Auschwitz and the changing number of deaths

[Creox]

Hello!

I have been under the impression that the changing plate in Auschwitz from 4 million to 1.5 million was done as new information came forward and could not be ignored by historians.

I've been having a brief discussion online with a fellow that states the 4 million were always propaganda and that some historians from the 1950's thought only about a million had died there...and that this doesn't effect the six million number of course.

Has anyone have thoughts on this?

Cheers.

[Lamprecht]

http://codoh.com/library/document/2375/

Inmate deaths at Auschwitz were carefully recorded by the camp authorities on certificates that were bound in dozens of death registry volumes. Each "death book" (Sterbebuch) contains hundreds of death certificates. Each certificate meticulously records numerous revealing details, including the deceased person's full name, profession and religion, date and place of birth, pre-Auschwitz residence, parents' names, time of death, and cause of death as determined by a camp physician.
...
The death registry volumes fell into Soviet hands in January 1945 when Red Army forces captured Auschwitz. They remained inaccessible in Soviet archives until 1989, when officials in Moscow announced that they held 46 of the volumes, recording the deaths of 69,000 Auschwitz inmates.

These 46 volumes partially cover the years 1941, 1942 and 1943. There are just two or three volumes for the year 1941, and none at all for the years 1944 or 1945.[2] It is not clear why so many volumes are still missing. According to informed International Red Cross officials, the most likely explanation is that they were misplaced by the Soviets, and might therefore turn up later. (There is no indication that Auschwitz camp authorities made any effort to destroy any of the volumes.)[3]

More information can be found here:
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndstats.html
http://www.historiography-project.com/m ... losses.php

[Kingfisher]

Both Hilberg and Dawidowicz give Auschwitz deaths as 1 million. It is true that orthodox historians didn't accept the 4 million propaganda figure. If they had they would have had to come to well over 6 million for their total!

I think it is Graf who has a table somewhere comparing how Hilberg and Graf arrive at their respective totals. The big difference is for Majdanek where Dawidowicz accepts the absurd Soviet total of 1.3 million whereas Hilberg settles for a more realistic 50 thousand.

[Creox]

Thank you both for your responses. I was aware of the Red Cross numbers and brought them up in my discussion online. It started innocently enough but when I said the six million number was not even close and that it has been used for over a hundred years by Jews I was set upon.

So Kingfisher...You are saying that the number they would have had to come up with if they stuck with the 4 million number would have profoundly raised the magical six million number?

[Hannover]

It started innocently enough but when I said the six million number was not even close and that it has been used for over a hundred years by Jews I was set upon.

Have them read these:
mythical '6,000,000' planned / promoted in the 1800s
and:
The Six Million, Six Million Times / beginning in 1869

Challenge them to debate here, they have no chance.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.

[Carto's Cutlass Supreme]

Raul Hilberg put the figure at 1 million in his 1961 edition of Destruction of the European Jews. It's an attempt to make the myth believable, by lowering the number.

The 4 million number has Soviet/Jewish propaganda roots, but by having all these inflated numbers at so many camps, Rachel Auerbach (one of the people who helped create the myth) lamented that it would be more Jews than were ever were in Europe.

[Kingfisher]

I think it is Graf who has a table somewhere comparing how Hilberg and Graf arrive at their respective totals.

Sorry for my slip. Of course I meant Hilberg and Dawidowicz.

[Kingfisher]

So Kingfisher...You are saying that the number they would have had to come up with if they stuck with the 4 million number would have profoundly raised the magical six million number?

Well, Hilberg and Dawidowicz both reached 5-6 million with 1 million at Auschwitz. Do the maths. Reitlinger, of course came to an overall total of not much above 4 million.

[Kingfisher]

Rachel Auerbach (one of the people who helped create the myth) lamented that it would be more Jews than were ever were in Europe.

Vassili Grossman originally alleged 3 million killed at Treblinka and Soviet propaganda 2 million at Majdanek (later reduced to 1.3 million -- current official figure 78 thousand of whom not more than 50 thousand Jews).

[Creox]

It started innocently enough but when I said the six million number was not even close and that it has been used for over a hundred years by Jews I was set upon.

Have them read these:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=112
and:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6915

Challenge them to debate here, they have no chance.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.

They wouldn't even debate me with my simple request to talk about the numbers.

It was interesting now that I think about it. The responses I got from everyone were reactionary. They did not question why I thought the way I do or what evidence I had etc. It was just that I was completely wrong and a denier. When I asked for a conversation or posted my evidence for my reasoning there was no rebuttal at all. Kind of a Pavlovian scenario imo.

[Creox]

So Kingfisher...You are saying that the number they would have had to come up with if they stuck with the 4 million number would have profoundly raised the magical six million number?

Well, Hilberg and Dawidowicz both reached 5-6 million with 1 million at Auschwitz. Do the maths. Reitlinger, of course came to an overall total of not much above 4 million.

I hear ya. thanks for that.

When I posted figures for the Red Cross documents I think I could have heard a pin drop...lol.

[ginger]

Carlo Mattogno in Auschwitz A Case for Sanity at page 514 discusses the numbers

https://archive.org/details/CarloMattog ... Sanity2010

The Soviet Commission of Investigation early on said that about 9,000 were cremated at Auschwitz EACH DAY which accounted for the 4 million figure and that figure survived for 45 years as official history. How could they cremate 9,000 a day with 46 cremation retorts and with limitations on the cremation equipment? Mattogno's estimation of the death toll at Auschwitz is based on common sense - don't kill more people than you can cremate. In The Cremation Ovens of Auschwitz. .
he estimates 162,000 died at Auschwitz

[Hannover]

How could they cremate 9,000 a day with 46 cremation retorts and with limitations on the cremation equipment?

Due to constant repairs, down time, etc., 38 was the most ever available at the same time.
It goes from the ridiculously impossible to the absurdly impossible.

Science is the enemy of the 'holocaust' storyline.

And don't blame Revisionists, we didn't make this crap up.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

The tide is turning.

[Carto's Cutlass Supreme]

Hi Ginger, I looked at that interesting passage from Mattogno's Sanity, but I don't see where Mattogno gives his own estimates. I did a keyword search on 162,000 and found nothing. Where do you see that?

[Carto's Cutlass Supreme]

Oh, I see. 134,000 Jews, on page 535. It is a shocking and huge number.