Poor Irving

[chammer]

If one sincerely wish to debate about the reality of mass shootings in some place, that's an historical opinion, not always a political one. So I'm not shocked when on is unsure about the reality of a massacre here and there. What is amazing is that one can really believe that because he accept these stories he will not be under fire 'just' because he reject the gas chamber claim.
The stakes are not only historicals; they are political and financial. You are not less 'guilty' or dangerous because you believe in some sort of Holocaust. Even if you are bad at maths and accept the 6 million figure,
you'll still face the same threat of being crushed and eventualley jail soon or late as soon as you trivialize the big 'H';
Now they are engaged in a campain against the leftists who accept the 6 million figure but who compare it to any other massacre or those who dare to speak of the 35 million gentiles who died during WWII and who offer some sort of comparison.

The amazing thing with Irving is the poor judgment he has shown
in recent years. It was a poor decision to sue Deborah Lipstadt because he had no chance to win. He wished to get back his money, his reputation, he wished to officialize through a court room that rejecting half of the Holocaust was just a normal opinion. He had no chance to
win because the stakes are political and financial, not just historical.
He wished to take his distances toward other revisionists and announce it loudly.
Instead he lost his house.
And now he is still showing a poor judgement when he bites to the bargain that his lawyer offer him.
I 've just learned that Irving will plead guilty. YES, he will plead guilty! With all the remorses theyexpect from him.
No one who is not facing the threat of jail, 10 years, in such a case can really reproach him a lack of courage. But for the judgement, well...
Irving is expecting the 'happy ending' that his lawyer no doubt presented him, a mere expulsion from Austria in January or Febuary.

After all, many former SS guards got this kind of 'happy ending' when the chose the plea guilty during the Auschwitz and Treblinka trials.
Except one detail; they were German and Austrians, not British, and the German & Austrian governement could still keep an eye on them once they were realeased.
But Irving seems to believe that he will be allowed to get back his house, to write books again, to see his relatives, or either to withdraw his 'confessions' one he is back in the UK.
No way. Those who keep him in jail are not stupid. Once he'll have show the remorse they expect from him, Irving will get a 10 years sentence and the world medias will praise the decision since Irving will be supposed to have admit his lies after all...
The man is finished; but rather than to become a martyr he will become a lone man with no friends at all, but he will still rot in jail.

[Ajax]

If Irving is going to 'recant' - for what? Telling the truth? - then he would have gone down in my estimation. One can appreciate that he faces a stretch in jail and that he might be held away from his family, but on the other hand caving into those he has stood firm against for years is a little weak. It's tough to call, but I would hope he would do the noble thing - stick by his guns, get his jail sentence and then emerge with his head held high - much like a certain Landsberg inmate in the 1920s.

Like that same Landsberg inmate, he could use the time wisely - he could continue to work on his book (if they allow him) while knowing that he has many friends outside, people who would value his commitment to the truth and real history even more. If he just swallows the pill they give him whole, it would be little more than a sock in the face for all those who have supported and funded him through the years on the basis of his commitment to truth and objectivity - all the support would mean nothing.

I would be interested to know what others on here think.

[Bergmann]

I think that Irving will be released shortly. I also don't think that Zundel and Rudolf will be in jail very long. They will be discharged early for good behavior.
Their trials are political, to demonstrate to Israel and the Jews that the Germans and Austrians are now properly re-educated. And that is all.

The question is, what will happen afterwards? Neither Rudolf nor Zundel will be able to return to the US or Canada. How are they going to make a living, especially in the case of Rudolf with a young wife and a 4 month old baby? What a mess!

[Radar]

I would be cautious about concluding what Irving's actual strategies are. For one thing I note that the only statements made so far are from his Austrian lawyer and some of them are quite strange. For example, the suggestion that Irving "saw the light" about the gas chambers after examining the Russian archives. I don't think Irving has visited those archives recently and he certainly hadn't made his supposed newfound beliefs know before. Nor have others such as Mattogno and Graf who did extensive searches of the archives and certainly came to no such conclusion.

As for what may happen I believe that the Austrians may very well wish to be rid of his case and not wish to jail him so they may very well be content with some sort of apology "if I've offended anyone" (like a slippery US politician) and then kicking him out of Austria, maybe with a fine. A Brit like Irving in an Austrian jail is not a good idea for them.

As for his bad judgements in the past, yes they are certainly true. He apparently thinks that if he shows that he's a good fellow and concedes a few "test" gassings or gas vans then the Sanhedrin on the other side will leave him alone. This shows an appalling misunderstanding of the enemies of freedom and truth.
They want to destroy him. He should know better.

And in undertaking the Lipstadt litigation, Irving, as a true blue, Tory English patriot at heart had a semi-religious faith in the British court system which anyone who had follwed it in the cases of the many now admitted miscarriages of justice in the Irish bombing cases would never have risked. One need only recall the appeals court justice who confronted with evidence of faulty forensic evidence in one Irish case rejected considering the possibility of official misconduct since it would be "an appalling vista", too awful to contemplate, and clapped the innocent defendants back into the jail. The similar appalling vista that "the Holocaust" might be riddled with fraud was too much for Jusitice Grey in the Lipstadt case and Iriving apparently never considered that possibility.

[code yellow]

We have to remember a couple of points .What we are dealing with here are powers much more stronger and dangerous than the australian authorities and their silly law.Also remember that in years gone by Irving has already had a taste of their wrath.Look what happened to David

Cole,or Faurrison,as well as others who risked their lives exposing the sham.He is fully aware of what might not only happen to him,but to his family,as we know the evil forces that conduct the holocaust sham in the

backgrounds would go after your loved ones as well.We all have to cut this man some slack because of the exaustive years he put in fighting the enemy.Irving is a big fish to them.He doesn't stand a chance.It's his own

Nuremberg.Look,you can all tell it's a bunch of lies,you know how?because no one is going to go through such excessive leaghnths to get at someone just because of some adverse views.They'd just write him off as a nut

case.The beatings,firebombings,harassment;those are measures you take when you are desperately trying to hide a lie.And who knows what they are doing to him down there right now?The man is 67,and he is afraid for himself and his family.That's the reality of the whole thing.