Do you think Jews control the holocaust revisionist "movement"?

[Daniel]

This is a question that is inspired by a Robert Faurisson comment in the preface to Dissecting the Holocaust (1994).

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6912&p=89356#p89356

[Waldgänger]

If the Germans invented the gas chamber mythos as a means of flexing on Jews, they certainly haven't gotten much positive out of it. I don't see how this self-own story of willing-yet-innocent sonderkommandos makes any sense for Israeli supremacy.

[Lamprecht]

No, I don't think that they do. At most, they might invent weak arguments or artificially promote them as "mainstream revisionism" but that's just a standard shill tactic.

This is a question that is inspired by a Robert Faurisson comment in the preface to Dissecting the Holocaust (1994).

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6912&p=89356#p89356

What I think he is trying to say is that as the gas chamber lie eventually becomes exposed and widely accepted as such, Jews of that future period will quote Jewish authors that made revisionist arguments. Probably, they would also point to the USSR and western allies as being creators of or complicit in the lie -- or even the ones mostly responsible for it, taking advantage of Jews who had just survived these camps by convincing them to officially testify that they saw these fake atrocities take place.
Next, they can say something like, "and then later, Jewish historians were also conditioned into believing it just like non-Jews fell for these lies."
What I say to that is that currently, Jewish elites refuse to allow actual forensic investigations of the alleged extermination camps. There is no valid academic justification for this. It wouldn't take long to put the matter to rest once and for all.

[Archie]

You have to remember that Faurisson is saying that in 1994. At that time, quite a few revisionists thought that the gas chamber myth was about to fall at any moment. They thought some truly major concessions were on the horizon. But it didn't happen. (There were some significant concessions like Majdanek, but they've held firm on the six million, the gas chambers, etc). What happened instead is that the Jews doubled down HARD and banned holocaust denial all over Europe and they put pressure on people like David Irving. That is the main Jewish strategy on this issue, to crush revisionism with brute force. And it has worked pretty well. Or at least it's bought them some time.

If we were to gain some ground and the demise of The Holocaust were imminent, I think Jews probably would switch up their strategy. They would try to get out in front of it in some way and more of them would probably try to get into revisionism.

[Hektor]

@Archie....

There is a fair amount of people that disbelieve the gas chambers. But you'd only know this from private conversations with them. I'm thinking here about people that are highly educated and do have postgraduate qualifications in history or related fields. Some figured this out themselves, just by asking questions, which common Holocaust Research doesn't really answer. Others of course got hold of Revisionist literature...

But the vast majority of people with media exposure and with plain education will think that it is somehow true... After all Jews, Journalists and Educators won't like to us about such a matter? Imagine how many people would have to be in on it? There is a huge amount of people that think like that. They can't get around that stuff that is implanted into the culture can be wrong as anybody seems to believe that.

As for the suggestion that "Jews control the Revisionist movement".... By what mechanism would that be? Generally Revisionists work independently unlike those promoting the Holocaust that work for civil society organizations, universities, media, etc. Whose agenda can be warped. Not all of those are "controlled by Jews neither"... But they go with the flow.... And once some Myth has been promoted for long and with enthusiasm, it is difficult to get rid of.

[Daniel]

There's an unwitting admission that jews control holocaust revisionism when it's said that they control the timetable for when this hoax will be revealed for what it is. Until then gentiles who speak the truth on the matter are punished, and when the jews are ready to reveal the truth they will pass themselves off as the unravelers of the fable.

Doesn't that mean that they basically control holocaust revisionism? When this fraud is revealed to the world they will not lose one iota of their almost-monolithic power.

This control doesn't mean that all gentile holocaust revisionists are part of some conspiracy. They're not. But looked at from this particular angle gentile holocaust revisionists could be viewed as being used by jews.

I view Catholics who teach the truth about Jews (the few that do) and the anti-gentile contents of the jewish holy books to be much more dangerous to jews in the long run than gentile holocaust revisionists. That's not to say I don't respect holocaust revisionists. Many of them are gutsier and much smarter than I am.

But at the end of the day I don't see this research as causing any real body blow to jewish hegemony. I hope the Church will rebound in the future and start going after jews, as the Church did in past times.

[hermod]

There's an unwitting admission that jews control holocaust revisionism when it's said that they control the timetable for when this hoax will be revealed for what it is. Until then gentiles who speak the truth on the matter are punished, and when the jews are ready to reveal the truth they will pass themselves off as the unravelers of the fable.

Faurisson didn't say that Jews control the timetable for when this hoax will be revealed for what it is. Faurisson said that Jews dropped some parts of the Holohoax when those stories had become untenable (damage-control tactic) and that Jews took credit for those concessions by posturing as if they had never subscribed to the now-polluted-and-embarrassing parts of the Holohoax (such as the Western gas chambers and the Jewish-fat soap) in order to preserve their own reputation as competent historians and more importantly as reliable sources of information. In other words, Faurisson said that the Jewish antirevisionist historians acted as if they meant: "We, real historians (because antirevisionists claim for obvious reaons that revisionist historians are not historians at all), didn't lie. Only misinformed audiences once believed in Nazi soap and the Dachau gas chamber, but we knew all along that it was just propaganda. So our own past statements about gas chambers at Auschwitz and Treblinka remain valid. You can keep relying on us. The Holocaust is real in spite of all the rotten parts in it."

7 representative extermination camps mentioned by the British Chief Prosecutor in his description of the Holocaust at the Nuremberg show trial;
4 of them downgraded as mere concentration camps a few decades after WWII :

https://postimg.cc/XGGLQC7y

[karl_fallout4]

Holocaust revisionism is a pretty dangerous topic, they'll attempt to modify their stance when their position sounds too ridiculous to believe. It's how they moved from the "6 million were killed in extermination camps" to "Only a million or so were actually killed in the camps, most deaths took place on the Eastern Front", citing vague accounts and obviously impossible collaborator accounts.

For some revisionists this was good enough- it gave them a chance to try and reduce the official death toll, which didn't work out. These revisionists constantly try to seek the middle ground at the expense of the truth, so they are willing to concede that there was a motive, etc. but there is no direct control over the holocaust revisionist movement. Regardless, being forced to concede that their narrative regarding the holocaust was false would severely damage their reputation and they would lose credibility, so the only thing the holocaust truthers can do is to try to downplay and strawman revisionist arguments, like the "wooden doors" argument.

[Archie]

There's an unwitting admission that jews control holocaust revisionism when it's said that they control the timetable for when this hoax will be revealed for what it is. Until then gentiles who speak the truth on the matter are punished, and when the jews are ready to reveal the truth they will pass themselves off as the unravelers of the fable.

Doesn't that mean that they basically control holocaust revisionism? When this fraud is revealed to the world they will not lose one iota of their almost-monolithic power.

This control doesn't mean that all gentile holocaust revisionists are part of some conspiracy. They're not. But looked at from this particular angle gentile holocaust revisionists could be viewed as being used by jews.

I view Catholics who teach the truth about Jews (the few that do) and the anti-gentile contents of the jewish holy books to be much more dangerous to jews in the long run than gentile holocaust revisionists. That's not to say I don't respect holocaust revisionists. Many of them are gutsier and much smarter than I am.

But at the end of the day I don't see this research as causing any real body blow to jewish hegemony. I hope the Church will rebound in the future and start going after jews, as the Church did in past times.

Just because they have some choice in how to play things doesn't mean that they "control the timetable" in some absolute way. I don't think anyone is saying that. Usually with things like this people/institutions have some degree of choice but subject to various external forces and circumstances that are beyond their control. For example, say you have a politician (or CEO) facing a potential scandal. If the politician were in full control, obviously the ideal would be to bury the scandal completely. Pay off witnesses, keep it out of the press, etc. But sometimes that isn't possible and in that case there's a decision to be made. The politician "controls the timetable" only to the extent he has the choice of trying to get out in front of it/manage it or working a cover-up.

With Jews and revisionism, they have a demonstrated a considerable amount of power with Western governments which are all onboard with the holocaust and of course in the mainstream press. Online was a big problem for them but they have successfully ramped up censorship efforts on the major platforms and gotten revisionist books banned from Amazon. The revisionism that survives now is on individual websites which are difficult to find because they don't show up in Google search results and they can't be shared on major social media platforms. For now then, they don't have any reason to make any major concessions on the holocaust issue.

Jews are concerned about alternative platforms that have sprouted up like Telegram etc and they are definitely monitoring these. I do not think there are any special efforts to infiltrate revisionism at this time but there certainly is on the right more broadly. Bitchute for example has a lot of frankly retarded conspiracy material that seems intended to drown out just about anything else. Rather than "control" revisionism directly, they can just marginalize it, dilute it, and drown it out with lots of nonsense.

[Hektor]

There's an unwitting admission that jews control holocaust revisionism when it's said that they control the timetable for when this hoax will be revealed for what it is. Until then gentiles who speak the truth on the matter are punished, and when the jews are ready to reveal the truth they will pass themselves off as the unravelers of the fable.
.....

I don't think they control the time table. And even if, how would that prove "control of Holocaust Revisionism".

What's actually done is running campaigns to lobby for Holocaust Indoctrination, especially of Kids. That way they of course heavily influence the narrative. And in a sense, they've calculated/guesstimated Holocaust Revisionists into the equation. But that doesn't mean they control them.

It was to be expected that such a preposterous narrative would get people doubting it, point out oddities and then search for evidence on the matter. Now what do with them?
Fair debate? - You-ll lose.
Insults? Can make you look bad, so at least do it in a tricky way.
But how about using the affair? Simply claim that those "Denying The Holocaust" are vile Neonazis that want to hurt Holocaust Survivor and gas them a second time. That way you can immunize the Believers even more... draw them emotionally onto your side. Get them to not listen to those "evil deniers", etc. Those tactics made a reappearance with the COVID scam.

What keeps the Holocaust going is the combination of arrogance with ignorance among Western Elites, nowadays. There is too many people benefitting from it in some way, while others are simply too stupid to grasp that they're obviously being lied to.

[Revision]

COVID is not a scam or conspiracy.

[hermod]

Holocaust revisionism is a pretty dangerous topic, they'll attempt to modify their stance when their position sounds too ridiculous to believe. It's how they moved from the "6 million were killed in extermination camps" to "Only a million or so were actually killed in the camps, most deaths took place on the Eastern Front", citing vague accounts and obviously impossible collaborator accounts.

Untrue. The Soviet-Allied narrative at the Nuremberg show trials was: 4 million Jews killed in extermination camps (with all the German concentration camps portrayed as extermination camps) and 2 million Jews killed elsewhere (mainly shot on the Eastern front). The victors of WWII and the state-sponsored storytellers (aka academic/orthodox/antirevisionist/exterminationist historians) never claimed that 6 million Jews were killed in extermination camps.

so the only thing the holocaust truthers can do is to try to downplay and strawman revisionist arguments, like the "wooden doors" argument.

Some revisionist historians mentioned wooden doors only when the administrators of the Auschwitz museum and the orthodox historians refused to admit publicly that the Auschwitz 'gas chamber' was a postwar Soviet 'reconstruction' (forgery). Revisionist historians were right to point out the inconsistencies of the Auschwitz 'gas chamber' (such as the laughable wooden door with a glass) as long as the tour guides kept telling that it was a Nazi gas chamber in its original state (what was just a big lie) and the orthodox historians deliberately kept silent about that (what was a big lie by omission).

Who do you call "the holocaust truthers" ???

[Hektor]

COVID is not a scam or conspiracy.

Nope, that's exactly what it is.
Zero evidence for virus (SARSCOV2), when challenged you will get a lot of pseudoscience, but no methodologically sound proof. In court government official - by implication - admitted that they don't have proof for their virus.
Interest groups pushing the covid scare to pursuit political and financial agendas, based on 'belief in science'.
Like the Holocaust is based on guilt-tripping, the COVID-scam is based on fear of some invisible pathogen, never proven to even only exist ever. SARSCOV2 is essentially a computer generated model of an imaginary virus using data from monkey cells killed of in the lab via poisoning and starving. The model, which consists of RNA-molecules and proteins, is used to set up PCR-tests. Those tests will occasionally be positive depending on the configuration and condition of the person being tested. Spread the test, get "cases" and you claim that there is a "pandemic".

[Revision]

Do you even know anyone who has had Covid? PCR test are not random. Somehow when people I know have Covid symptoms they also have positive test results and then negative results when no symptoms.

"In court government official - by implication - admitted that they don't have proof for their virus."

What are you even referring? And if this is true why should I think some random "government official" somehow knows about these things. And why let him tell this to the public or let alone know about this "scam"? It's dangering the evil conspiracy!

[Lamprecht]

The virus is probably real. People have been getting coronaviruses for a long time, calling it "The common cold."
The real scam is that various governments decided to do "lockdowns" for a virus with a 0.03% death rate (essentially 0 for under 40 year old's) and then blamed all of the economic problems that resulted on the virus itself, rather than their decisions. They also promoted a "vaccine" (not a vaccine) that has caused millions of deaths, doesn't even work, and decided to discriminate against young, healthy people that refuse it. For a long time they refused to acknowledge that there was such a thing as natural immunity, which is the best form of immunity.
The brainwashing became so extreme that refusing constant injections resulted in people accusing you of being a murderer. In the USA, presumably during the height of this "Pandemic" there were riots in the streets in response to a Black man dying of fentanyl overdose while a cop was doing a "non-lethal hold" he was taught to do. Yet somehow, this did not promote the spread of the virus, but people were fined for having more than 4 guests over at their house.
Personally, I find it difficult to accept that a coordinated campaign by various western governments to violate people's basic rights (and then blaming that on a virus rather than their decisions), was anything less than a conspiracy. Someone told them to do it. "Your civil rights don't actually matter if there's a virus that kills less than 1% of people" isn't something we agreed to. In fact, everyone always had the right to wear a hazmat suit around and lock themselves inside their own home indefinitely.