Kurland:
I suspect that Lohengrin will ignore this post
Sorry to disappoint you Kurland, I was only – as some other folks this time of year – a few days on Holiday.
Let me first react on your original position:
The “delousing” or “extermination” camps of Treblinka Belzec Sobibor did not exist, plain and simple.
An interesting supposition, but after a bit logical thinking
totally mistaken. The
function of these camps can be called controversial, but the
existence is beyond any doubt. If you persist in questioning the
existence, you're on the wrong road.
Kurland argues as follows:
This is shown by the lack of physical evidence to support the existence of these camps, the falsehoods of the witnesses who were allegedy in these camps, and the complete absence of documents as evidence for the camps function. Before his arrest Germar Rudolf wrote that hardly any documents about these camps survive. Camp plans, registers, budgets, etc…were all missing.
Without noticing, Kurland bases his odd supposition a.o. on "falsehoods of the witnesses". That's pretty inconsequent, because he declared before all witnesses to be "liars". Also untrue is his claim "complete absence of documents as evidence for the camps function". I advise him to read (for example) a letter from July 15 '43 from Pohl to Himmler, wherein is stated that
"Durchgangslager Sobibor" is to be transformed to a Konzentrationslager instead of an Ammunition Workplace. Besides this, there plenty of proof for the
existence of these camps. To deny this is senseless. (Transport lists Westerbork-Sobibor, Letter Dir. Reichsbahn Ganzenmuller to Wolf, Polizei Rapport Vienna 20th of June 1942, etc., etc.)
Instead, these areas were more likely related to the labor camps that existed in the early 1940s all along eastern Lublin. These were not camps where hundreds of thousands of Jews were sent.
To assume that these camps - who were abandoned 1-1,5 year after completion - were Labor camps, is almost stupid.
Major disinfestation is not possible in these locations. There is no evidence to support it. There is much information and evidence which shows that these three key camps were labour camps or some other supporting role for the Jewish reservation in Lublin.
Please Kurland, give facts and/or arguments why "disinfestation was not possible. "You also fail to give even one example of what you call "much information", let alone "evidence" for these camps being
labour camps.
"those devilish genius nazi’s” also must have dismantled all traces of their transit camps according to Lohengrin. In his latest post Lohengrin actually writes that Treblinka II was a transit camp "with no or very simply" installations!!!
How can a camp which allegedly deloused 1 million plus deportees have no or very simply installations?!?
The number ("1 million plus deportees") is yours, Kurland (or you accepted it from those "lying Jews"). 'Delousing' is bathing, delousing clothes and changing clothes; there is no need for for big buildings and big installations who cannot simply be dismantled and carried off.
Kurland neglects my principal differentiation between a Transitlager and a Labor camp. A transitlager exists for a short period of time. Once the transition of people has taken place, it lost his function and can be demolished or transformed for another function (as were the plans for Sobibor, see correspondence between Pohl and Himmler). All useful prisoner goods were (one may expect) already sent to Germany or else. Such a camp is easy to dismantle.
This situation is completely different in case of a Labor camp. It needs large workspaces, housing, machinery, etc., etc., which cost much time to build and organize. It is utterly stupid to do so for temporary camps as Belzec, Chelmno, Treblinka and Sobibor were.
From Holland 33.000 Jews were transported to (conform Kurland) non existing Sobibor. If Kurland wants to know all names, date of births, date of those 33.000 people transported to Sobibor, he can simply order the
“Sobibor Transportlijsten” ISBN 9067075167, publisher “De Bataafsche Leeuw”, Amsterdam.
Nonsense. Lohengrin suggess that the Communist Jews Kaganovich and others like Beria would cover up their saving of millions of Jews and furthering the Zionist cause? Due to their wish to be elevated among their Zionists brothers they constantly announced the liberation of millions of Ukrainian Jews and few other European Jews as they pushed closer to Poland. That is how we know that the Einsatzgruppen killings did not happen.
Nonsens indeed – by Kurland. The fact that the Soviets boasted to have “liberated millions of Jews” in Ukraine, etc. can rather be seen as indication for the presence of hundreds of thousands Jews earlier transported there by the Germans into these territories. Otherwise, the Soviets had called them simply "Soviet-citizens".
My point is that none were ever allowed to communicate or contact anyone outside the USSR.
Could Lohengrin also identify why he finds Stangl and other tortured witnesses to be "more or less reliable"?
Nobody only speak lies, particularly not if some of the information they gave are verifiable true, for instance the period Stangl was Commandant in Treblinka. Can Kurland give any proof that Stangl in this period was somewhere else? Yes, lies, lies, lies; but not
only lies.
As wonderful revisionist author Wilhelm Staeglich wrote:
"Im Bezirk Lublin gab es bekanntlich - wie in der Auschwitz-Region - große Betriebe der Kriegswirtschaft, die auch zahlreiche Juden als Arbeiter beschäftigten."
That’s correct. But did Staeglich mention Belzec, Treblinka and Sobibor as such? Certainly not!
Lohengrin seems to be in complete dodge mode when debating with Barncat. He also has given a rude non-answer to Carto’s Cutlass Supreme question to see the “postcards” but can only rely on a hoaxter’s word. These “postcards”, if they do really exist, are likely to be related to the numerous labour camps set up in the Lublin district and other areas such as in the occupied Russia territories.
Completely laughable! Why 'postcards' between quotation marks? There were millions of it, face it, Kurland!
I want to debate with Barncat only if he is given decent answers first on questions I asked him. Otherwise its a waste of my time.
No, I gave NO “rude non-answer” to Carto’s Cutlass Supreme question to see the “postcards”. If he wants to, I can give him the name and address of the Dutch Sobibor Foundation and the collector I mentioned who is particularly interested in “postcards” from camps, included persons who were transported first to “Reinhardt” camps. That’s more, much more, than you gave us for your non-hypothesis. Remember, the 177 postcards Mattogno mentioned, were Only from Dutch Jews, Only from to Sobibor transported and Only received by some addressees.
And, as I said earlier, if there was only 1 such card, its enough to destroy your antithesis of “Reinhardt camps never existed”.
Even more surprising --or perhaps not-- is that Lohengrin relies more and more on the standard hoax tale. Lohengrin has relied on gas-chamber testimonies of tortured German defendants and deceitful jewish witnesses to support his point.
Nuts. Can't you read, Kurland? Why lying? Please give me ONE example – other than my before mentioned observation of Stangl as “more or less reliable” on one case? And please, give me ONE example were I showed trust in what you call “deceitful jewish witnesses”, or tortured German defendants. If I say people are lying, I will give proof for it. If they speak truth, I did verify that. Maybe you’re disappointed, but I’m not the kind who speaks in terms of “lying and deceiving Jews”, “lying nazi’s” and so on. And if I do, I give proof on the particular occasion.
In addition to “postcards” which he cannot show us –we must have the FAITH I guess—Lohengrin relies on a flimsy Polish source which states
This is an outright lie of yours, Kurland. I don't know of any Polish source for this item. You – as talkbackers do – have a custom every time you got information on a point that cannot be denied, to ask for more detailed information. There is nothing wrong with that, but don’t say - because I didn't give you what you only LATER asked for! –
“he cannot show us”. That’s a lie and deceitful way of discussing.
Do you want I deliver personally to you those cards and, if less than 1 million say “You didn’t give your proof, you’re a liar”? In this case I stop discussing and leave you in your World . . .
Take this for granted: for Jews transported from Holland to Sobibor exist cards from (a.o.) Walter and Gertrud Poppert (2x), Victor Bloemkoper, Elly Herschel, a.o. (A complete list of cards from Sobibor (Wlodowa) is to be seen in “Vernietigingskamp Sobibor” by J. Schelvis. If you want lots of more information, contact the Dutch Sobibor Foundation.
The total misconception of my reactions by Kurland is made clear by his supposition that I
in any way whatsoever assent to a “Final Solution”. A more stupid and unfounded one can hardly made.
For Lohengrin these two official documents highlighting Hitler’s wish to remove the Jews AFTER the war must be fake! During the same time as these documents were typed Lohengrin would say that the solution to the Jewish problem was underway as millions were being shipped off to Russia.
Completely invented nonsense. Of course I did not say that “millions” were being shipped off to Russia”. But I am convinced that hundreds of thousands could be moved there, as made clear in
The Second Babylonian Captivity. The Fate of the Jews in Eastern Europe since 1941, by Steffen Werner. Not to mention Hilberg, who (rightfully) said that “we only know 20% of the Holocaust; especially what happened in the USSR, is barely known.” Okay, Kurland will say Hilberg is only a Lying Jew, but in this case I agree with Hilberg ("more or less").
Besides that, there are very good reasons to suppose that the fate of the Jews in Russia is a
terra incognita, that needs to be investigated.
A bruise rule! To think people are being put in jail for not believing this drivel.