'Boots' of the D Icke forum / 'gas chambers'

[georgesmiley]

Hello

first post here

I have come from the D Icke forum which has a forum dedicated to poitical manipultion on which are several
holocaust threads

but this one is most recently addressed http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=175373

someone called boots thinks he has provided enought evidence to debunk leuchter and rudolf (probably using nizkor as a source but maybe not)

see initial submission : http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1061404220&postcount=4512

First off Leuchter is a liar. He does get one thing correct, as does Rudolf, which is that there were both Gas chamber's and Delousing Chamber's.

This is not disputed by so called 'revisionist'.

1. Fred, tells everyone that he is an engineer and a scientist, he is neither. He is a lair.


Quote:
This is a verbatim quote from the cross-examination of Fred Leuchter, "revisionist scholar", "engineer and scientist"


Q: Now, Mr. Leuchter, Mr. Christie, when he was reviewing your qualifications, said that, if my note is correct, you graduated from university in a field that entitles you to function as an engineer and you responded in the affirmative to that question?
A: Yes. I have a Bachelor of Arts degree.
Q: You graduated with a Bachelor of Arts degree?
A: Right.
Q: When?
A: You mean what year?
Q: What year?
A: 1964.
Q: 1964. And that's the only University degree you have?
A: That's correct.
Q: You don't have a Bachelor of Science degree?
A: No.
Q: You don't have a Master of Science degree; you don't have a Ph.D in science?
A: Correct.
Q: You don't have a degree in engineering?
A: That's correct.
Q: Do you belong to any suprevising disciplinary professional body?
A: I don't understand the question, counsellor.
Q: Well, do you belong to a governing body of engineers?
A: I -- governing body? I do not understand. Are you saying do I belong to any scientific societies?
Q: No, is there any body of engineers that supervises you and disciplines you in your engineering function?
A: No.
<end quote from trial>
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/l/leuchter-fred/


What a penis

At trail Fred said this.


Quote:
Leuchter continues to make an idiot of himself, proving he knows nothing about Zyklon-B, HCN, the concentrations and the exposure times involved in delousing. In short, he knows nothing.



The following proves that Leuchter's analysis of the cyanide residues in the remains of the Auschwitz gas chambers is meaningless, as it was based on comparing those residues to the ones in the (intact) delousing chambers.



[Quoted verbatim from Leuchter's cross-examination by Pearson, in the Zündel trial, pages 9247-9250].



Q. So, on page seventeen when it says that rodents can be killed with only 1.2 grams grams per cubic metre, we're talking about a concentration in excess of 833 parts per million?



A. Most likely. I haven't read this thing again and I'm nor sure whether or not we're talking about the full weight or simply the gas.



Q. Well sir, would you agree with me that Degesh, the people who manufactured the product, say that rodents can be killed with only 1.2 grams per cubic metre and that's equivalent to three times the amount that is fatal for a human. Would you agree? We're talking about around nine-hundred parts per million. And three hundred---



A. Again, over what period of time, counsellor?



Q. Well, they are talking about a time of exposure that varies greatly from 2 to 72 hours. If you read what they've written, they say "various types of pests react differently to hydrocyanic acid. Rodents can be killed with only 1.2 grams per cubic metre," and then they say "Larger Bacon Beetles require twenty times as much. Times of exposure also vary greatly," so I suggest that they're talking about to kill beetles.


A. This may well be. I've never killed beetles. I, you know, I don't know. I haven't made computations for killing beetles.



Q. Well sir, I know you haven't but you've come here and you've told the jury some conclusions.



A. That's correct.



Q. and I want to ask you about your answer to me. I said it takes a higher concentration of hydrogen cyanide to exterminate insects than it does to kill human beings. You said no. We go to the Degesh manual and it says that it requires twenty times as much to kill beetles as to kill rats and it takes three times as much to kill rats than it does to kill humans.


A. Maybe it depends upon the insects. Most of the work that I've been looking at, they've been killing lice and ticks. And their recommendation for general fumigation purposes is three thousand parts per million.


Q. What is twenty times 833 parts per million?



A. What is twenty times 833 parts per million?



Q. Right.



A. 16,600.


Q. 16,600. So what Degesh are saying, the people who make the product, is that if you want to kill beetles, you should have a concentration of -- of what sir?



A. 16,600, apparently.



Q. Right. and it takes three hundred parts per million to kill a human being in a matter of minutes?



A. Or more
.
Q. In a matter of minutes.



A. Twenty minutes, fifteen minutes, yes.



Q. Right. And here they are talking about a time of exposure from 2 to 72 hours, right?


A. Right.



<end quote from trial>


http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/l/leuchter-fred/

Fred just demolished his own 'research' by stating he knows that there was little traces of Prussian Blue in the homicidal chambers for it take small amounts to kill Human's, however it takes large amounts to kill lice. Fred has stated in his 'research' that there was little traces of Prussian Blue in the homicidal gas chamber, therefore there couldn't have been mass killing, the guy's and idiot and I'm afraid to say those that take his 'research as fact are idiots too.


At the court case when he was a key witness for Neo Nazi Zundel, he again proved he was full of shit.

Read here. http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/l/...s-witness.html

Here is Fred telling more porky pies, this ones a beauty


Quote:
In testimony at the Zeundel trial in Canada, Leuchter presents himself as a businessman, doing business as an expert in his field. Here he is being questioned by his attorney, Douglas Christie:
Q: And what is your relationship with the operation of those facilities [i.e. gas chambers] in those two States [California and North Carolina]?

A: We consulted with both States, California primarily on a heart monitoring system to replace the older type mechanical diagraph stethoscope that's presently in use. We will be shipping to them shortly and installing a new heart monitor for both chairs in their gas chamber.



Q: You are consulted by the State, I understand?


A: Yes, Juan Vasquez.



Q: I see. And in North Carolina?



A: North Carolina. My discussions and work was with one Nathan Reise, and he had some work done by their maintenance personnel on their gas chamber two years ago, and they had a problem with the gasket on a door leaking. At which point, we discussed it with him and recommended remedial procedures to change the gas chamber.


Q: And he consults you in regard to those matters?



A: He does.

So, here we've seen Leuchter making certain claims about two prisons. Yet when a netter contacted these prisons, and asked them about Leuchter's claims, he was told:
"I can inform you, however, that San Quentin has not contracted with Fred A. Leuchter, Jr. for the installation of a heart monitoring system or for any other work." Signed: DANIEL B. Vasquez, Warden

"I discussed your request with Mr. Nathan A. RICE, Former Warden, and he stated that he vaguely recalled a telephone conversation between him and a gentleman professing to be an expert on execution chambers. Mr. Rice further state that the gentleman called him for the purpose of selling a lethal injection machine...



"Also, our records do not support that Mr. Leuchter performed either consulting or any service...I can attest that the planning and work was performed by the Department of Correction Engineering Section and our institution maintenance department." Signed: Gary T. Dixon, Warden NC

In short, Fred Leuchter is a liar, and seems to have purjured himself in the Canadian court. As you can see, it pays to check sources when it comes to this "expert" in gas chambers!


Quote:
A UseNet Response from Dr. Danny Keren
Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1993 15:56:58 GMT

This stuff has been posted here months ago, and refuted. There is a long file which addresses it more carefuly, but here are some major points:


1) Leuchter, who claims to be an "engineer", was exposed as a liar and a fraud. His only education consists of a BA in history, 1964. He admits to have no formal training in toxicology, biology, chemistry etc.


2) During his testimony at the Zundle trial in Canada, Leuchter not only lied about his professional past, he also ridiculed himself by proving not to have even a vague idea of what he is talking about. For instance, one of the claims Holocaust deniers make again and again is that there are less traces of cyanide compounds in the remains of the gas chambers in Auschwitz than in the "delousing chambers" in which clothes were deloused (using the same gas, hydrogen cyanide). As anyone with some training in toxicology knows, it takes a much higher concentration of the gas to kill lice, bugs etc than to kill humans and other warm blooded creatures (the concentration has to be up to 16,000 Parts Per Million; humans die when exposed to 300 PPM). Furthermore, to kill lice etc an exposure time of many hours is needed, while people die in minutes (like in the execution gas chambers in the US, which use exactly the same gas). Hence, it is obvious that there would be more cyanide traces in the delousing rooms.



When this fact was pointed out to Leuchter during his cross-examination by Mr. Pearson, he made the following pathetic reply:



"I've never killed beetles. I, you know, I don't know. I haven't made computations for killing beetles" [verbatim quote from the trial's transcript].



Furthermore, he claims that it would be dangerous to house the furnaces for cremating the victims in the same building in which the gas chambers were located, because the "gas might explode". Of course, he didn't even bother to check before exposing himself as a complete ignorant; the gas explodes at a minimal concentration of 56,000 PPM - about 200 times more than the lethal concentration (check, for instance, "The Merck Index" or any other text on flammability and toxicity).


Even more amazing is to read what he answered with regard to the current situation of the gas chambers in Auschwitz (demolished by the fleeing SS in an attempt to hide criminal traces):



Q. Crematoria III has been demolished.



A. Um, there are still parts of Crematoruim III there, but for the most part, the roof of the alleged gas chamber has crumbled and is all lying in bits and pieces in the basement of what would have been the alleged gas chamber.



Q. So, it's no longer subterranean?



A. That's correct. There's a hole in the ground.


Q. With respect to the gas chambers at Crematorium IV and V, those are totally demolished.



A. With the exception of the foundation, yes.


Q. So, all that was there for you to examine was the foundation of the building. Is that right?



A. That is correct.



Even more incredible is to see what Leuchter writes in his report:
"Evidence as to Krema function is non-existent since Krema's I oven has been completely rebuilt, Kremas II and III are partially destroyed with components missing, and Kremas IV and V are gone".
"Are gone"! Yet, he can still conjecture about how they functioned before being destroyed...



The whole "report" is more or less the same - rubbish disguised as "scientific research", written by an un-educated fool which doesn't even bother to check the facts before writing his nonsense.
-Danny Keren.


http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/l/leuchter-fred/

so there it is

anyone from codoh care to take this guy to task ? I hope so or else point me in the right direction

especially the emphasis on needing more zyklon b to kill lice/vermin than humans thus explaining why there was so little zb in the crema.

if you can help it would be a relief

[Hannover]

The quoted post by this foul mouthed 'Boots', obviously a boy, is filled with easily shot down lies.
excerpt:

He does get one thing correct, as does Rudolf, which is that there were both Gas chamber's and Delousing Chamber's. This is not disputed by so called 'revisionist'.

'Boots' lies. Not only disputed, but proven to be wrong. There were only delousing facilities / 'gas chambers'.

Read here; this thread demolishes this irrational little person's nonsense:
'Cyanide Chemistry at Auschwitz'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4111

Have him read that thread and debate us here ... where there is no name calling, no dodging, no subject changing, etc. He hasn't a chance.

Then search here for Keren. The poor sap, who this sleazy 'Boots' relies upon, has been utterly refuted at this forum and elsewhere. Danny Keren? Is this a joke?


The tide is turning.

- Hannover

[georgesmiley]

thanks for the reply which i have reposted the the icke forum

i expect him to ask me to go on rodoh or nizkor to debate

to diffuse the argument

it will be interesting if he appears here but i doubt it

[Enlightened Student]

Also maybe a class in proper grammar is due too before he makes a fool of himself over here....

[Hannover]

Yes, he can go elsewhere and use foul language, dodge challenges, change the subject, and generally refuse to debate in good faith. Only here is the playing field level ... and guys like that do not like a level playing field.
Tell him Hannover challenges him personally to debate here, and learn. What's he afraid of?

- Hannover

[georgesmiley]

here is response to the challenge

Why would I want to do that when there is enough Neo Nazi on this site.

Your obviously a meme-ber of that forum georgesmiley.




Quote:
tinyint...I would find it highly entertaining to read 'boots' getting spanked, but I doubt he has the guts to show up there.
He is fishing for the gullible fish.

It is in your deluded mind, you would think I'd be trying to influence peoples thinking about the Holocaust. Once someone has bought into the delusion posted by Neo Nazi, there is no changing that.

What is very telling about the DIF is the number of member's here who constantly reinforces the Holocaust themselves, an event that happened over 70 years ago, to bring up the Holocaust and try and debunk it, is propaganda, it is propaganda personified by Geobbel's and carried on through the ages by Nazi sympathizer's.

Holocaust denier's are all about hate, they hate Jews and blames Jews for all the worlds ill's. Holocaust denier's never take into account the other people who were targeted by the Nazi regime, they never accept the fact around 17 million other people were killed by the Nazi regime.

if you want his guts im afraid you need to get them on the d icke forum

which is the tactic i expected he would take

[Hannover]

The poor boy, full of weak excuses like the laughable 'Nazi' canard. Bottom line is that he's afraid to debate informed Revisionists.
On the OP concerning amounts of Zykon-B for insect vs. humans:
see: 'the lack of cyanide residue in the alleged 'gas chambers'
viewtopic.php?t=392

This is too easy. The tide is turning

- Hannover

[Haldan]

So his defense for not debating the issue of "gas chambers" is that there's enough "neonazis" on the forums of David Icke?
To me, that person seem to be afraid to debate the issue because he knows specifics will be demanded of him, and as it has been said already - namecalling, personal attacks and general foulness won't be tolerated here. What's with these guys seeing "neonazis" everyplace, anyway?

Regards,
-haldan

[Hannover]

The Boy said:

Holocaust denier's never take into account the other people who were targeted by the Nazi regime, they never accept the fact around 17 million other people were killed by the Nazi regime.

Revisionist have indeed looked at the claims about 'gypsies, 'homosexuals, 'Jehovah's Witnessess', etc. and guess what? Those absurd claims cannot be proven either. The poor lad talks because he has a mouth.

examples:

The homosexuals canard demolished below, I've thrown in the Gypsies lie as well:

'Gypsies and Homosexuals in the Camps'
viewtopic.php?t=1894

The Myth of a Nazi Extermination of Homosexuals by Jack Wikoff
http://www.cwporter.com/homo.htm

'Nazis left Dutch gays untouched, says historian'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7335&p=54308

homosexuals - Yad Vashem mistake? - Or is the Prof a Denier?
viewtopic.php?t=1930

the Gypsy 'extermination' Big Lie debunked
viewtopic.php?t=1744

Mattogno and the Gypsies
viewtopic.php?t=289

Gypsy charade at Auschwitz
viewtopic.php?t=1273

more:
'more of the homosexuals canard / Jews attack gay 'memorial''
viewtopic.php?t=4999
and:
homosexuals - Yad Vashem mistake? - Or is the Prof a Denier?
viewtopic.php?t=1930

The tide is turning.

- Hannover

[hermod]

The Exterminationists like to claim Leuchter is not a scientist. In fact his carreer was very sucessful and impressive (see below) until he wrote his famous report. Leuchter is an engineer, but not a "professional engineer" registered at '"The Board of Registration of Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors' of Massachusetts". In 1988 there were 55,000 engineers working in Massachusetts and only 5,000 of them were "professional engineers". So Leuchter was far from being an exception in that matter. The media and anti-revisionists used Leuchter's 'unregistration' to make him look like an incompetent expert and a swindler, what he wasn't. If Leuchter was a crook, why would Bill Armontrout, warden of the Missouri State Penitentiary, have come in front of a court and testified under oath that he had consulted with Leuchter on the design, maintenance and operation of the Missouri gas chamber, and confirmed that, to the best of his knowledge, Leuchter was the only such consultant in the United States?

Leuchter's qualifications as a technical expert and inventor are actually quite impressive. His adversaries never tire of repeating that his only academic credential is a bachelor's degree in history, which he earned at Boston University in 1964. This has never been a secret. What is not so well known, though, is the full story of his expertise.

For one thing, Leuchter did post-graduate study in celestial navigation mechanics at the Harvard-Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

Since 1965, he has worked as an engineer on projects having to do with electrical, optical, mechanical, navigational and surveying problems. He holds patents in the fields of optics, navigation, encoding, geodetic surveying and surveying instrumentation, including patents on sextants, surveying instruments and optical instrument encoders.

From 1965 through 1970 he was the technical director for a firm in Boston, where he specialized in airborne, opto-electronic, and photographic surveillance equipment. He designed the first low-level, color, stereo-mapping system for use in a helicopter, which has become an airborne standard.

In 1970, he formed an independent consulting firm. During his period with this firm, he designed and built the first electronic sextant and developed a unique, light-weight, compact and inexpensive optical drum sector encoder for use with surveying and measuring instruments. He also built the first electronic sextant for the US Navy. He has worked on and designed astro trackers utilized in the on-board guidance systems of ICBM missiles.

Because of his work in navigational devices he has had hands-on experience with surveying and geodetic measuring equipment and a thorough knowledge of map-reading and cartography. He is trained in reading and interpreting aerial photographs. He designed a computerized transit for surveying use, and several years ago he developed the first low-cost personal telephone monitor.

During the past 14 years, Leuchter has been a consultant to several state governments on equipment used to execute convicted criminals, including hardware for execution by lethal injection, electrocution, gassing and hanging. In the course of this work, he designed a new gas chamber for the state of Missouri, and he designed and constructed the first lethal injection machine for New Jersey. Leuchter has also been a consultant on execution procedures. He has held a research medical license from both state and federal governments, and has supplied the necessary drugs for use in execution support programs.

In 1987, he formed Fred A. Leuchter Associates, a consulting engineering firm specializing in general consulting and the design and construction of prototype hardware. He has been a forensic engineer consultant, and has testified as an expert in courts in the United States and Canada.

(On a more personal note, Fred Leuchter is an accomplished pianist and musician, as well as a certified small arms instructor and NRA expert marksman.)

More to the point, Leuchter's expertise in precisely the field of execution hardware is a matter of public record, and has been authoritatively and publicly confirmed. Indeed, no one was better qualified to carry out his investigation. At that time, Leuchter was recognized as the foremost American expert on the design and fabrication of gas chambers and other hardware used to execute criminals in the United States. He has worked on and designed facilities used to kill condemned criminals with hydrogen cyanide gas, the same gas supposedly used to kill many hundreds of thousands of Jews at Auschwitz.

Leuchter's expertise as the nation's foremost specialist of execution hardware, including gas chambers, has been abundantly confirmed. William Armontrout, warden of the Missouri State Penitentiary, testified on this matter during the 1988 "Holocaust Trial" of Ernst Zündel. As warden, Armontrout supervised the state's execution gas chamber. He testified under oath that he had consulted with Leuchter on the design, maintenance and operation of the Missouri gas chamber, and confirmed that, to the best of his knowledge, Leuchter is the only such consultant in the United States.

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p421_Weber.html

[Hannover]

Unfortunately for those who wish Leuchter's work hadn't shattered their childish fantasies about homicidal 'gas chambers', there is much more in the thread linked below which debunks their bizarre wishful thinking.

Revisionists are just the messengers, the complete stupidity of the impossible 'holocaust' story line is the message.

- Hannover

see:
'now available !!! 'The Leuchter Reports. Critical Edition'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7388&p=54816

excerpt:

In general, the attempts to discredit the expert opinion of the foremost gas chamber expert in the United States, Fred Leuchter, can best be described as acts of desperation on behalf of various Jewish supremacist individuals and institutions who profit and benefit immensely from the impossible 'holocaust' storyline.

Leuchter's academic credential is a BA in History from Boston University, however, this list of Leuchter's vast technical / mechanical experience has been conveniently dismissed by Believers:

- He did post-graduate study in celestial navigation mechanics at the Harvard-Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
- Since 1965, Leuchter has worked on engineering projects pertaining to electrical, optical, mechanical, navigational and surveying problems.
- From 1965 through 1970 he was the technical director for a firm in Boston, where he specialized in airborne, opto-electronic, and photographic surveillance equipment.
- He designed the first low-level, color, stereo-mapping system for use in a helicopter, which has become an airborne standard.
- In 1970, he formed an independent consulting firm where he designed and built the first electronic sextant and developed a unique, light-weight, compact and inexpensive optical drum sector encoder for use with surveying and measuring instruments.
- He built the first electronic sextant for the US Navy and has worked on and designed astro trackers utilized in the on-board guidance systems of ICBM missiles.
- He designed a computerized transit for surveying use.
- From his variety of experience in these earlier works, he developed an extensive knowledge of surveying, geodetic measuring, map-reading and cartography.
- Since 1978, Leuchter had been a consultant to several state governments on equipment used to execute convicted criminals, including hardware for execution by lethal injection, electrocution, gassing and hanging.
- He designed a new gas chamber for the state of Missouri. He also designed and constructed the first lethal injection machine for New Jersey.
- He has been a consultant for execution procedures in various states.
- He has held a research medical license from both state and federal governments, and has supplied the necessary drugs for execution programs.
- In 1987, he formed Fred A. Leuchter Associates, a consulting engineering firm that specializes in general consulting and the design and construction of prototype hardware.
- He has testified as an expert forensic engineer consultant in courts in the United States and Canada.
- Leuchter's unmatched expertise in the field of execution hardware rendered him the most qualified to conduct his investigation.
- He has worked on and designed facilities used to kill condemned criminals with hydrogen cyanide gas -- the same gas alleged to have been used to kill millions of Jews.
- His reputation as "the nation's leading expert in the mechanics of execution" has been abundantly confirmed by various publications and qualified sources.

There are some who don't want this information known.

- Hannover

[Bob]

This "Boots" only copy and paste old stuff from various exterminationists sources, I personally addressed these false claims (or even lies) repeatedly in the various debates with exterminationists so I find this quite boring to do it again, this is never ending story, so only a small example from this certain "Boots"

Fred just demolished his own 'research' by stating he knows that there was little traces of Prussian Blue in the homicidal chambers for it take small amounts to kill Human's, however it takes large amounts to kill lice. Fred has stated in his 'research' that there was little traces of Prussian Blue in the homicidal gas chamber, therefore there couldn't have been mass killing, the guy's and idiot and I'm afraid to say those that take his 'research as fact are idiots too.

Prussian Blue is of course missing from all AHGCH in Auschwitz thus is impossible to find "traces of Prussian Blue" in AHGCH. This individual confused cyanide with Prussian Blue, but traces of cyanide can be present without any blue pigment of course, he obviously does not know. Leuchter reports are available here, so everybody can check if this nonsense or something similar to this - "there was little traces of Prussian Blue in the homicidal gas chamber" had been stated by Leuchter. In fact, what we have here is just another nonsense or maybe a lie from "Boots" + some ad hominem which he uses quite heavily as visible from his various posts since as far as I know, Leuchter never stated anything like this, he obviously knows what is Prussian Blue.

I actually doubt that debate with this individual is worth of time since he is just another incompetent defender of this myth about gassing of human beings without being able to show the mythical homicidal gas chamber in any form and how this device allegedly operated, but never mind, he is welcomed of course. For instance, he can start searching for alleged Zyklon B introduction holes in the alleged gas chambers of Auschwitz.

[Atigun]

I think that 'Boots' has made a very wise decision to stay on his 'home turf'. I don't think that his Nizkor cut and paste would make much headway here on CODOH. 'Boots' would most likely get his 'booty' spanked. (Sorry mods but puns are a failing of mine)

[blake121666]

What are you talking about Bob? That there is little prussian blue on the alleged HGC walls as one would expect is pretty much the main argument stated throughout the reference you link.

[Hannover]

Hi Blake, you said:

What are you talking about Bob? That there is little prussian blue on the alleged HGC walls as one would expect is pretty much the main argument stated throughout the reference you link.

I think you need to re-read Bob's post.

on point excerpt from Bob's post:

Prussian Blue is of course missing from all AHGCH in Auschwitz thus is impossible to find "traces of Prussian Blue" in AHGCH. This individual confused cyanide with Prussian Blue, but traces of cyanide can be present without any blue pigment of course ...

- Hannover