Axis History forum claims to refute

[Rmbrmb21]

I hope I'm not breaking rules by doing this, but I would like to draw attention to this forum post from another popular website:

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic ... 6&t=229233

I've read most of the rebuttals from this list, and some are convincing. Some I already knew of and have been embarrassed for revisionists to constantly rehash, like Leuchter and the Auschwitz swimming pools. Others, I hadn't seen, like the 4M plaque being claimed to have no bearing on official holocaust death figures and it's replacement not affecting the famous 6 million number.

There are a few I read that were equally unconvincing, like the areal photos of supposed backyard burnings of bodies.

If you've not seen it before, I just ask that you take a gander and return with your thoughts on some, unless you prefer to tackle all, of the 36 points.

[borjastick]

I've had a read of the top few points they make and really they all come under the banner of shouting loud and voluminously and you can confuse the listener. They protest too much. I'll get into some details later but I've got to get to work now.

[Hannover]

Yawn.
Nowhere on that list shown in the posted link do we see excavations & human remains of the allegedly enormous mass graves.
The entire 'holocaust' storyline is debunked on the utter lack of these alleged mass graves & their alleged contents alone.

Best stated as:

We're talking about an alleged '6M Jews & 5M others' ... 11,000,000.
There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor) even though Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.
Note: actually show us excavations & their contents, not some Zionist liar claiming mass graves where none exist, and not showing the alleged, verifiable enormous human remains of Jews.

And in addition:

The Industry now claims that ca. 2,000,000 Jews were shot by the Einsatzgruppen into huge pits. So, anyone, please show us the excavated enormous mass graves & human remains that are claimed to exist. After all, their locations are allegedly known.
Is that:
100 graves of 20,000?
200 graves of 10,000?
400 graves of 5,000?
500 graves of 4,000?
1000 graves of 2000?
2000 graves of 1000?

- Hannover

Stauffenberg & Co. never claimed anything like an extermination program as one of their motives for the attempted coup against Hitler & the NSDAP

[borjastick]

I agree with Hannover's general comments about this. I have read through those points in the list that are of immediate interest to me and also some of the readers' comments afterwards. It's interesting in these to note the Black Rabbit is ripping into Romanov quite healthily. Also that Nicholas Terry is happy to admit that comments he and his sidekick Romanov don't like get instantly deleted. Still, all's fair in love and holocaust lies eh?

The argument about the 4m plaque at Auschwitz then removed and replaced with one that says 1.5m died there is a fallacy so they fiddle with the argument saying that no one ever said all the deaths were jewish and thus holocaust death totals aren't all about jews. Well they were and are. No one ever doubted that these number of four million only applied to jews, because the holocaust is a jewish event and is protected as such, sometimes with laws and violence to this day. Yes we know that more Catholics dies at Auschwitz than jews and the number on the plaque was reduced by 2.5m but they cannot accept that this should logically mean that the 6m figure is a fraud, from top to bottom.

Further down they talk of the numbers again referencing the claimed fact the the holocaust happened and can be proven by those not registered in the camps were instantly gassed and cremated and thus of course they were never registered in the official figures. They then conveniently avoid showing proof of mass graves, vast amounts of human remains etc etc. usually one then hears that a very small pond on site was used to flush away these remains which is of course total bollocks to anyone who has done the maths on the volume of remains.

They then rather laughingly completely dismiss the role and importance in the holocaust of the High Priest of the Holocaust one Elie Wiesel. He's not important, didn't play a major role in the holocaust and anything he says doesn't matter. Eh? They then dismissively say 'he did have a tattoo'. No proof offered and of course no photo. This is nonsense and they know it. They also know that by adding any weight to Weasel's words seriously damages their claims.

Many of the other points are laughable and not worth reading.

As with all holocaust promoters they thrash about in the shallows, confusing the average reader with rubbish claims that will convince the newbies etc but never deal with the heavy duty claims and science that completely rubbishes the 6m gas chambers etc. Things like loving jewish records of world jewry totals when it supports them and then for this article claiming that these stats are unreliable, because they actually show the same amount of jews alive after the war as before.

I'd like to read some other points on their list completely rubbished by those here. Should be fun.

[hermod]

The claim that the 4M plaque in Auschwitz was not about 4 million Jews but about around 1 million Jews, is true. But it brings an interesting ripple effect anyway. One can legitimately ask: If the Soviets could create around 3 million non-Jewish Auschwitz victims out of thin air for their own propaganda needs, how many fictitious Jewish Auschwitz victims could the influential Jewry of the West create out of thin air for its own propaganda needs (including the progression of the Zionist agenda, of course) ? Ditto for the millions of admittedly-fictitious non-Jewish Holocaust victims now blamed on Simon Wiesenthal by the Zionist establishment.

[Sannhet]

10. Gas chambers not mentioned in the memoirs of Churchill, Eisenhower, de Gaulle?

Short debunking: the logic here is not clear: suppose they didn't mention gas chambers in their books. And? Their books were not about the Nazi method of killings. They presumably also did not mention Auschwitz at all. Does that mean Auschwitz did not exist? They were writing about the war, not about camps. This factoid is simply irrelevant. The deniers should address the actual evidence.

This is simply a dodge.

It dodges a key revisionist thesis that demands an answer, i.e. that the Holocaust story was aggressively promoted from about the late 1970s onward. If this can be established, and I think it can, in itself it does not 'disprove the gas chambers,' of course, but it does certainly suggest a political motivation behind the "Holocaustism." The purpose in asserting that there is no mention of the Holocaust (as we know it today) in Allied wartime leaders' own memoirs shows, convincingly and elegantly for me at least, that the story of millions of Jews killed in gas chambers (etc.) was quite a lot more central to the thinking of people fifty years after the (alleged) gassings (i.e., by the 1990s) (and now seventy-five years after, late 2010s) than it was to people five years after them, in the late 1940s (e.g., Eisenhower's Crusade in Europe memoir, published 1948). How can that be? What would/could the apologists' answer be? A vast anti-Semitic coverup, perhaps, by those infamous, raging anti-Semites Winston Churchill and Dwight Eisenhower?

The lack of any mention of the Holocaust's central points (as we now know them) in these memoirs itself certainly suggests that Jewish war losses were only one of many, many competing narratives about wartime Europe, about the legacy of the war, in the Eisenhower, Churchill, etc., memoirs* so they didn't bear any more special mention than the considerable losses of, say, the Baltic peoples, or the various other nationalities east of Oder-Neisse that underwent small catastrophes in the 1940s. The "Jewish war losses" theme totally dominates today, to the extent that the middling masses of semi-educated Westerners, many of them, essentially believe that WWII was a war about Germany invading countries solely to kill their Jews and a heroic resistance, called the Allies, demanding that Germany cease killing Jews. This idea would be puzzling at best to any of the figures involved in the war, and itself resembles something of a crude caricature out of Der Stürmer.



* -- (Truman, in his memoirs, which I have read in part, does mention some camps, I think Bergen-Belsen and Buchenwald maybe, but not Auschwitz, nothing about gassings, as I recall, nor any particular focus on Jews or any indication he puts credence in any grand hypothesis about a German extermination of Six Million Jews. There are only a small number of references to Jews in the index, and none suggest he was a Holocaust Believer. The world 'Holocaust' does not appear at all.).

[Sannhet]

I believe I have read that Axis History forum generally does not allow explicit Holocaust Revisionist material to be posted.

Working within the confines of this limitation, there does not seem much one can do. The high likelihood of your posts being deleted or your account banned, even, is a disincentive to speak up.

That said, I call your attention to these posts by a Michael Mills:

Post by Stiltzkin » 18 Jun 2017, 02:09

It [Holocaust Revisionism?] is like charging windmills ,....

Post by michael mills » 23 Jun 2017, 05:32

The windmills being charged at are so-called "Holocaust denial", and the people charging at them like Don Quixote are the self-appointed "denial fighters".

Get over it, guys! So-called "Holocaust denial" is not a giant, it is a purely marginal phenomenon, a reaction to the artificially engendered official obsession with the fate of European Jewry during the Second World War. Once that obsession fades away and the massacre of European Jewry comes to be regarded as an historical event like any other, "Holocaust denial" will likewise disappear.

That at least is the conclusion of Tim Cole in his 1999 book "Selling the Holocaust : From Auschwitz to Schindler : How History is Bought, Packaged, and Sold".

Post by michael mills » 23 Jun 2017, 12:42

Yes, it is irrational. But is it something to be alarmed about?

Research into any historical event should be undertaken for its own sake, to increase knowledge, not just to combat faulty ideas that are not really a threat.

There are plenty of people who believe in quirky notions such as "creation science", but their beliefs are not going to upset the world or cause major conflict.

That was Michael Mills in 2017. He skillfully covers for himself, lest he, too, be accused of witchcraft Holocaust Denial...

Michael Mills, 1617 version: "While I agree that the practice of witchcraft itself is abominable, are the low levels of witchcraft in Europe today really something to be alarmed about? We have been focusing too much on them, perhaps, and we know that the witches are mainly just eccentric cranks casting meaningless spells and things in the forest, to audiences of few to none, and many aren't even in contact with Satan at all. They'll give up their evil ways, in time. I doubt they will really cause major conflict. Let's not focus on them so much."

[Rmbrmb21]

I believe I have read that Axis History forum generally does not allow explicit Holocaust Revisionist material to be posted.

Working within the confines of this limitation, there does not seem much one can do. The high likelihood of your posts being deleted or your account banned, even, is a disincentive to speak up.

That said, I call your attention to these posts by a Michael Mills:

Post by Stiltzkin » 18 Jun 2017, 02:09

It [Holocaust Revisionism?] is like charging windmills ,....

Post by michael mills » 23 Jun 2017, 05:32

The windmills being charged at are so-called "Holocaust denial", and the people charging at them like Don Quixote are the self-appointed "denial fighters".

Get over it, guys! So-called "Holocaust denial" is not a giant, it is a purely marginal phenomenon, a reaction to the artificially engendered official obsession with the fate of European Jewry during the Second World War. Once that obsession fades away and the massacre of European Jewry comes to be regarded as an historical event like any other, "Holocaust denial" will likewise disappear.

That at least is the conclusion of Tim Cole in his 1999 book "Selling the Holocaust : From Auschwitz to Schindler : How History is Bought, Packaged, and Sold".

Post by michael mills » 23 Jun 2017, 12:42

Yes, it is irrational. But is it something to be alarmed about?

Research into any historical event should be undertaken for its own sake, to increase knowledge, not just to combat faulty ideas that are not really a threat.

There are plenty of people who believe in quirky notions such as "creation science", but their beliefs are not going to upset the world or cause major conflict.

That was Michael Mills in 2017. He skillfully covers for himself, lest he, too, be accused of witchcraft Holocaust Denial...

Michael Mills, 1617 version: "While I agree that the practice of witchcraft itself is abominable, are the low levels of witchcraft in Europe today really something to be alarmed about? We have been focusing too much on them, perhaps, and we know that the witches are mainly just eccentric cranks casting meaningless spells and things in the forest, to audiences of few to none, and many aren't even in contact with Satan at all. They'll give up their evil ways, in time. I doubt they will really cause major conflict. Let's not focus on them so much."

If I had to wager, I would say that upwards of 80% of regular posters on axishistory.com are revisionists or of the kind that will say "but the holodomor/slavery/Indian wars/Maoist China/etc. was way worse". So, I am not surprised to see someone trying to shrug off denial and revision as a lesser sin. The site claims that they don't allow denial or revision because it would jeopardize their standing as "apolitical". I find that to be nonsense. Everyone has an agenda and an opinion for/on everything they do and see. The holocaust is the most politicized occurrence (however it actually happened) in the history of the world. Mentioning it in any capacity is either a testament or challenge to Zionism and Zionists everywhere. And with Zionism being the most destructive political movement of the past 100 years, apoliticality is just not possible to maintain when dealing with the holocaust.

[Hegwood]

Rmbrmb1 wrote:

I've read most of the rebuttals from this list, and some are convincing. Some I already knew of and have been embarrassed for revisionists to constantly rehash, like Leuchter and the Auschwitz swimming pools. Others, I hadn't seen, like the 4M plaque being claimed to have no bearing on official holocaust death figures and it's replacement not affecting the famous 6 million number.

I don't understand what you are saying. What exactly do you find convincing? Are you saying that you find the holocaust supporters rebuttal/rejection of the "The Leuchter report" convincing?

Hegwood

[Rmbrmb21]

Rmbrmb1 wrote:

I've read most of the rebuttals from this list, and some are convincing. Some I already knew of and have been embarrassed for revisionists to constantly rehash, like Leuchter and the Auschwitz swimming pools. Others, I hadn't seen, like the 4M plaque being claimed to have no bearing on official holocaust death figures and it's replacement not affecting the famous 6 million number.

I don't understand what you are saying. What exactly do you find convincing? Are you saying that you find the holocaust supporters rebuttal/rejection of the "The Leuchter report" convincing?

Hegwood

What I was saying is that I found some points convincing, some unconvincing, and some I already knew we're of no interest to revisionists but some people still use them as arguments.

For example, I had always thought the 4M plaque to mean 4M Jews. Yet it is being said it only meant 4M total. It's reduction to 1.5M apparently doesn't affect the 6M number. I never knew this and always thought 6-2.5=6 was a strong argument against the holocaust. But as someone also pointed to above, if the Soviets could create 3M non-Jewish victims from nothing, how many Jewish victims did they create?

To answer your question about Leuchter, I don't think a lot of what he spouts is credible. He was already shown to not be an engineer and believe that mass gassing is 100% impossible, which they are possible but didn't happen. I trust Germar more for many reasons.

Hope that clears up the confusion

[Breker]

Rmbrmb21 tell us:

To answer your question about Leuchter, I don't think a lot of what he spouts is credible. He was already shown to not be an engineer and believe that mass gassing is 100% impossible, which they are possible but didn't happen. I trust Germar more for many reasons.

It rather appears that Leuchter's work, while not perfect, has been validated. I suggest The Leuchter Report Vindicated: A Response to J.-C. Pressac's Critique
available at:
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p445_Grubach.html

We also encourage a look into Germar Rudolf's The Rudolf Report , section 2 The Coup - Fred Leuchter on Auschwitz and Majdanek
available at:
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/trr/2.html
B.

[borjastick]

For example, I had always thought the 4M plaque to mean 4M Jews. Yet it is being said it only meant 4M total. It's reduction to 1.5M apparently doesn't affect the 6M number.

RMBRM21

It did always mean jews. I was educated in England during the sixties and seventies and when were taught about the holocaust I am absolutely certain we were never told that other religious or political groups were part of the event. We were told that all deaths in the H were jews. Indeed when the famous television documentary on the second world war-The World At War- was aired in 1974 the episodes covering the holocaust were, to the best of my knowledge, all about jewish persecution and suffering.

Therefore when we knew of gas chambers and 6m dead we all understood that to mean jews. Thus when I was first aware of the death total claims at, among others, Auschwitz we took them to be exclusively jews.

It's pure irony that we are ridiculed for revising history and wanting to inspect it closely to gain greater understanding, yet it is the zionist holocaust loving jews who have done the most revision of their worst moments in history. They have changed the story over and over again to suit the prevailing understanding and knowledge base.

[Depth Charge]

Post by michael mills » 23 Jun 2017, 12:42

Yes, it is irrational. But is it something to be alarmed about?

Oh yes, they should be, and are, alarmed about it.

I'd just point to the likes of YouTube. Where 'holocaust denial' was once a niche subject and taboo, spoken of only quietly by the enlightened, now it's not only entering the online 'mainstream' as something that is safe to discuss, but something to ridicule and laugh at.

The past five years, hell, even the past 2-3 years, have surprised me with regards to the speed of not just the normalization of 'holocaust denial' online, but a developing anti-zionism mania following it.

Old zealots like Sergei Romanov probably don't see it. They probably don't frequent or understand social media, but there are more and more kids who have skipped right passed the 'debating' stage straight into rightful mockery.

I mean a further point to this. Someone above described Axis History forum as 'popular'. But compared to other massive online platforms where 'holocaust denial' is now exploding, it's basically insignificant. The zealot extremist David Thompson may feel comforted by his ban powers over a handful of middle aged men on his backwater forum, but the tide is turning against them in the larger scheme of things.

[Hegwood]

Rmbrmb,

Just a few comments about the Leuchter report.

As noted by other posters it wasn't perfect but its important conclusions have been verified.

It's most important conclusion merely confirms by chemical analysis what was visually observed by astute visitors to Auschwitz. That being, Prussian blue formed on and in the masonry of the Auschwitz buildings known to have been exposed to hydrogen cyanide but it appeared absent in the alleged gas chambers. In other words they could not have been homicidal gas chambers as alleged.

Perhaps more importantly Fred Leuchter is honest and open. He didn't claim his report was the final word on Auschwitz gas chambers but called for a forensic analysis of the alleged holocaust by the world academic and scientific community. His honesty brought a vindictive attack by the holocaust lobby and their lackey mass media upon his character that resulted in severe damage to his professional career and personnel life.

I am not tuned in to the social media channels Depth Charge refers to in the previous post but I hope he is right and the holocaust lobby is subject to the "rightful mockery" they deserve.

Neither Fred Leuchter nor his report is and embarrassment to any truthful human being whether he denies the holocaust or not.

Hegwood

[Sannhet]

what was visually observed by astute visitors to Auschwitz. That being, Prussian blue formed on and in the masonry of the Auschwitz buildings known to have been exposed to hydrogen cyanide but it appeared absent in the alleged gas chambers.

I am curious, do have any published material noting this observation, before the chemical analyses of the 1980s and 1990s?

There is the problem that Auschwitz was snugly situated in Stalinist Poland, of course.