BBC: The other side gets an airing

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Kingfisher
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BBC: The other side gets an airing

Postby Kingfisher » 1 decade 5 months ago (Thu Dec 27, 2012 2:02 pm)

Tonight 9.00 on BBC1, for those with access to UK TV. Probably available for a week after on the I-player. The below is taken from the Radio Times:

It was while he was investigating the famously frosty relationship between Churchill and Roosevelt that he came across a corner of history that no one had really investigated. A reference to Churchill's dirty tricks led the novelist to a covert operation mounted by the British secret service in 1940-41 to manipulate and penetrate the news media in the U S to influence public opinion in favour of joining the war.

At the time 8 out 0f 10 Americans were against intervening in the fighting in Europe, and Churchill believed they had to be persuaded otherwise.

"Churchill was adamant when he became Prime Minister that if we didn't get the Americans involved we wouldn't win the war. He ordered this operation to be set up and provided the funds, and they were very succesful. ...

"That's why it became an embarassing secret after the war because they were our allies and we didn't want them to know that as many as 3000 agents were working in the U S on behalf of the British Secret Service."...


Eva is sent to America where she successfully plants false stories in American newspapers and radio stations claiming that Hitler has designs on Mexico and the war is coming to America's backyard. She also acts as a honey trap having an affair with one of President Roosevelt's keys advisors. According to [the author] everything Eva does in America both in the book and the television drama is based on real events.
"It's all documented in this extraordinary manuscript that I found about the British security coordination operation in the U S written by 4 or 5 of its former members. They only published 12 copies and 1 of them was for Churchill. It was an unofficial memoir of what they got up to. One of the authors was Roald Dahl who spent part of the war working at the head quarters at the Rockefeller Center in New York. It was astonishing what they got up to mounting smear campaigns about key members of the American isolationist movement. No wonder they had to brush it under the carpet. The Washington Post later described it as possibly one of the most successful covert operations in the history of espionage.


[Edited for typos. Originally a mixture of copy-typing and dictation.
Last edited by Kingfisher on Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:07 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: BBC: The other side gets an airing

Postby Hektor » 1 decade 5 months ago (Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:41 pm)

They should investigate the pre-war era a bit. Especially meddling in Poland and some other countries.

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Re: BBC: The other side gets an airing

Postby Haldan » 1 decade 5 months ago (Thu Dec 27, 2012 5:17 pm)

Funny how they almost got Franklin's name right too.

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Re: BBC: The other side gets an airing

Postby Kingfisher » 1 decade 5 months ago (Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:00 am)

Posted in error. Please delete.
Last edited by Kingfisher on Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: BBC: The other side gets an airing

Postby Kingfisher » 1 decade 5 months ago (Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:00 am)

Haldan wrote:Funny how they almost got Franklin's name right too.

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That was my typo.

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Re: BBC: The other side gets an airing

Postby Kingfisher » 1 decade 5 months ago (Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:03 am)

Hektor wrote:They should investigate the pre-war era a bit. Especially meddling in Poland and some other countries.

Yes. We hear quite a lot about Munich but almost nothing about Danzig. All we get is "Hitler invaded Poland." Never any background.

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Re: BBC: The other side gets an airing

Postby Hektor » 1 decade 5 months ago (Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:18 am)

Kingfisher wrote:
Hektor wrote:They should investigate the pre-war era a bit. Especially meddling in Poland and some other countries.

Yes. We hear quite a lot about Munich but almost nothing about Danzig. All we get is "Hitler invaded Poland." Never any background.

And how "Hitler" breached Munich, right? While in fact he didn't.

Hitler explains in detail:
http://archive.org/details/HitlerAntwor ... 1939-04-28

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Re: BBC: The other side gets an airing

Postby Kingfisher » 1 decade 5 months ago (Fri Dec 28, 2012 2:29 pm)

Hektor wrote:
Kingfisher wrote:
Hektor wrote:They should investigate the pre-war era a bit. Especially meddling in Poland and some other countries.

Yes. We hear quite a lot about Munich but almost nothing about Danzig. All we get is "Hitler invaded Poland." Never any background.

And how "Hitler" breached Munich, right? While in fact he didn't.

Hitler explains in detail:
http://archive.org/details/HitlerAntwor ... 1939-04-28

I can't read German--not fluently, anyway. They can make a case, since Germany occupied the non-German rump of Bohemia when CS broke up. The other side of the coin, which we never hear, is that given war was a real possibility Germany had little choice but to occupy that rump, to shorten its line of defence, facilitate its own internal communications and fill a dangerous vacuum--an area that could have allowed Soviet planes to strike at the heart of Germany. It was not simple imperialist expansion.

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Re: BBC: The other side gets an airing

Postby Hektor » 1 decade 5 months ago (Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:10 pm)

You only have to listen not to read :)

The case would be that Germany's territorial demands have been saturated with the Sudetenland and that no further territorial demands would follow. But that's pretty hypothetical, since any agreement is essentially conditional. The case of Bohemia and Moravia is also a bit different, then Germany simply invading it. Actually the Czech government under Emil Hacha ask the Germans to do so. One should recall that Poland did already a part of Czechoslovakia as well violently driving out the Czechs there.

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Re: BBC: The other side gets an airing

Postby Kingfisher » 1 decade 5 months ago (Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:48 pm)

It's not a documentary, of course, but a drama based on a novel. However there is an interesting revisionist thesesis behind the plot: that the Soviet Union didn't want America in the war, because "Europe was to be Russia's".

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Re: BBC: The other side gets an airing

Postby Hektor » 1 decade 5 months ago (Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:57 am)

Apparently the Germans found gas ammunition in Czechoslovakia. Hitler mentions this in the speech above.

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Re: BBC: The other side gets an airing

Postby Haldan » 1 decade 5 months ago (Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:18 am)

Hektor wrote:
Kingfisher wrote:
Hektor wrote:They should investigate the pre-war era a bit. Especially meddling in Poland and some other countries.

Yes. We hear quite a lot about Munich but almost nothing about Danzig. All we get is "Hitler invaded Poland." Never any background.

And how "Hitler" breached Munich, right? While in fact he didn't.

Hitler explains in detail:
http://archive.org/details/HitlerAntwor ... 1939-04-28


Same speech with English subtitles:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO4A3ppu3sA[/youtube]

The first part isn't subtitled. It becomes more interesting the longer one listen to it.
To get to the next part, just use a search query like so:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... +13+HITLER

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Re: BBC: The other side gets an airing

Postby Hektor » 1 decade 5 months ago (Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:30 am)

I presume this is a whole series of videos. The full speech being one and a half hours long.
I found Hitler's declaration of war on the US, yesterday. Need to listen to that one as well.

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Re: BBC: The other side gets an airing

Postby Haldan » 1 decade 5 months ago (Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:26 pm)

Hektor wrote:I presume this is a whole series of videos. The full speech being one and a half hours long.
I found Hitler's declaration of war on the US, yesterday. Need to listen to that one as well.


Yes, unfortunately series of 13 videos. I think this speech in question is one of the best speeches by Hitler. It's quite different to the Hitler prodded out by the mainstream media: calm, logic and as always - excellent points. No wonder they try to keep away from this stuff and merely plays speeches of him "raging" :roll:

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Re: BBC: The other side gets an airing

Postby Hektor » 1 decade 5 months ago (Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:47 pm)

Haldan wrote:
Hektor wrote:I presume this is a whole series of videos. The full speech being one and a half hours long.
I found Hitler's declaration of war on the US, yesterday. Need to listen to that one as well.


Yes, unfortunately series of 13 videos. I think this speech in question is one of the best speeches by Hitler. It's quite different to the Hitler prodded out by the mainstream media: calm, logic and as always - excellent points. No wonder they try to keep away from this stuff and merely plays speeches of him "raging" :roll:
,,,

I was wondering about this myself. When a Hitler speech is shown, it is usually a part were he's kind of raging, with or without the pitch shifted to enhance voice effects. But if you take a survey listening to speeches in general, you'll notice that he makes reasonable points on the subject at hand. When I am listening to that, I also wonder why people belief all that nonsense commonly peddled. However I think Hitler's points must be put under scrutiny with questions.
Is what he says true?
Is he making valid points or claims?
Does he perhaps leave out things that show a different picture.
To my knowledge no fair hearing of that kind was ever given to him.


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