New info on KGB forgeries

[EtienneSC]

The following press article refers to KGB forgeries implicating Ukrainians in the killing of Jews:

In 2008, thousands of secret KGB documents were declassified in Ukraine. The files detailed horrific crimes against humanity by the Soviet Union in the 1930s during the mass famine.

But they also revealed evidence of how Russian intelligence agencies falsified reports and fabricated witness statements against Ukrainian liberation insurgents. In essence, they accused the Ukrainian nationalists of crimes that they demonstrably never committed.

One of these fake crimes was the murder of vast numbers of Jews. The dossier disclosed in devastating detail how the KGB falsified testimony.

This discovery was so significant that Valentyn Nalyvaichenko, then head of the Ukrainian security service, flew to Tel Aviv and delivered the files to his counterpart in Mossad and the Israel minister of Public Security.

https://www.thejc.com/lets-talk/all/russia-has-used-antisemitism-as-a-political-weapon-for-years-5KlH6yilhMXchkkObCLBCh

The article is by Mark Hollingsworth, author of Agents of Influence — How the KGB Subverted Western Democracies (Oneworld, 2023). It would be good to know more about this. Though it is presumably not the author's intention, it would tend to substantiate revisionist claims about the role of the Soviets in creating forgeries. Other instances of this came to the light after the fall of the Soviet Union in 1990 and have been covered in revisionist literature.

[Hektor]

I'd guess Soviet forgeries would be an interesting area of research. A compendium on this is still missing . There may however be several reasons why researchers haven't touched upon this during the last decades. First they realize that there was/is a Communist bias in academia and media. And then there is the obnoxious thing that one may have to cover 'anti-nazi' forgeries as well.

[hermod]

I must confess that I like teasing Holocaustians with comments such as "The Holocaust is the last territory in the entire universe where a document provided by the Soviets is still regarded as anything other than cheap toilet paper."

[Hektor]

I must confess that I like teasing Holocaustians with comments such as "The Holocaust is the last territory in the entire universe where a document provided by the Soviets is still regarded as anything other than cheap toilet paper."

The thing is that some obscure documents is the best they actually have. The other go to line is, "but look at the dead people at the camps". The later isn't used that often, when they try to play seriously. But it is a subtext of course. What trumps your tag line a bit, is that most folks have no idea about the USSR. They think that was only a country with another economic system (Socialism, Communism). Now it was a bit more than that. Saying 'bad things' about the USSR is not really popular in academia, though. And well. It was quite secluded until the late 1980s, too.

While I haven't seen Stalin T-Shirts, the "Soviet Star" was still acceptable in fashions. Imagine someone doing this with s Swastika.
Btw. There was some reporting on the USSR in the 1930s. But the bulk of vitriol was spewed against NS-Germany, it seems. It was rather suspicious. Since people indeed could travel to NS-Germany and leave the country without problem. There was also public access to statistics and government information. I mean, people could even visit the concentration camps.

[hermod]

I must confess that I like teasing Holocaustians with comments such as "The Holocaust is the last territory in the entire universe where a document provided by the Soviets is still regarded as anything other than cheap toilet paper."

The thing is that some obscure documents is the best they actually have. The other go to line is, "but look at the dead people at the camps". The later isn't used that often, when they try to play seriously. But it is a subtext of course. What trumps your tag line a bit, is that most folks have no idea about the USSR. They think that was only a country with another economic system (Socialism, Communism). Now it was a bit more than that. Saying 'bad things' about the USSR is not really popular in academia, though. And well. It was quite secluded until the late 1980s, too.

While I haven't seen Stalin T-Shirts, the "Soviet Star" was still acceptable in fashions. Imagine someone doing this with s Swastika.
Btw. There was some reporting on the USSR in the 1930s. But the bulk of vitriol was spewed against NS-Germany, it seems. It was rather suspicious. Since people indeed could travel to NS-Germany and leave the country without problem. There was also public access to statistics and government information. I mean, people could even visit the concentration camps.

Not trying to convince them (IMO, cultural marxists are just parasites beyond recovery) when I say that.

Just trying to have some fun with their hysterical anger.

[Hektor]

I must confess that I like teasing Holocaustians with comments such as "The Holocaust is the last territory in the entire universe where a document provided by the Soviets is still regarded as anything other than cheap toilet paper."

The thing ....even visit the concentration camps.

Not trying to convince them (IMO, cultural marxists are just parasites beyond recovery) when I say that.

Just trying to have some fun with their hysterical anger.
...]

Lots of the woke leftist are beyond reproach anyway, they are reprobates. Even if you changed their mind it wouldn't help a lot.

It's a bit different with many of the normies, though. Their false idea of history is essentially is what keeps them tolerating and cooperating in this, though. And that is why the narratives are pushed continuously.

The idea that society is going down the drain is however also obnoxious to normies. They'd realize that this course could not be changed anymore by conventional means. I scary idea to them.

[hermod]

[Hektor]

Perhaps the most disturbing was the question of where the card originated and the chain of possession that related to the card. That the signatures of the German officials on the card were real did not lead to the conclusion that the card itself was real. As Count Nikolai Tolstoy pointed out to Yoram Sheftel, the Israeli attorney who defended Demjanjuk in Israel, there was an entire Soviet KGB division known as Division 14 that dealt solely with the forgery of documents. Sheftel indicated that the components of such cards, including pre-signed Nazi signatures, were seized by Russian troops at the end of the war and were therefore available to the Soviets to make up false papers. The dubious road from post-war Poland to Soviet Russia to the U.S., to Israel and then to Munich in the hands of the persons involved did not inspire great confidence in its authenticity. The Soviets had a motive to discredit Demjanjuk as a Ukrainian anti-communist in Cleveland during the détente era and the opportunity to do so.
https://myworkvisa.com/usa/in-memory-of ... anjuk.html

There should be more information on this available. Including expert reports of foreign intelligence services. Perhaps the USSR/Russia did release information on this themselves.

That major intelligence services will forge documents to their liking is however self-evident.