Irma Grese

[Reviso]

Good evening.

Is it true that some witnesses who led Irma Grese to death retracted ?
Can you give some sources ?

Thank you.

Reviso.

[Carto's Cutlass Supreme]

I found this site, but I was hesitant to post it because it mentions "a ghost" and I think that's ridiculous. I don't know how much of the content here is truth, but the creator of the site knew enough to mention Gisella Perl and Olga Lenygel. So this person knows something.

Anyway, the site mentions witnesses who admitted they lied. I looked on the web for other sites by plugging in their names but didn't find anything.

Some of these witnesses went on to write books that make it clear they were completely lying, though their testimony in 1945 led to her execution.

http://web.archive.org/web/200602071707 ... direct.htm

[Trojan]

Remember what Irma Grese said right after the trial?

"It was our duty to exterminate anti-social elements, so that
Germany's future would be assured."

Sure sounds like an innoncent women to me.

[Hannover]

I see no mention of Jews here.

Show us the exact text Trojan, and where this statement came from. Then we'll see how 'guilty' she was.

Show us evidence of her guilt, can you Trojan?

- Hannover

[Carto's Cutlass Supreme]

Trojan: Why would you leave a quote and give no source? Also, would you say that Gisella Perl is a reliable witness and whose book is a completely honest work?

[Reviso]

Thanks for the answer.

In its present form, the text with the ghost is indeed ridiculous.

Much more serious : the study of Belling on the site of Porter.

He makes an interesting citation from the book of the Jewish deportee Fania Fénelon, "Playing for time", pp. 2-3 :

"Stirb nicht!" Don't Die. The German voice made no sense; it had no power to pull me up out of the black gulf into which I was sinking more deeply every second.......My head was in such chaos that I was no longer sure whether it was day or night. I gave up, it was too painful....I foundered.

Above me, over my face, I felt a breath of air, a vague smell, a delicious scent. A voice cut through the layers of fog, stilled the buzzing in my ears: "Meine kleine Saengerin."

"Little singer," that was what the SS called me.

"Stirb nicht."

That was an order, and a hard one to obey. Anyhow, I was past caring. I opened my eyes a fraction and saw Aufseherin Irma Grese, the SS warden known as Engel, the Angel, because of her looks. The glorious fair plaits which surrounded her head like a halo, her blue eyes and dazzling complexion were floating in a fog. She shook me.

"Stirb nicht! Deine englischen Freunde sind da!"

Could it possibly be? The Valkeryie had an amused glint in her eye as though the whole thing were a mild joke. I closed my eyes again; she was a wearying creature.

(End of citation.)

Yes, from a devil, compassion and sympathy are evil.

Reviso.

[Haldan]

Remember what Irma Grese said right after the trial?

"It was our duty to exterminate anti-social elements, so that
Germany's future would be assured."

Sure sounds like an innoncent women to me.

In addition to what Hannover requested please supply the source in German.

-haldan

[disillusioned]

Trojan:

The witnesses LIED. They admitted that they LIED. This woman was executed because of LIES. Isn't that morally reprehensible to you?

Giving us a translated quote without context is irrelevant.

disillusioned

[Carto's Cutlass Supreme]

They admitted that they LIED.

Yes, but we need a source for that too.

[disillusioned]

Cutlass:

Indeed.

There were no gas chambers at Auschwitz. Grese did not participate in the selection of Jews to be gassed. Grese also did not order SS personnel to shoot prisoners. She did not shoot or kill anyone. She beat people. Possibly severely.

She did not deserve to be hung.

[Carto's Cutlass Supreme]

Grese did not participate in the selection of Jews to be gassed. Grese also did not order SS personnel to shoot prisoners. She did not shoot or kill anyone. She beat people. Possibly severely.

This was the tip of the iceberg regarding lies about her! But the original post was asking for sources involving people who have retracted their lies, and no one's been able to find a source regarding this. Possibly because nobody did retract, or possibly because many people's idea of research (I'm guilty of this) is typing some phrases into google.

[Trojan]

Trojan: Why would you leave a quote and give no source? Also, would you say that Gisella Perl is a reliable witness and whose book is a completely honest work?

From _The Beautiful Beast: The Life and Crimes of SS-Aufseherin Irma Grese_, Daniel Patrick Brown, Golden West Historical Publications, 1996, page 68:


"When a Frenchman yelled at Grese, 'Why did you do these things?" the former SS-woman flung back emphatically, 'It was our duty to exterminate anti-social elements, so that Germany's future would be assured!' This act of contemptuousness, stony defiance, coupled with the numerous reports of Grese inflicting wanton beatings on helpless inmates, led the foreign press to pick up on the story. Already infatuated by her physical appearance, the print media began to refer to Grese as 'The Beautiful Beast.'

[Hannover]

Trojan:

I see no mention of Jews here.

I see no original, verifiable German text.

I don't even see a source for the quote that this 'Daniel Patrick Brown' gives.

Show us evidence of her guilt, can you Trojan?

The only thing we have here are english words with no evidence.

- Hannover

[Richard Perle]

Apparently those words (or at least the untranslated German words) were spoken amongst a hail of shouts from different people, making the context difficult to tell. It's not much to cling to, really.

[Haldan]

Trojan: Why would you leave a quote and give no source? Also, would you say that Gisella Perl is a reliable witness and whose book is a completely honest work?

From _The Beautiful Beast: The Life and Crimes of SS-Aufseherin Irma Grese_, Daniel Patrick Brown, Golden West Historical Publications, 1996, page 68:


"When a Frenchman yelled at Grese, 'Why did you do these things?" the former SS-woman flung back emphatically, 'It was our duty to exterminate anti-social elements, so that Germany's future would be assured!' This act of contemptuousness, stony defiance, coupled with the numerous reports of Grese inflicting wanton beatings on helpless inmates, led the foreign press to pick up on the story. Already infatuated by her physical appearance, the print media began to refer to Grese as 'The Beautiful Beast.'

All this junk is written hearsay. All this junk can be hearsay 50 times removed, and he can quote a million books. It's like at Tokyo, the prosecution could quote a newspaper article, but if the defense quoted a book, or Douglas McArthur, the judge (Webb of Australia, for example) would say, "for every person who felt that way, there may have been 50 people who felt the opposite". Which is just another way of saying, as Italian Americans used to say, "attsa whatta you say, attsa not-a whatta I say".

-haldan