The most important Photograph / corpse color

[Kingfisher]

That's the science fact, but the story might be just as important: an insecticide Zyklon is used, it gets called Zyklon-Blau because of the blue hue it leaves in walls (so there was never any Zyklon-A, nor Zyklon-C); and false witnesses then imagine that because of this name it leaves blue corpses! So they are going to lose their entire case, the Holohoax imposture is about to shatter, because of bad science.

No quarrel with the post as a whole but this detail is incorrect. Zyklon A was the liquid form that was superseded by Zyklon B. (Google it)

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

I am absolutely delighted by the enthusiasm that seems to be emerging here for the basic argument against A-L-L of the gassing claims: If any of the gassing claims had been true, vast numbers of bright, cherry RED corpses would have always been present among the gassing victims. This is, however, contrary to nearly all the statements of self-described "eyewitnesses." A-L-L of the "eyewitnesses" LIED!

A vast subculture of unbounded lying had emerged with the war among the Allies. This was then supported with the most ruthless torture of hapless German prisoners. Germany today is still the victim of the “Stockholm Syndrome” and must still comply with every demand of the worst war criminals in all of human history: the Allied victors themselves.

The issue is somewhat complicated, however, by the fact that there are some "eyewitness" claims of red or pink corpses which must not be ignored--but which I discussed earlier on this thread. Those other claims including the testimony of Dr. Theodor Friedrich Leidig about Sachsenhausen, are essentially Soviet claims. See; Nationsozialistische Massentoetungen durch Giftgas by Kogon, Langbein, Rueckerl et al (1983), pages 83 and 84. Those other claims help show the two-track nature of the holocaust gassing hoax. Whereas the Soviets built a "homicidal gas van" hoax based arguably on their own use of hyomicidal gas vans in the 1930's for executions--the western nations were copycatting the Gerstein statement with its "gas chambers" but with the most extreme Gerstein absurdities removed. Today they have even dropped Gerstein's diesel claim. The Soviets, on the other hand, claimed diesels were used in homicidal gas vans in Kharkov and Krasnodar in 1943 but may have dropped those claims by the time they persuaded Leidig to give his testimony after the war.


Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!

[Jerzy Ulicki-Rek]

"To Jerzy, I will be happy and eager to post the actual image of page 83 on my own website ..."
Friedrich .
No problem all all under one condition :I'm a computer moron and imageshack is the only picture sharing program I managed to use.If you could suggest another one ,I will use it to download the pictures .
Regards
Jerzy

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

To Jerzy,

if you email me at my usual address, I will be happy to explain how the image of page 83 can be uploaded--and then ultimately posted to my website.

[email protected]

FPBerg

[Jerzy Ulicki-Rek]

http://www.polskawalczaca.com/viewtopic ... 818#p41818

Jerzy

[astro3]

Occam's Razor gave half a dozen 'testimonies' of alleged-gassed corpses having a bluish skin-colour. Were there any such reports given at Nuremberg?

I found two more:
*Stangl allegedly saw at Treblinka, ‘the pits full of black-blue corpses'. Wiki, Treblinka
* 'Their faces were blue, almost purplish' – at Auschwitz, a recollection of mass gassing of Russian Prisoners of War in September 1941, 'Auschwitz remembered' http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... bered.html

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

The two examples Astro3 gives above suggest nothing more than the normal livor mortis associated with normal deaths from natural causes--including shootings possibly--but NOT from cyanide or carbon monoxide gassing at all.


Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

Two weeks ago I visited an 85-year old lady in a hospice who was dying frim a flesh eating disease. She died the next day. When I saw her, she was unconscious and heavily narcosed. Her feet had already "died" and displayed a slightly brownish, medium grey color over most of both feet. This is important for this discussion because I am sure from my own experience as a photographer that if I had photographed those feet in color, even with a modern digital camera--the resulting images could have easily appeared somewhat "bluish." That is what happens all too easily with many types of photographic images as demonstrated by the photo from Wikipedia posted by Occam's Razor--even without any Photoshop enhancement.

But, but, but--when one sees the actual subject in reality--with reasonably normal eyes in normal light--there is NO confusion: there is NO blue or bluish coloring at all. It used to be much worse in the good old days of color fllm and the images in Gresham's book are good examples of that. Balancing the color with the use of a "neutral gray card" was an important requirement for making reasonably accurate color photos.The next time someone tlaks about "blue" veins or whatever--look closely if you possibly can at the actual subject--and you will see thast there is nothing there but "gray" or an an absence of coloring. Nonetheless, it is a fact that people often interpret such subjects as "blue" without necessarily being outright liars. It is a purely psychological phenomenon. I think doctors understand this generally but also realize how important it is yto give a meaningful name to this extremely important diagnostic phenomen--asnd that is the basis for the continuing use of the terms "cyanosis" or "cyanotic." It is used to describe things that are essentialy far more colorless and pale or grey than normaL. In a similar way, hydrocyanic acid is called "Blausaeure" in German even though the acid itself is totally colorless and so is the gaseous form. For some of the holocaust liars, however, these facts are unkown and so they trap themselves with their ignorance as to the historic origin of the word.

There is absolutely NO real "BLUE" coloring present in cyanosis at all. For all his interesting info in his posts above, Occam's Razor provides absolutely NO reason technically or chemically for why the coloring of oxygen-poor blood should appear "blue" through the skin. The skin is NOT some kind of blue filter.

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

Two weeks ago I visited an 85-year old lady in a hospice who was dying frim a flesh eating disease. She died the next day. When I saw her, she was unconscious and heavily narcosed. Her feet had already "died" and displayed a slightly brownish, medium grey color over most of both feet. This is important for this discussion because I am sure from my own experience as a photographer that if I had photographed those feet in color, even with a modern digital camera--the resulting images could have easily appeared somewhat "bluish." That is what happens all too easily with many types of photographic images as demonstrated by the photo from Wikipedia posted by Occam's Razor--even without any Photoshop enhancement.

But, but, but--when one sees the actual subject in reality--with reasonably normal eyes in normal light--there is NO confusion: there is NO blue or bluish coloring at all. It used to be much worse in the good old days of color fllm and the images in Gresham's book are good examples of that. " Balancing" the color with the use of a "neutral gray card" was an important requirement for making reasonably accurate color photos.The next time someone talks about "blue" veins or whatever--look closely if you possibly can at the actual subject--and you will see that there is nothing there but "gray" or an an absence of coloring. The blue is NOT really there in women's varicose veions either. Nonetheless, it is a fact that people often interpret such subjects as "blue" without necessarily being outright liars. It is a purely psychological phenomenon that comes into play when the object is small like a fingernail. If the object is large like an entire body, the illusion does NOT occur and that is why there are NO photos that appear to show "blue corpses." I think doctors understand this generally but also realize how important it is to give a name to this extremely important diagnostic phenomenon--and that is the basis for the continuing use of the terms "cyanosis" or "cyanotic." It is used to describe things that are essentialy far more colorless and pale or grey than normaL.

In a similar way, hydrocyanic acid is called "Blausaeure" in German ("blue acid" if translated literally) even though the acid itself is totally colorless and so is the gaseous form. For some holocaust liars, however, including so-called "holocaust scholars" these simple facts are unknown and so they trap themselves with their gross ignorance as to the historic origin of the word.

There is absolutely NO real "BLUE" coloring present in cyanosis at all. For all his interesting info in his posts above, Occam's Razor provides absolutely NO reason technically or chemically for why the coloring of oxygen-poor blood should appear "blue" through the skin. The skin is NOT some kind of blue filter. The arguments of Charles S. Provan about "blue corpses" are pure bunk just as his insistence that the entire universe was "c-r-e-a-t-e-d," by you know who, about ten thousand years ago are also pure bunk. In typical "creationist" fashion however, Provan was able to disguise his specious arguments with references to some examples of serious scientific literature. He also tweaked the meaning of some keywords just as "holocaust scholars" tweak the meaning of "Endloesung" to mean "extermination." But it was never anything but pure bunk, nonetheless. Shame on everyone who fell for him.


Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!

[Kingfisher]

There is absolutely NO real "BLUE" coloring present in cyanosis at all. For all his interesting info in his posts above, Occam's Razor provides absolutely NO reason technically or chemically for why the coloring of oxygen-poor blood should appear "blue" through the skin. The skin is NOT some kind of blue filter.

Veins appear blue, although the blood in them is not blue, because of the contrast against the pink skin. There is a condition known as Blue-baby syndrome. Doubtless the baby's skin appears blue because it is less pink or darker pink than the brain expects it to be. The same could apply to corpses.

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

From the image in the Wikepdia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_baby_syndrome it would seem the more appropriate name for "blue Baby Syndrome" would be "PURPLE-RED Baby Syndrome." The baby does NOT look blue at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cyanotic_neonate.jpg


Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!

[friedrichjansson]

Here's another citation in connection with the observation made by Occam's Razor that both the ability to turn red and the ability to turn blue(ish) are connected to hemoglobin, so the argument that redness would not appear because of anemia discredits the accounts of blueness.

Knight's Forensic Pathology, 3rd ed., p. 356:

Cyanosis
The colour of blood depends upon the absolute quantity of
oxyhaemoglobin and reduced haemoglobin present in the
erythrocytes. The normal pink colour of well-oxygenated
skin may change to purple or blue when oxygen is lacking -
indeed, the word 'cyanosis' is derived from the Greek, mean-
ing 'dark blue'. Cutaneous cyanosis, however, depends on
the absolute amount of reduced haemoglobin, rather than
the proportion of reduced haemoglobin to oxyhaemoglo-
bin. It is not apparent in marked anaemia, even if the ratio
of oxyhaemoglobin to reduced haemoglobin is low. There
must be at least 5 g of reduced haemoglobin per lOOml
blood before cyanosis becomes evident, irrespective of the
total amount of haemoglobin.

[Kingfisher]

From the image in the Wikepdia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_baby_syndrome it would seem the more appropriate name for "blue Baby Syndrome" would be "PURPLE-RED Baby Syndrome." The baby does NOT look blue at all.

That's my point. It isn't blue, objectively, but can be perceived as blue.

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

Well, I think there are more than just "perceptions" involved here. If one looks carefully at the "blue baby" in the Wikepedia image, one will also notice that the (white??) cloth upon which the baby is resting "appears" to be pale blue, even the parts of the cloth pattern that were probably white-- which suggests to me that the entire color balance of the image had been shofted to dramatize the desired color toward a bluish tint. As I wrote earlier, if we were actually viewing the baby with reasonably normal eyes and normal lighting--we wouid NOTsee or perceive even the purplish coloring that seems to be present.

Colors can be altered or "enhanced" so easily today with the new technologies.

"Cyanotic" is NOT just another word, medical or otherwise, for BLUE. It is merely the absence of the normal skin coloring--but that can still be an important indicator of failed body function.


Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!

[Breker]

The little one certainly looks red to me. The lighting does look somewhat on the dark side.

B.