The hypocrisy, gaslighting, and double standards of exterminationsts

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Waldgänger
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The hypocrisy, gaslighting, and double standards of exterminationsts

Postby Waldgänger » 4 months 2 weeks ago (Tue Jan 24, 2023 2:11 pm)

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This is from an obscure and tedious book about the Haitian revolution of the early 19th century. The author felt the need not only to analogise the situation via the Holocaust, but to offer a brief defense of its narrative, though it has nothing directly to do with his subject.

Silencing the Past, Michael Trouillot, 1995, pg 12

Notes:

The employment of semantic verbiage: "the relation between scholarship and political responsibility", i.e. "we must uphold the status quo". It's not about truth. It never was, from the moment the Gas Chambers emerged out of the halls of Soviet propaganda ministries.

It points out that Vidal-Naquet's mother died at Auschwitz, as if that lends him some sort of infallibility on this question, or makes his case more convincing. I suppose it does, in the standard emotional-sentimental storm which the mainstream wishes to cook up in the mind of the reader. The "martyr credibility" is very strained and tiresome.

“Challenge narratives -- no, not THAT one!”. The writer here has no problem with Lipstadt using the Holocaust the confirm the status quo of liberal democracy & Zionism, but then sets up a straw-man of Revisionists being Nazis, and puts in their mouth an argument that none of us ever make -- namely, "we may be Nazis but what does that matter?". Rubbish. Lipstadt can launch an "ideological critique" of revisionism, i.e. dismiss its theories because of politics, but we can't dismiss the orthodox narrative for its own obvious political manipulation. What a lark.

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Hektor
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Re: The hypocrisy, gaslighting, and double standards of exterminationsts

Postby Hektor » 4 months 2 weeks ago (Tue Jan 24, 2023 2:30 pm)

It's weaponized historiography.

Anyone taking a sober look on subjects like Colonialism or Slavery must be a 'racist' (and an anti-Semite of course).

"Political responsibility" is that a code-word for what's written to be in line with ideological agendas and present day political struggles for "a fair and equitable society"?

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Re: The hypocrisy, gaslighting, and double standards of exterminationsts

Postby Some Dude » 4 months 2 weeks ago (Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:14 pm)

Waldgänger wrote:Image

This is from an obscure and tedious book about the Haitian revolution of the early 19th century. The author felt the need not only to analogise the situation via the Holocaust, but to offer a brief defense of its narrative, though it has nothing directly to do with his subject.

Silencing the Past, Michael Trouillot, 1995, pg 12


Nope. Silencing the Past is only tangentially about the Haitian revolution. It's about how consensus narratives get created among historians and who is excluded/included as part of the process. He considers Holocaust denial as a case study, as he also does the Alamo.

Also, the book is extremely widely read among first-year history grad students.

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Re: The hypocrisy, gaslighting, and double standards of exterminationsts

Postby Some Dude » 4 months 2 weeks ago (Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:19 pm)

Hektor wrote:a sober look on subjects like Colonialism or Slavery


I'd be curious to know what this consists of.

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Re: The hypocrisy, gaslighting, and double standards of exterminationsts

Postby hermod » 4 months 2 weeks ago (Tue Jan 24, 2023 7:46 pm)

"We can't dismiss heliocentric theory just because Copernicus apparently hated the Catholic Church." True, but the correct Heliocentric theory was dismissed for a very long time because the Catholic Church --- i.e. the powerholders of that time --- had banned it. That ban made it possible for the erroneous Geocentric theory to survive for longer than it should have, despite its numerous incongruities, because it could go unchallenged and be undisturbed by the Heliocentric counterarguments. Anybody knowing the powerholders of this time and their most sacrosanct political-historical myth can easily understand this obvious analogy in a Holocaust-revisionist perspective... :bom: :wink:

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"[Austen Chamberlain] has done western civilization a great service by refuting at least one of the slanders against the Germans
because a civilization which leaves war lies unchallenged in an atmosphere of hatred and does not produce courage in its leaders to refute them
is doomed.
"

Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung, on the public admission by Britain's Foreign Secretary that the WWI corpse-factory story was false, December 4, 1925

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Hektor
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Re: The hypocrisy, gaslighting, and double standards of exterminationsts

Postby Hektor » 4 months 2 weeks ago (Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:22 pm)

hermod wrote:"We can't dismiss heliocentric theory just because Copernicus apparently hated the Catholic Church." True, but the correct Heliocentric theory was dismissed for a very long time because the Catholic Church --- i.e. the powerholders of that time --- had banned it. That ban made it possible for the erroneous Geocentric theory to survive for longer than it should have, despite its numerous incongruities, because it could go unchallenged and be undisturbed by the Heliocentric counterarguments. Anybody knowing the powerholders of this time and their most sacrosanct political-historical myth can easily understand this obvious analogy in a Holocaust-revisionist perspective... :bom: :wink:

Image

I don't think there is evidence that Copernicus hated the Catholic church. In fact he seems to have been close to it.
The Geocentrism was something the Catholics adopted from pre-Christian thinkers. Since they taught this for very long, they obviously had an issue with admitting that it may be wrong. Essentially their institutional credibility was at stake. But it wasn't something they gaslighted the public with. It wasn't really an issue for the Church in general. It was however an issue for those in the astronomy field that taught geocentric views. They tried using the Churches influence and power structure in their favor. That was also behind the inquisition of Galileo.

The issue was that geocentrism iappears more feasible than heliocentrism (as your illustration shows).
With the Holocaust it is indeed similar. It takes quite some faith to believe in its fiendish to miraculous tales. The investment of those promoting it is far bigger than for Geocentrism, which was a side issue for most people at the time. The Holocaust lends legitimacy and justification for a number of policies and the good name of the Allies and their ideologies is at stake, while Nationalism and social conservatism is disparaged (there is several other issues that play a role e.g. NS-attitude on banking and plutocracy).

(I'm listening to audio from the Franfurt Auschwitz trial... witnesses were functionaries of the SED (Communist Party) and obviously planted coached testimony at the trial. They even prided themselves of having intimidated defense witnesses as well, they refused answering questions relating to their credibility as well).

So there is more vested interest in the Holocaust than in any astronomy question. That allows them to push the thing further, which shields the issue from scrutiny and also intimidates researchers and publishers.


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