I hereby agree to debate on Belzec mass graves provided:

[gl0spana]

OK you guys have worn me down, I hereby agree to debate on Belzec mass graves provided the following:

a) you must provide one reason (your best reason) why the claim of mass graves is 'impossible'
b) we must restrict the debate to discussion of this reason and this reason only, any additional arguments must be wholly supplementary in nature
c) I can pick and choose who I want to respond to (it feels like 100 v 1 here and I simply don't have time to adequately address everyone, even if we are staying on topic. I hope you understand this, its an issue of practicality).
d) both sides are allowed to say 'I don't know' if asked a question, but they should qualify this somehow
e) you are ok that my default argument is going to be - 'I see no evidence that strongly indicates mass graves do not exist here' - this is what I will be arguing

If you guys wish you can use this thread to decide on 'the best single reason or piece of evidence why the claim is impossible'. Once you have decided we can start a thread addressing it specifically.

[Lamprecht]

my default argument is going to be - 'I see no evidence that strongly indicates mass graves do not exist here'

Do you see any evidence that "strongly indicates" that a purple teapot full of cremated Jew remains is currently revolving around the earth? You're the one pushing the ridiculous conspiracy theory here!

Where is the actually verifiable evidence that they do in fact exist anywhere close to the quantities alleged? You claimed 10 Olympic-sized swimming pools full of human remains were found. You cannot show 1% of any of the alleged pits. So why is that your default argument?

YES or NO - Can you show us one single "huge mass grave" with a mere 1% of the alleged remains claimed to exist at Belzec in the alleged precisely known locations?

The following image is a drawing on a piece of paper. The lines on this drawing claim to indicate "huge mass graves" - Care to show us that just one (01) of these alleged pits contains a mere 1% of the alleged remains claimed to exist at Belzec? What about 0.01%?



The total number of alleged murdered Jews at Belzec is 435 – 600 thousand.

On 17 March 1942, Fritz Reuter, an employee in the post of Governor-General of the Lublin district, wrote a note referring to a conversation held the previous day with SS-Hauptsturmführer Hermann Höfle, the representative for the Jewish settlement in Lublin district; he wrote:

"Abschließend erklärte er [Höfle], er könne täglich 4 – 5 Transporte zu 1.000 Juden mit der Zielstation Belzec aufnehmen. Diese Juden kämen über die Grenze und würden nie mehr ins Generalgouvernement zurückkehren."

---

ENG: "He concluded [Höfle] that he could take 4 - 5 transports to 1,000 Jews a day with the Belzec destination. These Jews would cross the border and never return to the General Government [for the occupied Polish Region]."

Full document text: http://archive.is/g3FbN or http://web.archive.org/web/202002082213 ... e.it/6pylu

Juergen Graf:

"There can be no doubt whatsoever about the meaning of this document: Jews unable to work would be expelled from the General Gouvernement and deported to the occupied eastern territories. The sentence that Belzec was “the outermost border station in the Zamosz district” makes sense only in connection with an expulsion beyond the border. Like Sobibor, Belzec was situated in the extreme east of the General Gouvernement, close to the Ukrainian frontier."

- David Irving and the "Aktion Reinhardt Camps"
https://codoh.com/library/document/1905/

[Lamprecht]

a) you must provide one reason (your best reason) why the claim of mass graves is 'impossible'

Maybe it's the same reason that a huge mass grave full of 100s of thousands of Jews in your back yard is "impossible".
Obviously, people died in transit to Belzec. It's not a matter of 0 human remains vs 100s of thousands.

The burden of proof is on you to show us the alleged "huge mass graves"

Once again, please read:

Mass grave excavation guidelines / The "Mass grave excavations don't produce photographed bodies" lie
viewtopic.php?t=12889

Remember, you expliciltly stated, from: Subject: Challenge to exterminationist gl0spana on alleged mass graves // $100,000+ reward

You're talking about Belzec? Yeah they found like 10 olympic sized swimming pools worth of graves there

[Otium]

Just stop wasting everyone else's time. Make a thread on a topic and then provide the evidence you think is good enough to substantiate what you believe. Here for example, you COULD have made a thread about why you think there's a "strong indication" of mass graves. But you didn't, you just said some rubbish about your faith based belief in an aspect of the Holocaust without giving any of us any reason to believe that your position is salient and worthy of being discussed. It's hard to discuss anyway when you don't even give us anything to work with. We end up getting nowhere.

Here's my question for you:

Do you believe in the Holocaust? Y/N

[Moderator]

gl0spana:

HMSendeavour is spot on when saying:

Just stop wasting everyone else's time. Make a thread on a topic and then provide the evidence you think is good enough to substantiate what you believe. Here for example, you COULD have made a thread about why you think there's a "strong indication" of mass graves. But you didn't, you just said some rubbish about your faith based belief in an aspect of the Holocaust without giving any of us any reason to believe that your position is salient and worthy of being discussed.

So, present your case in this thread or start a new one on this topic, and stop the trolling, dodging.
Here's your chance to show everyone what you have to back up your beliefs.
Per our guidelines which you agreed to, and per my previous note to you, you will not be allowed to continue your empty clutter on this topic until you present what you consider to be proof.
That's it.

M1

[Clay]

gl0spana:

OK you guys have worn me down, I hereby agree to debate on Belzec mass graves...

Then you should have no problem accepting this:

A $1,000.00 bet - can be made for each one of the 100 fraudulently alleged / insinuated - mass graves / cremation pits - of Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II - wagering that you can prove they have been scientifically proven to actually exist and to currently contain the remains of at least 21 people.

To accept - THE $100,000.00 HOLOCAUST ARCHAEOLOGY HOAX CHALLENGE - simply challenge Greg Gerdes (see contact information below) to accept the following - Prove That It Has Been Proven - Wager:

I, _?_, am so confident that the so-called Belzec, Chelmno, Ponary, Sobibor and Treblinka II “holocausts” happened as alleged in orthodox historiography, and that the scientific / archaeological / forensic investigations of said “holocausts” were legitimate and the alleged findings validated; that I am willing to bet Greg Gerdes $1,000.00 that I can definitively prove - in an online debate and in a U.S. civil court - that there is a preponderance of conclusively documented and substantiated scientific / archaeological / forensic evidence which proves, with 100 % certainty, that grave number _?_ currently contains the remains of no less than _?_ people.

Furthermore, I agree that if I refuse to answer any question or get caught lying during our debate or while in court - I lose the bet / case right then and there.

Note: The grave that you are wagering on must coincide with the answer you give to question 21, 22, 23, 24 or 25 in the following questionnaire (which you must complete and submit along with your challenge): THE HOLOCAUST ARCHAEOLOGY HOAX - Mass Graves / Buried Remains - Forensic Evaluation Form.

#21 - Of the 33 alleged Belzec graves / cremation pits in question - the one that you can prove currently contains the most human remains - is number: __?__.

http://thisisaboutscience.com/

And you should have no problem answering these simple questions:

A: Is it - True. - or - False. - that; it has been alleged in orthodox historiography and/or the media that huge pits were dug and utilized as mass graves at Belzec - _?_

B: Is it - True. - or - False. - that; it has been conclusively proven - with 100% certainty - that huge pits were actually dug and utilized as mass graves at Belzec - _?_

C: Is it - True. - or - False. - that; it has been alleged in orthodox historiography and/or the media that mass graves have been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Belzec - _?_

D: Is it - True. - or - False. - that; it can be conclusively proven - with 100% certainty - that mass graves have actually been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Belzec - _?_

E: Can you conclusively prove - with 100% certainty - that archaeologists / forensic investigators have actually located / proven the existence of mass graves at Belzec - Yes. - or - No. - _?_

Remember gl0spana:

To cravenly refuse to bet that you can prove what you allege has been proven, is a tacit admission that you know what you allege - has not been proven.

What kind of self-deceiving coward calls a skeptic of their unsubstantiated allegations a “denier” - yet is unwilling to bet that they can prove what they so vehemently allege is true?

http://thisisaboutscience.com/

[Clay]

gl0spana:

OK you guys have worn me down, I hereby agree to debate on Belzec mass graves...

I wonder why gl0spana never bothered to comment on the passages I quoted from the http://thisisaboutscience.com/ website? Is it because he knows he doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell if he accepts the challenge? Or maybe it's something as simple as him not having enough money to bet Mr. Gerdes? If that is the case, then why doesn't he simply opt for trying to claim the reward money that is offered by the site?

Additionally, and independent of the $100,000.00 Holocaust Archaeology Hoax Challenge, a - $100.00 reward - is being offered for each one of the 100 alleged graves / cremation pits in question that is proven - with the same standard of proof applied in U. S. civil courts - to actually exist and to currently contain, or to have been collected from, the remains of - at least 2 people. (Which is less than 1 / 10,000 of 1% of the alleged buried remains.)

To begin the incredibly easy process of laying claim to each reward and to set all requisite rules:

First - Potential claimants must submit their answers to Part One of the:

THE HOLOCAUST ARCHAEOLOGY HOAX - Mass Graves / Buried Remains - Forensic Evaluation Form (See contact information below.)
Second - Potential claimants must then request and confirm receipt of the official rules.

Third - Potential claimants must then submit their alleged preponderance of scientific evidence directly to Greg Gerdes for his endorsement.

Note: Potential claimants may be required to post their submittal on an approved website - and successfully defend it. In such cases, they must also - publicly pledge to sue Greg Gerdes in a U.S. civil court - (sans a jury and both sides pro se legal representation) if they refuse to accept a negative ruling.

Also note: Eligible potential claimants for any monetary disbursement offered on this website will be allowed to personally examine the proof that the ways and means to make good on their promised payment truly exists - and if they so choose, have said proven remittance amount be entrusted to an escrow agent.

http://thisisaboutscience.com/

gl0spana has the opportunity to earn $3,300,00 for simply proving that something has actually been scientifically proven (as is alleged) and is not required to put up any of his own money (if he has any) himself. So what does he have to lose?

What's wrong gl0spana, is proving just 1 / 10,000 of 1% of the alleged "scientifically proven" buried remains in each of the 33 "scientifically proven" mass graves of Belzec too hard of a challenge for you?

I thought you said you were ready to debate?

(I'm guessing poor gl0spana got cold feet.)

[Clay]

Moderator:

So, present your case in this thread or start a new one on this topic, and stop the trolling, dodging.

Here's your chance to show everyone what you have to back up your beliefs...

M1

gl0spana, you seem to be as terrified of debating Belzec as NFrNJ is terrified of debating Treblinka II.

Mabey we can help you out a bit here by asking a few fundamental questions:


gl0spana, is it - True. - or - False. - that it has been alleged in orthodox historiography and/or the media that huge pits were dug and utilized as mass graves at Belzec - ??

gl0spana, can you show us credible evidence that it has been alleged in orthodox historiography and/or the media that huge pits were dug and utilized as mass graves at Belzec - Yes. - or - No. - ??

gl0spana, can it be proven that it has been alleged in orthodox historiography and/or the media that huge pits were dug and utilized as mass graves at Belzec - Yes. - or - No. - ??

gl0spana, is it - True. - or - False. - that it has been alleged in orthodox historiography and/or the media that mass graves have been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Belzec - ??

gl0spana, can you show us credible evidence that it has been alleged in orthodox historiography and/or the media that mass graves have been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Belzec - Yes. - or - No. - ??

gl0spana, can it be proven that it has been alleged in orthodox historiography and/or the media that mass graves have been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Belzec - Yes. - or - No. - ??

gl0spana, is it - True. - or - False. - that mass graves have actually been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Belzec - ??

gl0spana, can you show us credible evidence that mass graves have actually been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Belzec - Yes. - or - No. - ??

gl0spana, can it be proven that mass graves have actually been discovered by archaeologists / forensic investigators at Belzec - Yes. - or - No. - ??

gl0spana, can you conclusively prove that archaeologists / forensic investigators have actually located / proven the existence of mass graves at Belzec - Yes. - or - No. - ??

[Turpitz]

You must provide one reason (your best reason) why the claim of mass graves is 'impossible'

Mass graves are not impossible, it's erasing all traces of them that's impossible.

[Clay]

You must provide one reason (your best reason) why the claim of mass graves is 'impossible'

Mass graves are not impossible, it's erasing all traces of them that's impossible.

Right. But the allegation is that mass graves aren't just possible, but rather, that they have been scientifically proven to exist.

Which begs the question:

If the existence of huge mass graves have actually been scientifically proven to exist at Belzec, then why is gl0spana asking for reasons that they do not exist rather than proving that they actually do exist?

Imagine if someone tried to pull the same kind of stunt with a Sasquatch?

Let's not forget:

No credible / ethical investigator would maliciously call a skeptic a “holocaust denier” for simply asking to see the alleged “scientific proof” that these mass graves actually exist or steadfastly refuse to show someone any human remains that they are allegedly “denying.” (Remember, one cannot “deny” something that does not exist or that has never been proven to be true.)

...

Remember: If the alleged Belzec “holocaust” really did happen, then there actually would be numerous discernable extant huge mass graves filled with the remains of hundreds of thousands of people to prove it. So this is not a historical issue per se; this is clearly about - SCIENCE - and all that is being done here is the common-sense act of simply asking to see the alleged “archaeological proof” that the true-believers insist is so “undeniable.”

Remember also - it is ipso facto proof of fraud - if a scientist refuses to answer pertinent questions about their alleged / insinuated discoveries.

https://thisisaboutscience.com/

[Wachtman]

As many here have always reminded, one is innocent of a crime until proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt, and the proof of murder is the victims bodies, which first have to be shown to exist, or some manner of remains, or some manner of the process.

[Clay]

As many here have always reminded, one is innocent of a crime until proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt, and the proof of murder is the victims bodies, which first have to be shown to exist, or some manner of remains, or some manner of the process.

Right. And the "victims" remains are alleged to have been scientifically proven to exist in these 33 "huge mass graves:"



All 600,000 of them; which translates to 4.380 million pounds of bones mixed with 19.200 million teeth.

Which begs the questions:

gl0spana, list all of the Belzec graves / cremation pits in question that you can conclusively prove actually exist and currently contain at least an iota of human remains: __?__.

gl0spana, of the 33 alleged Belzec graves / cremation pits in question - the one that you can conclusively prove currently contains the most human remains - is number: __?__.

[Moderator]

gl0spana:
i removed your last trolling post because you dodged the basic challenge put to you, or anyone for that matter, to show the claimed remains that are said to exist to this day at designated locations at Belzec..
It is not revisionists who make that claim, it is so called "holocaust historians".

I remind you that I previously said:

So, present your case in this thread or start a new one on this topic, and stop the trolling, dodging.
Here's your chance to show everyone what you have to back up your beliefs.
Per our guidelines which you agreed to, and per my previous note to you, you will not be allowed to continue your empty clutter on this topic until you present what you consider to be proof.
That's it.

M1

[Merlin300]

As many here have always reminded, one is innocent of a crime until proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt, and the proof of murder is the victims bodies, which first have to be shown to exist, or some manner of remains, or some manner of the process.

Happy New Year Wachtman- I think the burden of revising history is on the Revisionist, on the theory if something is not broken, why fix it?
However, you are entirely correct that Holocaust Belief is dependent on the extremely unlikely event of millions of bodies totally disappearing
without a trace.
That is only one of many anomalies in the mountains of misinformation upon which the Ugly Myth rests.

I also want to thank gl0spana for entering the forum. Long live Free Speech and Debate!

[Goethe]

gl0spana is very much buried with no way out.
Look at his OP, he's trying to set up a scenario that is filled with excuses for his failure to present proof.
This one is a true beauty:

I see no evidence that strongly indicates mass graves do not exist here' - this is what I will be arguing.

That evidence is the fact that the claimed remains which are alleged to exist today, now, at this present moment, do not exist.
gl0spana is a living, walking, illogical contradiction of the official narrative that he supposedly supports.

Now Imagine if the ADL or the US "Holocaust Memorial Museum" said to Revisionists:
'Here's your chance to post on our website the reasons why you find the allegations about Belzec and the general claim of "6,000,000 & gas chambers" to be fraudulent'.

Revisionists would be all over it.