Did Nazi Germany Research Mind Control?

[TonyB]

Hi,

The reason I ask the question in the subject line is as follows.

I am playing devil's advocate against my present belief with respect to the Nazi regime. For example, having read portions of DeGrelle's Hitler Democrat as well as other literature, it seems the character of the Nazi regime is manufactured for the masses by - well - International Jewry. Things like alleging who was responsible for the Katyn Massacre, what caused Hitler to go into Poland (Danzig Corridor), the so-called Holocaust, the Reichstag fire, and so on.

Seems to be all lies.

That being said, there is no doubt in my mind the United States and other countries have mind control programs (such as Paper Clip and MK Ultra). We are talking serious evil here.

Anyway, I have often heard the assertion that the United States mind control efforts were largely aided by its use of German scientists brought to the US after WW II.

If true, the Nazi regime was seriously evil in this regard.

But, is it true?

I have not really seen anyone refute the assertion.

[Hannover]

Anyway, I have often heard the assertion that the United States mind control efforts were largely aided by its use of German scientists brought to the US after WW II.

Reads like one of those 'diabolical Nazis' fantasies which say more about those given to fantasy than it says about the Nazis. I have seen nothing about "mind control" scientists brought to the US.
AFAIK, the scientists involved were from the fields of rocket engineering, encryption, aviation of all types, & weapons research.
Some thoughts:
- Please cite where this was heard.
- Is proof given?
- Use of psychology in warfare is hardly a German creation, but "mind control" will need to be defined for this discussion.
- If you think about it "mind control" can easily be achieved via advertising, emotional triggering, propaganda, forms of entertainment, 'news' reporting, the Big Lie technique of constant repetition of false information (a la the 'holocaust' storyline), etc., etc.

- Hannover

[Mkk]

Tony,

I'm fairly well read and I have never seen any such allegation.

The burden of proof is on the accuser, surely?

[TonyB]

Hi,

Hey, I am with you guys. I very much tend to doubt it.

You could do as I just did and google "MK Ultra Nazi Scientists."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra
Precursor experiments

In 1945 the Joint Intelligence Objectives Agency was established and given direct responsibility for Operation Paperclip. The program recruited former Nazi scientists.[14] Some of the recruited scientists had studied torture and brainwashing.[citation needed] Several former Nazi scientists had been identified and prosecuted as war criminals during the Nuremberg Trials.[15]

14)Walker, Andrew (2005-11-21). "UK | Magazine | Project Paperclip: Dark side of the Moon". BBC News. Retrieved 2010-03-26.
15)"Jewish Law - Articles ("The Ethics Of Using Medical Data From Nazi Experiments")". Jlaw.com. 1946-09-25. Retrieved 2010-03-26.[/quote]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-kaplan/mkultra-the-perversion-of_b_535231.html
After discovering the horrors of Nazi medical experimentation, the US devised the "Nuremberg code," which specifically forbade testing without informed consent; but, just as the Cold War made America employ Nazi scientists, it also made Nazi morality more acceptable. The Inspector General's report on MKULTRA mentioned that many people would find it "distasteful and unethical;" that it "raised questions of legality;" that it "placed the rights and interests of US citizens in jeopardy;" and that it could produce "serious adverse reaction in US public opinion." None of these were reasons not to do it, however - merely explanations for why "normal procedures for project approval, funding, and accounting were waived."

Tony

[atomMan]

hi Tony
you will probably get more in-depth answers from others, but here's my 2 cents on a couple things you mentioned...

paper clip wasn't a mind control program - it was, to my knowledge, a program to import key nazi scientists into the u.s. whilst avoiding public scrutiny (court trials, news papers, etc.)

as to who was brought on board, i only know of the rocket scientists (von braun, etc.), but i am sure there were others with very different backgrounds

NASA was apparently built on the backs of the german rocket guys

mind control is another matter, and all i can tell you is what i have heard...

we know about mk-ultra from documentation and, quite obviously, mind control is still very much in use today, particularly, i would say, in advertising and the news and entertainment media - what the military is doing with it is hard to say, but it would be a huge mistake to assume the technology has been abandoned

it is said that that, while the u.s. intel community at the time after ww2 had allot of traditional christian people with traditional christian beliefs, the russians weren't so encumbered

as such, the u.s. was interested more in the rocket guys and other more mainstream sciences, whilst the russians were interested in the more controversial sciences, such as remote viewing and, possibly, mind control (what government in the world would NOT be interested in mind control?)

so where then did mk-ultra come from?

here's the story, and i do not know if it is accurate...

first of all, i think it to be a fact that there was (and almost certainly still is) a remote viewing program - anyone doubting this hasn't done their quantum physics homework, or asked why RV'rs are used by law enforcement

i believe, through science, that in essence, the remote viewer is not seeing anything from a geographical position in which he is not present because he is present everywhere simultaneously, just like the rest of us, but that's another story

apparently during the cold war the CIA became aware that russian intel was in possession of very highly classified information and they couldn't figure out they got it

they (CIA) was aware of the russian RV program, which i suspect was imported from germany (i have probably come across evidence to better establish this claim, but i can't recall it at the moment) and allegedly they wondered if RV'ing might be a feasible technology, and so they started a program of their own

ingo swan is the claimed father of remote viewing, by the way, at least in the u.s.

it is then said that the CIA became interested in a particular target in russia that they had allot of difficulty in their efforts to gain intel, so they rolled the dice, took a chance on a technology that was largely shunned by the brass (traditional belief system), and tasked a viewer to take a look at the target

the viewer (and i don't recall who it was) described structures at the target area that didn't exist - the CIA knew this because they had aerials - and so everybody laughed and said what a stupid thing this remote viewing crap was

the objects the viewer described, which were big tanks as i remember, were constructed at the site AFTER the viewer had viewed the location

in other words, remote viewing is not restricted to the "now", which makes allot of sense when, again, you look at the work that has been done and is being done in, particularly, quantum physics

so that's the story, or at least one version, of how remote viewing, and possibly other non-mainstream sciences, migrated from germany to russia to the u.s.

by the way, if you have not yet seen the film "Staring at Goats", i highly suggest watching it!

it confirms allot of stuff that i suspect to be true and stuff which i know for a fact to be true

i think the opening statement is something like "more of this film is true than you would ever believe", and that's a fact

[hermod]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra

Some of the recruited scientists had studied torture and brainwashing.[citation needed]

Another baseless allegation on Nazi Germany...

The Allies didn't need any Nazi scientists for knowledge about mind control. They already had [the Jew] Edward Bernays and others who had vastly demonstrated their great abilities in the manipulation of the masses.

[atomMan]

Edward Bernays - now there's a name
quite the interesting and influential character in the shaping of american culture

Edward Bernays: Architect of the Consumer Mind
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkohEoc69og

[Kingfisher]

If you have an hour or two to spare check out Adam Curtis's The Century of the Self on YouTube. He starts with Bernays and goes on to examine the use of psychology for mass control throughout the 20th century.

[atomMan]

THAT is the docu i was looking for when i linked to the one i did!
yes, i've seen it - very informative... and depressing

the result of the work done regarding 'public relations' was used to sell all kinds of junk to people, some of the most revolting being the marketing of war - PR firm Hill & Knowlton was used to sell the Iraq war to an ignorant public, myself included at the time

not that the selling of the Iraq war was in any way a unique incident, but that one sticks out in my mind because of the lies about of Saddam's guard taking babies out of incubators and throwing them on the floor

incredible how effective marketing can be

[Hannover]

A classic in mind control:
http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/bernprop.html
Propaganda (1928)
by Edward Bernays

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra
Precursor experiments

In 1945 the Joint Intelligence Objectives Agency was established and given direct responsibility for Operation Paperclip. The program recruited former Nazi scientists.[14] Some of the recruited scientists had studied torture and brainwashing.[citation needed] Several former Nazi scientists had been identified and prosecuted as war criminals during the Nuremberg Trials.[15]

- "citation needed" indeed.
- 'Prosecuted at Nuremberg' is like being prosecuted in witchcraft trials. Hardly indicative of any real wrong doing.

The tide is turning.

- Hannover

[hermod]

THAT is the docu i was looking for when i linked to the one i did!
yes, i've seen it - very informative... and depressing

the result of the work done regarding 'public relations' was used to sell all kinds of junk to people, some of the most revolting being the marketing of war - PR firm Hill & Knowlton was used to sell the Iraq war to an ignorant public, myself included at the time

not that the selling of the Iraq war was in any way a unique incident, but that one sticks out in my mind because of the lies about of Saddam's guard taking babies out of incubators and throwing them on the floor

incredible how effective marketing can be

I think you'll maybe enjoy this documentary (http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/war-you-dont-see/) too.

[Kingfisher]

That's for that, Hermod. I've seen it before but you prompted me to watch it again. A superb film.

Pilger did something on the same lines 30 years ago, which he based on Philip Knightley's The First Casualty. He covers the role of the war correspondent from the Crimean War to the (then ) present day, with one very interesting and significant omission. After a little deconstruction of the"Spirit of the Blitz" he jumps, with no explanation, from London in 1940 to 1950 and Korea. I draw my own conclusions from this and you may choose to draw yours.

http://johnpilger.com/videos/the-search-for-truth-in-wartime

Part1 is of general interest. Part 2 is specific to the Falklands war.

Here is Pilger more recently on war propaganda, this time embeddable.


If the link is dead: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYM8CilvLIghttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYM8CilvLIg

[Hektor]

Here is a speech at a conference of a Robert Jay Lifton. It's about cults and "thought reform", which he's an expert on and that's what the talk is about:
https://archive.org/details/RobertJayLi ... alismCults

He also mentions "Nazi doctors", which he also wrote a book on, but he doesn't claim that they tried "mind control" or anything to this regard. If anyone would know about this and would have researched it, it would be him.

It's rather that the allies were engaged in "mind control", I mean they had a psychological warfare division. And it was going farther then that. They intended and implemented Reeducation in Germany.

I'd like to discuss what Lifton says in more detail, but this is more related to the Holocaust, hence will open a thread there.