Reasons why Hitler's Second Book is BS?
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Reasons why Hitler's Second Book is BS?
So there's a discussion about "Lebensraum".
I recently listened to a lecture by some "historian" on YT, where he argues that Mein Kampf is proof enough that Hitler always wanted to do fight a genocidal war against the USSR, so that invasion was not a preemptive war. And he argued that all claims that he did not have the same mindset in 1941 as in 1923, because he never wrote a second book.
Again you can add context here and argue that Mein Kampf was written while he was a rebel rouser in some bavarian jail and a book was the best way to increase his outreach, while later he explained his views in more than enough speeches and interviews.
But there is an unreleased second book, allegedly written in 1928. Now I don't have enough of the history of it, but let's say my street wisdom tells me that it another piece of fake paper evidence. So allegedly never publshed, but "found" and released in 1962. Why so late?
And here is the story on Wikipedia, and again, if you believe that, never go buy a used car on your own.
"Gerhard Weinberg speculates that the Zweites Buch was not published in 1928 because Mein Kampf did not sell well at that time and Hitler's publisher, Franz-Eher-Verlag, would have told Hitler that a second book would hinder sales even more"
As a Harry Potter-hater, I wish somebody would have said that to JK Rowling. Come on, this is the dumbest excuse I have heard yet. Literally nobody would write a second book it that would make sense. There would still only be one Star Wars-movie if that would make any sense.
But they expect you to be even dumber:
"Zweites Buch was written after the Nazi party’s poor showing in the 1928 German elections, which Hitler believed was caused by the public’s misunderstanding of his ideas."
[...]
As in Mein Kampf, Hitler outlined [...] his Stufenplan. Briefly, the Stufenplan called for three stages. In the first stage, there would be a massive military build-up, the overthrow of the shackles of the Treaty of Versailles, and the forming of alliances with Fascist Italy and the British Empire. The second stage would be a series of fast, "lightning wars" in conjunction with Italy and the United Kingdom against France and whichever of her allies in Eastern Europe—such as Czechoslovakia, Poland, Romania and Yugoslavia—chose to stand by her. The third stage would be a war to obliterate what Hitler considered to be the "Judeo-Bolshevik" regime in the Soviet Union."
So Hitler wanted to write a second book to win more votes, and he thought promising endless world war would do the trick.
Ok, the rest is just the typical world conquest-nonsense.
So what can you tell me about the history of this book?
I recently listened to a lecture by some "historian" on YT, where he argues that Mein Kampf is proof enough that Hitler always wanted to do fight a genocidal war against the USSR, so that invasion was not a preemptive war. And he argued that all claims that he did not have the same mindset in 1941 as in 1923, because he never wrote a second book.
Again you can add context here and argue that Mein Kampf was written while he was a rebel rouser in some bavarian jail and a book was the best way to increase his outreach, while later he explained his views in more than enough speeches and interviews.
But there is an unreleased second book, allegedly written in 1928. Now I don't have enough of the history of it, but let's say my street wisdom tells me that it another piece of fake paper evidence. So allegedly never publshed, but "found" and released in 1962. Why so late?
And here is the story on Wikipedia, and again, if you believe that, never go buy a used car on your own.
"Gerhard Weinberg speculates that the Zweites Buch was not published in 1928 because Mein Kampf did not sell well at that time and Hitler's publisher, Franz-Eher-Verlag, would have told Hitler that a second book would hinder sales even more"
As a Harry Potter-hater, I wish somebody would have said that to JK Rowling. Come on, this is the dumbest excuse I have heard yet. Literally nobody would write a second book it that would make sense. There would still only be one Star Wars-movie if that would make any sense.
But they expect you to be even dumber:
"Zweites Buch was written after the Nazi party’s poor showing in the 1928 German elections, which Hitler believed was caused by the public’s misunderstanding of his ideas."
[...]
As in Mein Kampf, Hitler outlined [...] his Stufenplan. Briefly, the Stufenplan called for three stages. In the first stage, there would be a massive military build-up, the overthrow of the shackles of the Treaty of Versailles, and the forming of alliances with Fascist Italy and the British Empire. The second stage would be a series of fast, "lightning wars" in conjunction with Italy and the United Kingdom against France and whichever of her allies in Eastern Europe—such as Czechoslovakia, Poland, Romania and Yugoslavia—chose to stand by her. The third stage would be a war to obliterate what Hitler considered to be the "Judeo-Bolshevik" regime in the Soviet Union."
So Hitler wanted to write a second book to win more votes, and he thought promising endless world war would do the trick.
Ok, the rest is just the typical world conquest-nonsense.
So what can you tell me about the history of this book?
Re: Reasons why Hitler's Second Book is BS?
Whodunnit? wrote:So there's a discussion about "Lebensraum".
I recently listened to a lecture by some "historian" on YT, where he argues that Mein Kampf is proof enough that Hitler always wanted to do fight a genocidal war against the USSR, so that invasion was not a preemptive war.
Hitler wrote Mein Kampf only a few months after the end of Russian Civil War of 1917-1923, that is, when almost nobody would have bet a Kopek on the long-term survival of the newly-established Bolshevik empire. When he wrote Mein Kampf, Hitler believed that (i.e. in the quick collapse of the new Soviet Empire) too and he believed that the surrounding countries & empires would easily (i.e. almost without a shotgun) lay hold of big pieces of that short-lived empire. In Mein Kampf, Hitler made crystal clear that the German annexation of some lands in Eastern Europe would take place only after the downfall and dismemberment of the Bolshevik empire. Hitler's Mein Kampf passage on Lebensraum in the east was not about a bloody war on a Soviet Union armed to the teeth. It was about the seizure of lands without an imperial master, like the occupancy of a heirless property.
In 1940 and 1941, Hitler [and everybody else] had of course realized that the Soviet empire wouldn't soon collapse as first thought and that it was even stronger than ever. As the head of the Third Reich, Hitler led his people in accordance with realpolitik, not in accordance with an old patently-erroneous prediction that the new Bolshevik empire would quickly fall apart on its own because it was led by Jews and "Jewry itself is not an organizing element, but a ferment of decomposition."
"[Austen Chamberlain] has done western civilization a great service by refuting at least one of the slanders against the Germans
because a civilization which leaves war lies unchallenged in an atmosphere of hatred and does not produce courage in its leaders to refute them
is doomed. "
Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung, on the public admission by Britain's Foreign Secretary that the WWI corpse-factory story was false, December 4, 1925
because a civilization which leaves war lies unchallenged in an atmosphere of hatred and does not produce courage in its leaders to refute them
is doomed. "
Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung, on the public admission by Britain's Foreign Secretary that the WWI corpse-factory story was false, December 4, 1925
- borjastick
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Re: Reasons why Hitler's Second Book is BS?
Hitler probably knew that MK was a masterpiece and his tour de force etc.
Why do some sportspeople retire immediately after winning a world title and others go on for many more titles? Nico Rosberg retired literally minutes after his one F1 title and Hamilton got 7 and keeps going. There are many examples of this. The reason is winning one world championship is enough, all they ever wanted and once achieved that's it, game over.
For Hitler that may well have been the case. He was on a mission with MK to say something profound and worthwhile. He achieved just that so maybe anything after would be second rate.
Why do some sportspeople retire immediately after winning a world title and others go on for many more titles? Nico Rosberg retired literally minutes after his one F1 title and Hamilton got 7 and keeps going. There are many examples of this. The reason is winning one world championship is enough, all they ever wanted and once achieved that's it, game over.
For Hitler that may well have been the case. He was on a mission with MK to say something profound and worthwhile. He achieved just that so maybe anything after would be second rate.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'
'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician
'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician
Re: Reasons why Hitler's Second Book is BS?
borjastick wrote:Hitler probably knew that MK was a masterpiece and his tour de force etc.
Why do some sportspeople retire immediately after winning a world title and others go on for many more titles? Nico Rosberg retired literally minutes after his one F1 title and Hamilton got 7 and keeps going. There are many examples of this. The reason is winning one world championship is enough, all they ever wanted and once achieved that's it, game over.
For Hitler that may well have been the case. He was on a mission with MK to say something profound and worthwhile. He achieved just that so maybe anything after would be second rate.
I disagree on that. With Hitler retiring in 1925, Mein Kampf would now be just another of the numerous complety-forgotten political books written in past centuries.
"[Austen Chamberlain] has done western civilization a great service by refuting at least one of the slanders against the Germans
because a civilization which leaves war lies unchallenged in an atmosphere of hatred and does not produce courage in its leaders to refute them
is doomed. "
Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung, on the public admission by Britain's Foreign Secretary that the WWI corpse-factory story was false, December 4, 1925
because a civilization which leaves war lies unchallenged in an atmosphere of hatred and does not produce courage in its leaders to refute them
is doomed. "
Deutsche Allgemeine Zeitung, on the public admission by Britain's Foreign Secretary that the WWI corpse-factory story was false, December 4, 1925
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Re: Reasons why Hitler's Second Book is BS?
I somehow completely messed up that posting.
So what I wanted to say: the historian said that Hitler never changed his mind on any of his statements in Mein Kampf, because he never wrote a second book. IMO this is typical for these propagandists that call themselves historians: they always try to take advantage of the ignorance of their audience. So what about his speeches? What about the interviews?
Again, from Oil & War:
Of course, this isn't his definitive statement. His definitive statement is his testament. And I mean his real one, not something that somebody found in a drawer 20 years later.
There he writes: "It is not true that I or anybody else in Germany wanted war in the year 1939. It was desired and provoked entirely by those international statesmen who are either of Jewish origin or work for Jewish interest"
So there you go. There is no "It still is my deep conviction that me must drive the slavic subhuman into asia".
Anyhow, what I wanted to ask:
What is the background of this book? Did somebody in 1962 just open up a dusty drawer again and woops, there it was? Like so "documents"? Are there people here who believe this is genuine?
I don't believe this "We found new discoveries in Russian archives"-nonsense, we are talking about the biggest war in history that took place 80 years ago, and was followed by the biggest court cases in history. We are not talking about Göbekli Tepe or Atlantis. There is zero new evidence about the Vietnam war, but they act like WW2 is one big mystery and there are still documents somewhere that nobody ever read. I assume they already went over everything. Hitler's second book would have been found before 1962. I am so sick of these stories. "As many fingers as I say"
So what I wanted to say: the historian said that Hitler never changed his mind on any of his statements in Mein Kampf, because he never wrote a second book. IMO this is typical for these propagandists that call themselves historians: they always try to take advantage of the ignorance of their audience. So what about his speeches? What about the interviews?
Again, from Oil & War:
From the depths of World War I had come the dogma that only through self-sufficiency could Germany prosper in peace or battle. The 1938 rally was above all a celebration of that economic independence. When Hitler issued a proclamation at the rally that the fixed goal of autarky, or economic self-sufficiency, had been achieved, it was the fulfillment of a national dream. The humiliation of surrender in 1918, caused not by defeat on the battlefield but because Germany had neither fuel nor food to continue, was ingrained in the minds of all Germans, whatever their political leanings.
Now, five years after taking power, Hitler proclaimed that he had brought Germany to a point of economic self-sufficiency. He declared:[The] German economy is being so constructed that at any time it can be completely independent from other countries and stand on its own
feet. And this is succeeding. The idea of blockading Germany can even now be buried as an entirely ineffective weapon. The National
Socialist State, with energy that is peculiar to it, has drawn conclusions from the lessons of the World War. And now, as before, we hold
to the fundamental principle that we would rather limit ourselves in this or that field should it become necessary in order to make ourselves
independent from foreign countries. Above all, the following decision always will stand at the top of our economic actions: security
of the nation goes ahead of everything else. Its economic existence is, therefore, to be secured materially in its fullest measure with our own standard of life and our own living space. For only then can the German army be in a position at all times to take the freedom and interests
of the Reich under its strong protection.
The task of self-sufficiency had been given to Hermann Göring, second only to Hitler in the Nazi hierarchy. In addition to commanding the Luftwaffe, Göring became Germany’s master economic planner to implement the ambitious Four Year Plan of self-sufficiency, which began in 1936. In only half the allotted time, Göring could boast at Nürnberg that the plan was already a fact of military, political, and economic reality:we shall never be forced to sacrifice our honor. Never will it be possible to starve our nation and then demoralize it by propaganda. Those
times are definitely over. We are provisioned both with food and with raw materials . . . we are well supplied and excellently armed. We
have a powerful army and a great navy and our air force is the world’s most modern, most technically advanced and most numerous.
Of course, this isn't his definitive statement. His definitive statement is his testament. And I mean his real one, not something that somebody found in a drawer 20 years later.
There he writes: "It is not true that I or anybody else in Germany wanted war in the year 1939. It was desired and provoked entirely by those international statesmen who are either of Jewish origin or work for Jewish interest"
So there you go. There is no "It still is my deep conviction that me must drive the slavic subhuman into asia".
Anyhow, what I wanted to ask:
What is the background of this book? Did somebody in 1962 just open up a dusty drawer again and woops, there it was? Like so "documents"? Are there people here who believe this is genuine?
I don't believe this "We found new discoveries in Russian archives"-nonsense, we are talking about the biggest war in history that took place 80 years ago, and was followed by the biggest court cases in history. We are not talking about Göbekli Tepe or Atlantis. There is zero new evidence about the Vietnam war, but they act like WW2 is one big mystery and there are still documents somewhere that nobody ever read. I assume they already went over everything. Hitler's second book would have been found before 1962. I am so sick of these stories. "As many fingers as I say"
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Re: Reasons why Hitler's Second Book is BS?
Hitler was never anti-Russian - he was anti-communist. If you were an ethnic Russian, you were considered a white person with a place in Europe. Jews and Asian Russians were to be sent to the Russian Far-East. Anybody who says that there was a plan to annex countries other than Austria as part of a German supremacy program is lying. The man himself stated in the beginning of Mein Kampf that he only wanted the unification of Austria & Germany. The language used during the war was meant to be more serious, because who wants to be seen as weak?
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Re: Reasons why Hitler's Second Book is BS?
hermod wrote:Hitler wrote Mein Kampf only a few months after the end of Russian Civil War of 1917-1923, that is, when almost nobody would have bet a Kopek on the long-term survival of the newly-established Bolshevik empire. When he wrote Mein Kampf, Hitler believed that (i.e. in the quick collapse of the new Soviet Empire) too and he believed that the surrounding countries & empires would easily (i.e. almost without a shotgun) lay hold of big pieces of that short-lived empire. In Mein Kampf, Hitler made crystal clear that the German annexation of some lands in Eastern Europe would take place only after the downfall and dismemberment of the Bolshevik empire. Hitler's Mein Kampf passage on Lebensraum in the east was not about a bloody war on a Soviet Union armed to the teeth. It was about the seizure of lands without an imperial master, like the occupancy of a heirless property.
Yeah, good point. Germar wrote a lenghty foreword to Mattogno's book Mis-Chronicling Auschwitz, where he goes through much of the history leading up to Hitler's decision to invade the Soviet Union and the National Socialist landgrabs in Poland. Even so, many mainstream historians accept the invasion of the USSR as a preemptive war.
Re: Reasons why Hitler's Second Book is BS?
hermod wrote:borjastick wrote:Hitler probably knew that MK was a masterpiece and his tour de force etc.
Why do some sportspeople retire immediately after winning a world title and others go on for many more titles? Nico Rosberg retired literally minutes after his one F1 title and Hamilton got 7 and keeps going. There are many examples of this. The reason is winning one world championship is enough, all they ever wanted and once achieved that's it, game over.
For Hitler that may well have been the case. He was on a mission with MK to say something profound and worthwhile. He achieved just that so maybe anything after would be second rate.
I disagree on that. With Hitler retiring in 1925, Mein Kampf would now be just another of the numerous complety-forgotten political books written in past centuries.
Possible and plausibly so.
If Hitler retired in 1925, they'd have to find another scape goat and boogey men.
But for the post-ww2 world order... A Hitler2.0. was needed. They can't do without that. The Ideologies won't work then. They couldn't legitimize policy as they do now. So the Hitler-Holocaust believe is a religious foundation for post-WW2 political and cultural thought.
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