Evidence of disease/starvation for other Europeans?

[hermod]

I was just about to ask. What is the evidence or what clues do we have that some of the corpses shown in concentration camps were actually German prisoners of the Allies that were starved to death?
I recall pictures were the alleged victims of German atrocities did actually still were German uniform parts. Sometimes they were on truck trailers as well.

That kind of propaganda trick was used by the Allies. I remember I've read something about a German doctor forced to watch an Allied propaganda movie about "Nazi atrocities" in the aftermath of WW2. At one moment he saw himself in the movie and he understood he was watching corpses of German civilians incinerated alive by Allied bombs at Dresden (that German doctor had worked in Dresden after the famous Allied bombing).

pictures just have more shock value.

Something the Allied propagandists, including the photo forgers in their ranks, knew for sure...


http://incogman.net/2008/04/too-bad-the ... nt-page-1/

"We won this war with atrocity propaganda...and now we will start more than ever! We will continue this atrocity propaganda, we will increase it" - British chief propagandist Sefton Delmer to the German constitutional lawyer Prof. Friedrich Grimm, 1945.

"We are waging against Hitler a kind of total war of wits. Anything goes, so long as it serves to bring nearer the end of the war and Hitler's defeat. [...] I must warn you that in my unit we are up to all the dirty tricks we can devise. No holes are barred. The dirtier the better. Lies treachery, everything." (Sefton Delmer, Black Boomerang, p. 181)

The German constitutional lawyer Prof. Friedrich Grimm depicts in his book 'Political Justice' (pp. 146-148):

In May 1945, a few days after the collapse, I had a notable talk with an important representative of the opposite side. He introduced himself as a university professor of his country, who wanted to converse with me on the historical basis of the war. It was a conversation of high standing we conducted. Suddenly he dropped the subject, pointed to the leaflets lying on the table in front of me, we were flooded with during the first days after surrender, mainly circling around the concentration camp-horrors. "What do you say about it?" so he asked me.

I replied:

"Oradour and Buchenwald? With me you force an open door. I am a lawyer and condemn the wrong wherever I meet with it, more than all, when it happens on our side. I know, however, to make a distinction between the facts and the political use one makes of it. I know the meaning of atrocity propaganda. After World War I, I have read all publications by your experts on this subject, the writings of the Northcliff Bureau, the book of the French minister of the finances Klotz 'From War to Peace' (Paris, 1923), depicting how the story of the chopped-off children's hands was cooked up and what profit one got out of it, the enlightenment writings of the journal Crapouillot comparing the atrocity propaganda of 1870 with that of 1914-1918, and finally the classic by Ponsonby: 'The Lie in War' [Falsehood in Wartime], revealing that one had in the preceding war already magazines showing artificial corpse mountains by photomontage composed of dummies. These pictures were distributed, with a space left for caption. It was given out by telephone later on according to the needs from the propaganda centre."

Thereby I pulled out one of the leaflets exhibiting allegedly mountains of dead bodies out of the concentration camps, and showed it to my visitor, who looked at me taken aback.

I continued:

"I can not imagine that in this war with all weapons perfected to such an extent, this mentally toxic weapon should have been neglected that decided the outcome of World War I. More so, I know it for sure! The last months before the collapse I read daily the foreign press. There was reported on German atrocities from a central office, operating in a certain turn. There was one occupied territory after the other called to mind, today France, tomorrow Norway, then Belgium, Denmark, Holland, Greece, Jugoslavia and Czecho-Slovakia.

"First were reported hundreds of corpses in the concentration camps, then six weeks later when it was the turn of this same country again, thousands, then ten thousands, then hundred thousands. Here I thought to myself: this number inflation can not possibly skyrocket into the million! "

Now I reached for another leaflet: "Here you have the million!" There my visitor blurted out: "I see, I have run into an expert. Now I also want to tell you, who I am. I am not a university professor. I am of the central office you talked about: Atrocity propaganda – and with it we won the total victory."

That said.

American food policy in occupied Germany

In January 1946, 34 U.S. Senators petitioned that private relief organizations be allowed to help in Germany and Austria, stating that the desperate food situation in occupied Germany: "presents a picture of such frightful horror as to stagger the imagination, evidence which increasingly marks the United States as an accomplice in a terrible crime against humanity."

Criticism of the situation increased, Senator William Langer stated in a speech in the United States Congress:

“ ...among the crimes with which this (Nazi) leadership has been charged (at Nuremberg) is the crime of systematic and mass starvation of racial or political minorities or opponents.... Yet to our utter horror, we discover that our own policies have merely spread those same conditions...I hold in my hands absolutely authentic photographs which have been taken at the beginning of the winter in the city of Berlin. These photographs are interchangeable for horror with the photographs with which we became familiar from Dachau, Mauthausen, Buchenwald, and other extermination camps. These are photographs of children between the ages of 5 and 14...[17] ”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_f ... ed_Germany

I wonder where those pictures Senator Langer was talking about in 1946 are now. I guess they were just burned because they would have destroyed the myth of America as "the good guy" fighting "the good war" for the victory of "peace, liberty and humanity".

[Inquisitor]

http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/ ... 3b4446.jpg

Look at the helmet on the soldier to the right - it's about three sizes too small for his head! His helmet is sitting upon the top of his head like a derby for goodness sake!

It is also worth noting that those bodies on the ground, again, wear strictly civilian clothes, so could literally be victims of anything - or anyone, as it were.

I can't say if the photo is faked or not - it looks "off" but I'm no expert. But the above observations are what strike me.

[hermod]

It think it's the right place to add there exist documented evidence of Nazi orders to take measures reducing the death rate in German concentration camps, including Auschwitz, during WW2.

Moreover the International Red Cross reported that less than 300,000 died of all causes in all the German concentration camps during WW2. This might seem a lot to us. But it's good to remember that ten times that number of people died of typhus in Poland alone during and in the immediate aftermath of WW1.

Any photos of piles of bodies of German troops killed by Typhus? Perhaps no one wanted to take such photos because it just reduces morale?

Perhaps the Germans didn't pile their own dead comrades as the Allied propagandists of the Psychological Warfare Divisions did with the typhus corpses found in the last German concentration camps in operation. I'm pretty sure the Germans just buried their dead friends respectfuly in individual graves.


Photographer Margaret Bourke-White "documenting" the 'Holocaust' for posterity...or for the U.S. Syke War's atrocity propaganda more exactly

And had such pictures really existed, they would have been destroyed a long time ago anyway, the same way the photographs of Berlin starved children just 'dispappeared' between 1946 and now (see my previous comment).

[Hektor]

....

Any photos of piles of bodies of German troops killed by Typhus? Perhaps no one wanted to take such photos because it just reduces morale?

Perhaps the Germans didn't pile their own dead comrades as the Allied propagandists of the Psychological Warfare Divisions did with the typhus corpses found in the last German concentration camps in operation. I'm pretty sure the Germans just buried their dead friends respectfuly in individual graves.


Photographer Margaret Bourke-White "documenting" the 'Holocaust' for posterity...or for the U.S. Syke War's atrocity propaganda more exactly

And had such pictures really existed, they would have been destroyed a long time ago anyway, the same way the photographs of Berlin starved children just 'dispappeared' between 1946 and now (see my previous comment).

Who says they found those corpses in a German concentration camp? I'm posing the hypothesis that especially those on trailers may be starved German prisoners transported there for the purpose of propaganda. I can't prove this beyond reasonable that, but neither can the Allies, who have far more resources then me, prove the opposite. And they clearly were there for propagandistic purposes.

Another clue may be that some of the corpse piles consist of man in military age (20 to 50).

[hermod]

Who says they found those corpses in a German concentration camp? I'm posing the hypothesis that especially those on trailers may be starved German prisoners transported there for the purpose of propaganda. I can't prove this beyond reasonable that, but neither can the Allies, who have far more resources then me, prove the opposite. And they clearly were there for propagandistic purposes.

Another clue may be that some of the corpse piles consist of man in military age (20 to 50).

Possible. The Allies had loads of 'material' to do that (http://winstonsmithministryoftruth.blog ... f5d5d39307) and they had used photographs of piled dummies for propaganda purposes during the previous world war.

[fountainhead]

Criticism of the situation increased, Senator William Langer stated in a speech in the United States Congress:

“ ...among the crimes with which this (Nazi) leadership has been charged (at Nuremberg) is the crime of systematic and mass starvation of racial or political minorities or opponents.... Yet to our utter horror, we discover that our own policies have merely spread those same conditions...I hold in my hands absolutely authentic photographs which have been taken at the beginning of the winter in the city of Berlin. These photographs are interchangeable for horror with the photographs with which we became familiar from Dachau, Mauthausen, Buchenwald, and other extermination camps. These are photographs of children between the ages of 5 and 14...[17] ”

I wonder where those pictures Senator Langer was talking about in 1946 are now. I guess they were just burned because they would have destroyed the myth of America as "the good guy" fighting "the good war" for the victory of "peace, liberty and humanity".

This is precisely the sort of thing I was after! Though, I think considering the source of the quote, that's almost as good as an actual picture. Not likely a U.S. senator would be using a picture forged in favor of the Germans and that reflects badly on the Americans. However, my instinct tells me that citing the often ruthless Allied treatment of Germans after the war will fall on deaf ears, as opponents will just pass it off as justified revenge for the crimes of the Germans. Better to address those supposed crimes first. For that, Kramer's letter seems particularly devastating, assuming it's genuine. I'm saving that one for my personal revisionism collection!

[hermod]

This is precisely the sort of thing I was after! Though, I think considering the source of the quote, that's almost as good as an actual picture. Not likely a U.S. senator would be using a picture forged in favor of the Germans and that reflects badly on the Americans. However, my instinct tells me that citing the often ruthless Allied treatment of Germans after the war will fall on deaf ears, as opponents will just pass it off as justified revenge for the crimes of the Germans. Better to address those supposed crimes first. For that, Kramer's letter seems particularly devastating, assuming it's genuine. I'm saving that one for my personal revisionism collection!

About Belsen, the place where the most horrific "Holocaust pictures" were photographed and filmed, it's good to ask opponents why British officers first refused to taker over that camp (as offered and even requested by the Germans) and then chose to burn it down if the terrible scenes seen there were due to intentional starvation and mistreatment as we are told by "holocaustians", not to typhus and other diseases as revisionists state. Are starvation and mistreatment contagious so that it was necessary to burn the Belsen camp to the ground? Or are pictures of a titanic health disaster due to Germany's collapse deceitfully sold to us as visual evidence of "the Holocaust", "Nazi brutality", "an extermination policy of the Jews" and "mistreatment and starvation of the prisoners in German concentration camps"?

Belsen burning...





















Interestingly, when the British army entered the Belsen camp, it took a few days before the British propagandists realize what a great propagandistic opportunity the Belsen health disaster was for them and before they go from typhus to starvation and "Nazi brutality". During the 1st days after the capture of Belsen, that camp was called "the Black Hole of Belsen" and a "notorious typhus camp near Hannover" in the British newspapers. Then typhus disappeared from the newspapers, and only starvation, "Nazi brutality" or even gas chambers were 'reported' (http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t917003/#post10634931).

Typhus was an enemy the British still feared during WW2 (http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article ... y|||sortby) even if it gave them a total ideological victory over National Socialism at the end...

[fountainhead]

I've finally found some evidence myself, kind of. I was watching David McCalden's Holocaust Reivisionism for Beginners (below) and at about 26:20 he shows part of the book Nemesis at Potsdam, by Alfred-Maurice de Zayas, dealing with the conditions of German refugees after the war, which weren't all that different from the concentration camps, not to mention being hunted by angry Soviets and other enemies. They, like the camp inmates, appear emaciated and can be seen looking through the trash for food. David also showed a picture of a child being sprayed with DDT, indicating that disease was a problem for more than just the camp inmates.



Also found this picture, from the same book, of three starving German refugee children expelled from a Danzig orphanage:



Pity I can't find an online version of the book so I can look at the pictures more closely, but this does help prove that the starvation and disease in the camps wasn't deliberate.

[hermod]

Also found this picture, from the same book, of three starving German refugee children expelled from a Danzig orphanage:

Two of these German children had their head shaved, so proving typhus was a major issue for German civilians even with Allied DDT, etc.

[Hektor]

And this creation is so obviously fake that it makes one chuckle. Looks like 3 photos montaged together, a classic pre-PhotoShop propaganda technique.

I don't believe there are any reasons to believe this photograph has been tampered with.

The persistent calls of fakery, without showing any knowledge of what you're claiming is a fake, never mind offering any proof, just makes the anti-revisionists laugh.

http://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/pa1085040

The picture there does indeed look more convincing then the one above:


But then I had a look into the text accompanying it:

Under the supervision of American soldiers, a German mother shields the eyes of her son as she walks with other civilians past the bodies of 57 Russians, including women and one baby, exhumed from a mass grave outside the town of Suttrop. The victims were forced to dig their own grave and then were shot by SS troops six weeks before the arrival of American troops. On May 3, 1945, the 95th Infantry Division of the U.S. Ninth Army arrived in Suttrop and were informed by locals of the mass grave. American troops forced the townspeople to exhume the grave after which Russian displaced persons in the area identified the bodies. The victims were reburied in individual graves, and a U.S. Army chaplain conducted burial services. Russians remaining in the area placed wreaths on the graves.

Do the corpses really look like having been SIX WEEKS in a mass grave?
Doesn't that rather look like German civilians killed recently?

And on a side note. It's highly unlikely the Americans would have picked up malnourished Germans to be driven around prepared concentration camp or grave sites. So the ones shown on photos will be the more fit, those who were lucky enough to grow and source their own food.