this rumormongering would also be part of the Allied war-effort against the Axis.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... 20Epidemic
Having 'special vans' driving around is ideal for spreading rumors that those vans are actually homicidal gas vans. And of course scaring people that then avoid coming near those vans, which are actually there to help them not to fall victim to the epidemics.
More epidemic problems = more problems for the Germans/Axis, hence this rumormongering would also be part of the Allied war-effort against the Axis.
Re: The Gas Vans and Typhus
Hektor wrote:It's actually very plausible that the (homicidal) gas van rumor is connected to delousing vans run by mobile squads. This is even noted in the foreign press and I think quite sincerely:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... 20Epidemic
Having 'special vans' driving around is ideal for spreading rumors that those vans are actually homicidal gas vans. And of course scaring people that then avoid coming near those vans, which are actually there to help them not to fall victim to the epidemics.
More epidemic problems = more problems for the Germans/Axis, hence this rumormongering would also be part of the Allied war-effort against the Axis.
Yes, very plausible. And deadly epidemics are always great food for atrocity propaganda anyway. Turning disease victims into alleged murder victims is a breeze. Serbia was seriously devastated by typhus in 1915 and some Allied propagandists claimed in early 1916 that the Central Powers had just slaughtered very numerous Serbian civilians in gas chambers.
"[Austen Chamberlain] has done western civilization a great service by refuting at least one of the slanders against the Germans
because a civilization which leaves war lies unchallenged in an atmosphere of hatred and does not produce courage in its leaders to refute them
is doomed. "
Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung, on the public admission by Britain's Foreign Secretary that the WWI corpse-factory story was false, December 4, 1925
because a civilization which leaves war lies unchallenged in an atmosphere of hatred and does not produce courage in its leaders to refute them
is doomed. "
Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung, on the public admission by Britain's Foreign Secretary that the WWI corpse-factory story was false, December 4, 1925
Re: The Gas Vans and Typhus
curioussoul wrote:The only evidence for gas vans is the Turner Letter, which calls them "delousing vans" (with quotation marks). How much evidentiary value you want to ascribe to this letter and the quotation marks obviously depends on whether you already believe the gas van hoax.
The Becker and Just documents are more explicitly about gas vans. Although the documents are fake.
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