Hermann Goering Denying His Guilt

[hermod]

But Lipstadt told me that no one denied anything.

Lipstadt...


https://postimg.cc/hXy2WSGR


https://postimg.cc/SJ5qGYBw


https://postimg.cc/WDj2DFqg

[hermod]

"Why Didn't Any Nazi Deny" and the scope of the "conspiracy"
viewtopic.php?t=12287

On the same fallacious and conspiratorial tone, one could ask as well: Why didn't any (or more) American soldiers and politicians deny that the U.S. army has been hiding extraterrestrial spaceships and beings at Area 51 for decades if that's not true?

[Hektor]

.....



It' s not "scientific method" she is using.

That's why I said "politically charged". And I apologize for my intellectual laziness after that. Beer game night with friends. I should have closed the forum and continued another day. I tripple posted and created all sorts of shenanigans.

Can you point to other good sites where I can see translated testimonies from the Nuremberg trials? Somewhere where it's gathered, filed, archived...something like that. I need a vpn on bitchute for this subject, and can only see it when embedded through these servers.

I had all volumes at some stage, but neglected to upload them all... Now they are stored somewhere. But well, they must be somewhere. And here they are:
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/subject_menus/imt.asp
https://nuremberg.law.harvard.edu/trans ... ase?seq=91
https://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law ... inals.html

Not sure how complete this is though.... There is the issue of details left out, possible. Also testability of documents may lack.

...(Coronacaust, affirming the consequent).
Same playbook, I've been thinking exactly that too and have been putting that out where such suggestions can get out "beneath the radar" of main news site's censors, there does appear to be some positive reception to it too, comedian Jimmy Carr just stuck his neck out and David Badiel rose to the bait, could this be going mainstream at last?

There is folks that apparently know quite well how to work the human mind. Obviously emotion needs to be worked up and then people need to be fed information that leads to inverse logic in them. Point to something emotionally charged... phenomenon and then let them in their fantasy assume a cause. With photography/film a lot gets possible. The more people get emotionally charged, the more they are prone to be judgmental and jump to conclusions (also inverse ones).

[hermod]

Was Heinrich Himmler Killed? (David Irving): http://www.bitchute.com/video/wXQFdM4bWJfj/

It would have been very interesting if Himmler would have been a defendant in the Nuremberg trials. Himmler was a Holocaust denier in the literal sense, he didn't just deny knowledge of it or personal guilt but he really denied that it ever happened.

Heinrich Himmler Denied the Holocaust: http://www.bitchute.com/video/5C17yVoHIBOK/

A Brief List of the Conveniently Deceased
by Thomas Kues
Published: 2008-05-23

Below I have compiled a list of former NS bureaucrats and camp personnel who after the war died in a fashion which could be described as “convenient” to the upholders and propagators of the officially sanctioned Holocaust narrative. They are all individuals who must have had insight into the truth regarding the “Final Solution” and the alleged gas chambers. A number of them are also known to have denied the existence of such killing facilities. Most of the listed people committed suicide, many of them under mysterious circumstances. The author of this article does not suggest that all of them were assassinated. Some of them may indeed have ended their own lives, for some reason or other. In any case, their deaths no doubt came convenient for certain people. It is my hope that this list will spur new research into some of the individual cases.

Heinrich Himmler (b. 1900) was the head of the SS and thus the highest responsible for the “Final solution to the Jewish problem,” by orthodox historians alleged to have meant the physical extermination of the European Jewry. After wandering the Flensburg area carrying false papers, Himmler was arrested by British troops on May 22, 1945. According to the official narrative, Himmler committed suicide late on May 23 by biting into a cyanide capsule which he had somehow managed to keep hidden inside his mouth for a whole day, despite eating a sandwich and being searched by his captors in the meantime.

Richard Baer (b. 1911) was commandant of Auschwitz I from May 11, 1944 and of Auschwitz II (Birkenau) from the end of 1944 until the evacuation of the camp in January 1945. After the war he lived near Hamburg under the assumed name Carl Neumann, working as a forester. He was arrested on December 21, 1960, and soon became the main prosecuted at the Frankfurt Auschwitz trial, then in preparation. Baer however never testified before the court, since he died in his prison cell in June 1963. The cause of death is variously given by historians as “natural causes” or “circulatory ailments,” but the autopsy did not rule out “ingestion of an odorless, non-corrosive poison” (cf. W. Stäglich, Auschwitz: A judge looks at the evidence, pp. 233-5). According to a brief article in the French right-wing newspaper Rivarol Baer had denied any knowledge of homicidal gas chambers during his pre-trial interrogations.

Josef Kramer (b. 1906) was the commandant of Birkenau from May to December 1944. In a lengthy statement made by Kramer to his British captors on May 22, 1945, he explicitly denied the existence of gas chambers at Birkenau. Kramer was sentenced to death at a trial concerning his time as commandant of the Bergen-Belsen camp. He was hanged on December 13, 1945.

https://postimg.cc/NyDSrrFs

https://postimg.cc/bZjBCR2Y

Friedrich Hartjenstein (b. 1905) was together with Kramer in charge of Birkenau from the end of November 1943 to the beginning of May 1944. He was sentenced to death twice: first by a British tribunal on June 5, 1946, the second time by a French tribunal on July 2, 1954. None of the sentences were related to his activity at Birkenau. He allegedly died of a heart attack in his Paris prison cell on October 20, 1954.

Odilo Globocnik (b. 1904) was the SS and Police Leader of the Lublin District of the General Government and responsible for the construction of the alleged “pure extermination camps” Belzec, Sobibor, and Treblinka. According to most accounts, Globocnik allegedly poisoned himself with a cyanide capsule just after being captured by British troops in Austria on May 31, 1945. Other sources claim he was killed by partisans or Jewish “avengers” in May or June 1945.

Hermann Höfle (b. 1911) was Globocnik’s deputy and responsible for deportations of Jews to the Aktion Reinhardt camps. After the war he was interned by British forces but soon released. He allegedly committed suicide by hanging himself in a prison cell in Vienna on August 20, 1962, just before his trial was to begin.

Irmfried Eberl (b. 1910) was the first commandant of Treblinka and a former euthanasia doctor. After the war Eberl undisturbed practiced as a physician in the Austrian town of Blaubeuren . He was arrested on January 8, 1948 by the American occupying forces. He allegedly committed suicide by hanging in his custody cell on February 16, 1948.

Franz Paul Stangl (b. 1908) served as commandant of Sobibor from March to September 1942, and as commandant of Treblinka from September 1942 to August 1943. After the war he was briefly interned but released and fled to Syria . In 1951 he and his family migrated to Brazil , where Stangl, living under his own name, worked at a Volkswagen factory. He was arrested in 1967 and extradited to West Germany , where he was sentenced to life in prison in 1970. While awaiting appeal he met and talked to Jewish journalist Gitta Sereny, who later published alleged transcripts of the conversations in her book Into that Darkness (1974). On June 28, 1971, the day after their last conversation, Stangl suddenly died, allegedly from a heart attack.

Gustav Franz Wagner (b. 1911) was reportedly deputy commandant at Sobibor. After the war Wagner migrated to Syria and later in the early 1950’s to Brazil , where he lived under his own name, working as a farmhand. After Simon Wiesenthal initiated a hunt for a man falsely identified as him, the real Wagner voluntarily handed himself over to the Brazil special police in São Paulo , on May 30, 1978. According to an article in the newspaper Folha de São Paulo, June 2, 1978, Wagner had stated to the police: “I never saw any gas chamber at Sobibor” ( Eu nunca vi nenhuma camara de gas em Sobibor). On June 22, 1979, the Rio Supreme Court dismissed all claims for Wagner’s extradition. On October 30, 1980, Wagner allegedly committed suicide by stabbing himself to death in the bathroom of his rural home. The circumstances of the suicide have been deemed suspicious even by some exterminationist writers. Brazil citizen and former Sobibor inmate Stanislaw Szmajzner, who “confronted” Wagner at the time of his arrest, has let out that he “believes” that Wagner was in fact killed by Jewish “avengers” (Die Zeit, October 11, 1991). The author is currently researching the Wagner case together with local Brazilian revisionists.

Kurt Bolender (b. 1912) was another SS posted at Sobibor. When arrested in 1961, he initially denied killings at the camp. He is alleged to have committed suicide by hanging on October 21, 1966, just before his sentence was pronounced. According to the American magazine Time, Bolender left behind a suicide note stating that he was innocent.

Kurt Gerstein (b. 1905) was an engineer and SS hygiene technician who in Allied captivity after the war claimed to have visited Belzec and to there have witnessed a gassing of Jews. He wrote a number of “reports” concerning the alleged visit, which were later presented as “undisputable proof” of homicidal gas chambers. On July 25, 1945, soon after the French started interrogating him, Gerstein was found hanged in his cell. Gerstein’s widow was not informed about her husband’s death until June 1948 (cf. Henri Roques, The “Confessions of Kurt Gerstein”).

Alexander Laak, former commandant of the Jägala camp in Estonia where a large number of Jews were supposedly massacred, is alleged to have committed suicide by hanging in his garage in Winnipeg , Canada . A number of Laak’s subordinates had at the time been given harsh sentences at a Soviet show trial. According to an article in Der Tagespiegel September 8, 1960, Laak had declared the Soviet allegations against him to be “99% lies and Communist propaganda.” In Michael Elkin's book Forged in Fury (1971) it is claimed that a Jewish "avenger" named Arnie Berg travelled to Winnipeg to kill Laak, and that Laak hanged himself under Berg's supervision in order to not have his wife shot by Berg.

Herbert Cukurs was a Latvian who allegedly participated in a massacre of 30,000 Jews in Riga . After the war Cukurs lived in São Paulo , where he later was “recognized” by two Jews and became a target of extreme harassment by the local Jewish community. In 1965 Cukurs was tricked to go to Uruguay , where he was brutally murdered with gun shots and hammer blows from unknown perpetrators. His dismembered remains were then sent back to his family in a box. According to the newspaper Folha de São Paulo, Cukurs had insisted to his family that he was innocent of the allegations.

The above list should by no means be considered complete.

https://codoh.com/library/document/a-br ... ceased/en/

[Archie]

Does anyone actually buy into the 'suicides' of Goering and Himmler? Moreover do they believe in cyanide capsules? I have always thought this is the stuff of a febrile and over active mind.

The Himmler suicide is fishy but in the case of Goering I think it was almost certainly suicide. You are right that it is not very believable to think Goering had kept a cyanide capsule in his tooth for months and months. But David Irving's version of what happened is that he'd made a deal with a sympathetic American guard who slipped him the capsule in exchange for certain valuables. A real suicide also makes sense in terms of incentives. There would not have been any reason for the Allies to have done a fake suicide job on Goering at that point. It would only make sense if 1) the Allies wanted to prevent him from revealing something potentially very embarrassing and explosive. Or 2) a prisoner could be killed by overly aggressive interrogators who are eager for information. Either of these would likely be covered up with a faked suicide. But in either case, Goering would have been killed early on when he was first taken into custody (as happened with Himmler), not right before the execution. At that point, the Allies 100% wanted to execute Goering for the propaganda value of it and they were not at all happy that the most prominent Nazi in the dock managed to evade the noose.

[Archie]

Himmler's April 1945 interview with Norbert Masur of the WJC is available online. The frequently quoted passage about the epidemics and crematoria is on page six.

https://collections.ushmm.org/search/catalog/irn500231#?rsc=177282

[Archie]

Here is another bit from Goering's IMT testimony. Volume 9, page 611.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: Let me remind you of the evidence that has been given before this Court, that as far as Auschwitz alone is concerned, 4,000,000 people were exterminated. Do you remember that?

GORING: This I have heard as a statement here, but I consider it in no way proved-that figure, I mean.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: If you do not consider it proved, let me remind you of the affidavit of Hoettl, who was Deputy Group Leader of the Foreign Section, of the Security Section of Amt IV of the RSHA. He says that approximately 4,000,000 Jews have been killed in the concentration camps, while an additional 2,000,000 met death in other ways. Assume that these figures-one is a Russian figure, the other a German-assume they are even 50 percent correct, assume it was 2,000,000 and 1,000,000, are you telling this Tribunal that a Minister with your power in the Reich could remain ignorant that that was going on?

GORING: This I maintain, and the reason for this is that these things were kept secret from me. I might add that in my opinion not even the Führer knew the extent of what was going on. This is also explained by the fact that Himmler kept all these matters very secret. We were never given figures or any other details.

SIR DAVID MAXWELL-FYFE: But, Witness, haven't you access to the foreign press, the press department in your ministry, to foreign broadcasts? You see, there is evidence that altogether, when you take the Jews and other people, something like 10,000,000 people have been done to death in cold blood, apart from those killed in battle. Something like 10,000,000 people. Do you say that you never saw or heard from the foreign press, in broadcasts, that this was going on?

GORING: First of all, the figure 10,000,000 is not established in any way. Secondly, throughout the war I did not read the foreign press, because I considered it nothing but propaganda. Thirdly, though I had the right to listen to foreign broadcasts, I never did so, simply because I did not want to listen to propaganda. Neither did I listen to home propaganda. Only during the last 4 days of the war did I-and this I could prove--listen to a foreign broadcasting station for the first time.

The testimony offered by Goering is essentially that there may have been something going on at the concentration camps but he doesn't believe the huge numbers and he thinks that whatever it was it must have been Himmler going rogue and neither he nor Hitler knew anything about it.

If you read the book by G.M. Gilbert, it's clear that there was a major behind-the-scenes effort to convince the defendants of the mass murder claims and that eventually most of them accepted or at least went along with the claims to some extent (but with most of them insisting they'd only learned about it after the war). The main "evidence" that was used to try to propagandize the defendants was the concentration camp film shown in November 1945 right at the start of the proceedings and then later the confessions of Hoess. (Prosecutors also frequently invoked Hoess in court when questioning later defendants). Gilbert was essentially debating with Goering and others who were arguing that it would not have been technically possible for so many to have been killed at Auschwitz. Gilbert responded to this with statements from Hoess. Needless to say it is ABSURD that Goering would need to be "convinced" that any of this happened. If Goering didn't know, then it didn't happen.

I collected a few excerpts from Gilbert's book in this post:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13315&p=98155#p98155

[borjastick]

Does anyone actually buy into the 'suicides' of Goering and Himmler? Moreover do they believe in cyanide capsules? I have always thought this is the stuff of a febrile and over active mind.

The Himmler suicide is fishy but in the case of Goering I think it was almost certainly suicide. You are right that it is not very believable to think Goering had kept a cyanide capsule in his tooth for months and months. But David Irving's version of what happened is that he'd made a deal with a sympathetic American guard who slipped him the capsule in exchange for certain valuables. A real suicide also makes sense in terms of incentives. There would not have been any reason for the Allies to have done a fake suicide job on Goering at that point. It would only make sense if 1) the Allies wanted to prevent him from revealing something potentially very embarrassing and explosive. Or 2) a prisoner could be killed by overly aggressive interrogators who are eager for information. Either of these would likely be covered up with a faked suicide. But in either case, Goering would have been killed early on when he was first taken into custody (as happened with Himmler), not right before the execution. At that point, the Allies 100% wanted to execute Goering for the propaganda value of it and they were not at all happy that the most prominent Nazi in the dock managed to evade the noose.

You correctly touch on the point I was trying to make. After almost every major war in the last one hundred years or so the enemy leader(s) are suddenly deaded or executed before they could say much, the Allies definitely didn't want the real top men ie. Goering and Himmler to say anything awkward in court and b) the chance of an American guard giving Goering a cyanide capsule is in my opinion laughable.

Look at the situation with Saddam Hussein. He was allowed to rant and rave for a while in court then they found him guilty and quickly he was dropped on the end of a rope. Same goes almost for Ghaddaffi. Except the French and the British were so up to their necks in things with him that as far as I can work out he was executed by the French special forces. I am writing a book about this episode on the fall of Libya at the moment.

As for the publicity of Goering's death I think the Allies got far more from his suicide than they stood to gain and even lose in the dock. Had he had a proper session in the dock it could have been far too uncomfortable for them.

[hermod]

Does anyone actually buy into the 'suicides' of Goering and Himmler? Moreover do they believe in cyanide capsules? I have always thought this is the stuff of a febrile and over active mind.

The Himmler suicide is fishy but in the case of Goering I think it was almost certainly suicide. You are right that it is not very believable to think Goering had kept a cyanide capsule in his tooth for months and months. But David Irving's version of what happened is that he'd made a deal with a sympathetic American guard who slipped him the capsule in exchange for certain valuables. A real suicide also makes sense in terms of incentives. There would not have been any reason for the Allies to have done a fake suicide job on Goering at that point. It would only make sense if 1) the Allies wanted to prevent him from revealing something potentially very embarrassing and explosive. Or 2) a prisoner could be killed by overly aggressive interrogators who are eager for information. Either of these would likely be covered up with a faked suicide. But in either case, Goering would have been killed early on when he was first taken into custody (as happened with Himmler), not right before the execution. At that point, the Allies 100% wanted to execute Goering for the propaganda value of it and they were not at all happy that the most prominent Nazi in the dock managed to evade the noose.

Makes perfect sense, Archie.

The Nuremberg executions of 11 Nazi leaders were regarded by Jews as a re-enactement of the hanging of Haman the Agagite and his ten sons. In the Book of Esther, Haman was a Persian grand vizier who tried to exterminate the Jews and who was hanged with his ten sons because of that. But the Haman of the Nuremberg show 'trial' (Goering) finally evaded the gallows of Purim 1946 with a suicide pill...

https://postimg.cc/rKr75GZ9

https://postimg.cc/dDXppTPx

Haman

Haman (Hebrew: הָמָן Hāmān; also known as Haman the Agagite or Haman the evil) is the main antagonist in the Book of Esther, who according to the Hebrew Bible was a grand vizier in the Persian empire under King Ahasuerus


Haman in the Hebrew Bible

As described in the Book of Esther, Haman was the son of Hammedatha the Agagite. After Haman was appointed the principal minister of the king Ahasuerus, all of the king's servants were required to bow down to Haman, but Mordechai refused to. Angered by this, and knowing of Mordechai's Jewish nationality, Haman convinced Ahasuerus to allow him to have all of the Jews in the Persian empire killed.[7]

The plot was foiled by Queen Esther, the king's recent wife, who was herself a Jew. Esther invited Haman and the king to two banquets. In the second banquet, she informed the king that Haman was plotting to kill her (and the other Jews). This enraged the king, who was further angered when (after leaving the room briefly and returning) he discovered Haman had fallen on Esther's couch, intending to beg mercy from Esther, but which the king interpreted as a sexual advance.[8]

On the king's orders, Haman was hanged from the 50-cubit-high gallows that had originally been built by Haman himself, on the advice of his wife Zeresh, in order to hang Mordecai.[9] The bodies of Haman's ten sons were also hanged, after they died in battle against the Jews.[10] The Jews also killed about 75,000 of their enemies in self-defense.[11]


Purim traditions

The Jewish holiday of Purim commemorates the story of the Jews' deliverance and Haman's defeat. On that day, the Book of Esther is publicly read and much noise and tumult is raised at every mention of Haman's name. A type of ratchet noisemaker called in Hebrew a ra'ashan (רעשן) (in Yiddish: "grogger" or "hamandreyer") is used to express disdain for Haman. Pastry known as hamentashen (Yiddish for 'Haman's pockets'; known in Hebrew as אזני המן, ozney Haman, 'Haman's ears') are traditionally eaten on this day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haman

https://postimg.cc/zL7KHWFD

Good to know that the 1st postwar Holocaust 'trial' (Lüneburg Trial) began on Yom Kippur 1945 and the main Holocaust 'trial' (Nurembeg Trial) ended on Yom Kippur 1946. In Jewish calendar, Yom Kippur is Judgment Day, the Day of Atonement.

https://postimg.cc/VdvZFq7h

https://postimg.cc/SXMGvV8Z

Yom Kippur (/ˌjɒm kɪˈpʊər, ˌjɔːm ˈkɪpər, ˌjoʊm-/;[1] Hebrew: יוֹם כִּיפּוּר, romanized: Yōm Kīpūr, IPA: [ˈjom kiˈpuʁ], lit. 'Day of Atonement'; plural יום הכיפורים, Yom HaKipurim) is the holiest day of the year in Judaism. Its central themes are atonement and repentance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur

[hermod]

The testimony offered by Goering is essentially that there may have been something going on at the concentration camps but he doesn't believe the huge numbers and he thinks that whatever it was it must have been Himmler going rogue and neither he nor Hitler knew anything about it.

If you read the book by G.M. Gilbert, it's clear that there was a major behind-the-scenes effort to convince the defendants of the mass murder claims and that eventually most of them accepted or at least went along with the claims to some extent (but with most of them insisting they'd only learned about it after the war). The main "evidence" that was used to try to propagandize the defendants was the concentration camp film shown in November 1945 right at the start of the proceedings and then later the confessions of Hoess. (Prosecutors also frequently invoked Hoess in court when questioning later defendants). Gilbert was essentially debating with Goering and others who were arguing that it would not have been technically possible for so many to have been killed at Auschwitz. Gilbert responded to this with statements from Hoess. Needless to say it is ABSURD that Goering would need to be "convinced" that any of this happened. If Goering didn't know, then it didn't happen.

That's true. And Goering was no exception in that regard. All the defendants at the main Nuremberg Trial had been turned into Holocaust believers. In order to achieve that, the Soviet-Allied victors had used 3 tricks: the conspiracy theory thing (implying secrecy), the notorious horror movie full of very graphic typhus victims screened on the 8th day of the 'trial', and the impressive 'confessions' of some alleged perpetrators (mainly Hoess and Ohlendorf). So, as far as the Holocaust is concerned, the top Nazi leaders prosecuted at Nuremberg had no reason to deny anything but their own involvement.

https://postimg.cc/kRwJPkLq

https://postimg.cc/d77z9LF8

One must also know that recording false confessions in courts was the standard procedure at the Moscow show trials of Stalin's Great Purge. Andrei Vyshinsky, the main state prosecutor of Stalin's Moscow Trials, headed the Soviet prosecution team at the Nuremberg Trials and is known as the modern father of the principle that "confession of the accused is the queen of evidence."

https://postimg.cc/hhBstfXf

https://postimg.cc/9Db5JvsB

https://postimg.cc/75wjJwmN

https://postimg.cc/PN54w0Mj

https://postimg.cc/kVk048Z2

https://postimg.cc/DS60Lpg9

[forasanerworld]

Does anyone actually buy into the 'suicides' of Goering and Himmler? Moreover do they believe in cyanide capsules? I have always thought this is the stuff of a febrile and over active mind.

The Himmler suicide is fishy but in the case of Goering I think it was almost certainly suicide. You are right that it is not very believable to think Goering had kept a cyanide capsule in his tooth for months and months. But David Irving's version of what happened is that he'd made a deal with a sympathetic American guard who slipped him the capsule in exchange for certain valuables. A real suicide also makes sense in terms of incentives. There would not have been any reason for the Allies to have done a fake suicide job on Goering at that point. It would only make sense if 1) the Allies wanted to prevent him from revealing something potentially very embarrassing and explosive. Or 2) a prisoner could be killed by overly aggressive interrogators who are eager for information. Either of these would likely be covered up with a faked suicide. But in either case, Goering would have been killed early on when he was first taken into custody (as happened with Himmler), not right before the execution. At that point, the Allies 100% wanted to execute Goering for the propaganda value of it and they were not at all happy that the most prominent Nazi in the dock managed to evade the noose.

You correctly touch on the point I was trying to make. After almost every major war in the last one hundred years or so the enemy leader(s) are suddenly deaded or executed before they could say much, the Allies definitely didn't want the real top men ie. Goering and Himmler to say anything awkward in court and b) the chance of an American guard giving Goering a cyanide capsule is in my opinion laughable.

Look at the situation with Saddam Hussein. He was allowed to rant and rave for a while in court then they found him guilty and quickly he was dropped on the end of a rope. Same goes almost for Ghaddaffi. Except the French and the British were so up to their necks in things with him that as far as I can work out he was executed by the French special forces. I am writing a book about this episode on the fall of Libya at the moment.

As for the publicity of Goering's death I think the Allies got far more from his suicide than they stood to gain and even lose in the dock. Had he had a proper session in the dock it could have been far too uncomfortable for them.

the chance of an American guard giving Goering a cyanide capsule is in my opinion laughable.

I'm sure I read somewhere that an Amercian psychologist (psychiatist?) attending Goering died by EXACTLY the same manner some ten years later, surely a bit of a coincidence of true?

[Archie]

That's true. And Goering was no exception in that regard. All the defendants at the main Nuremberg Trial had been turned into Holocaust believers. In order to achieve that, the Soviet-Allied victors had used 3 tricks: the conspiracy theory thing (implying secrecy), the notorious horror movie full of very graphic typhus victims screened on the 8th day of the 'trial', and the impressive 'confessions' of some alleged perpetrators (mainly Hoess and Ohlendorf). So, as far as the Holocaust is concerned, the top Nazi leaders prosecuted at Nuremberg had no reason to deny anything but their own involvement.

https://postimg.cc/kRwJPkLq

https://postimg.cc/d77z9LF8

I hadn't seen that Fritzsche memoir. That's quite interesting and fits well with Gilbert's account.

Fritzsche in his IMT testimony went out of his way to denounce Hitler and Nazi ideology completely.

I should like to state further that this murder decree of Hitler's seems to me the end of every race theory, every race philosophy, every kind of race propaganda, for after this catastrophe any further advocacy of race theory would be equivalent to approval in theory of further murder. An ideology in the name of which 5 million people were murdered is a theory which cannot continue to exist.

This attitude is likely what got him acquitted.

P.S. As an aside, it's interesting that he says that it was well known that the Dachau gas chamber story was false but he's writing this in 1953 which is seven years before Martin Broszat famously made that concession in 1960. Maybe Gilbert and co. had noticed that that part of the propaganda "didn't take" so they decided to drop it?

[hermod]

I hadn't seen that Fritzsche memoir. That's quite interesting and fits well with Gilbert's account.

Fritzsche in his IMT testimony went out of his way to denounce Hitler and Nazi ideology completely.

I should like to state further that this murder decree of Hitler's seems to me the end of every race theory, every race philosophy, every kind of race propaganda, for after this catastrophe any further advocacy of race theory would be equivalent to approval in theory of further murder. An ideology in the name of which 5 million people were murdered is a theory which cannot continue to exist.

This attitude is likely what got him acquitted.

Maybe. But I think that they acquitted 3 of the accused Nazi leaders at the 1st Nuremberg 'trial' mainly in order to make that Soviet-style show trial look like a fair trial.

https://postimg.cc/kRNCgBW7

https://postimg.cc/2VMpNQsn

https://postimg.cc/0MbdvSRJ

https://postimg.cc/QFdFv3rF

[Hektor]

The testimony offered by Goering is essentially that there may have .... then it didn't happen.

That's true. And Goering was no exception in that regard. All the defendants at the main Nuremberg Trial had been turned into Holocaust believers. In order to achieve that, the Soviet-Allied victors had used 3 tricks: the conspiracy theory thing (implying secrecy), the notorious horror movie full of very graphic typhus victims screened on the 8th day of the 'trial', and the impressive 'confessions' of some alleged perpetrators (mainly Hoess and Ohlendorf). So, as far as the Holocaust is concerned, the top Nazi leaders prosecuted at Nuremberg had no reason to deny anything but their own involvement.
...

Goering disputed the figures saying that there is no evidence for that. But indeed I think it was the film as well as some of the testimony that had a persuasive effect on the accused. And bear in mind the situation. That obviously wasn't a talk in some 'civil circumstances'.

On the other hand, couldn't they imagine the Allies would be capable of 'making people talk' what they wanted to hear?!

Virtually any policemen I spoke to told me that testimony (of accused) is at least problematic and often false. So do attorneys.
Needless to say that some of them did tell me quite directly that they didn't believe the Holocaust narrative... It simply had too much smell of false accusation to it and real evidence was never been produced. But bear in mind, those are essentially middle class people in positions that don't have to much of multiplier value. The run of the mill yuppy or soccer mom will still believe it, because it was on the news, in film and there are survivors affirming it. They are of course used to sucking up all 'reputable information' as true. If authority figures seem to believe it, they will follow that, even if they have doubts or there is contradictions in the story. Their work is usually 'following procedures' and 'being compliant' so they will do that with other subjects as well.

What's the background of this Ohlendorf? Wasn't there indication that he was tortured and abused to become compliant?
I'd guess that many of those figures may have complied, because there were implicit threats as well. For many it was 'adapt or die'. Well, for some it was 'adapt and die'... It usually is.

[hermod]

Goering disputed the figures saying that there is no evidence for that. But indeed I think it was the film as well as some of the testimony that had a persuasive effect on the accused. And bear in mind the situation. That obviously wasn't a talk in some 'civil circumstances'.

On the other hand, couldn't they imagine the Allies would be capable of 'making people talk' what they wanted to hear?!

Virtually any policemen I spoke to told me that testimony (of accused) is at least problematic and often false. So do attorneys.

The accused Germans at the Nuremberg show trials were neither cops nor attorneys. Most of the people who are neither cops nor lawyers believe that an innocent man would never charge himself with nonexistent crimes. Most people don't know that there exists such a thing as false confessions and that false confessions happen quite often. Was even truer in the 1940s.

Their work is usually 'following procedures' and 'being compliant' so they will do that with other subjects as well.

The notorious German compliance helped the Holohoax after WWII because the new men in charge wanted the defeated Germans to "prove" the victors' conspiratorial propaganda stories with false testimonies at show trials. After WWII, obeying orders meant telling anti-Nazi BS before kangaroo courts.

What's the background of this Ohlendorf? Wasn't there indication that he was tortured and abused to become compliant?
I'd guess that many of those figures may have complied, because there were implicit threats as well. For many it was 'adapt or die'. Well, for some it was 'adapt and die'... It usually is.

Otto Ohlendorf was an economist who had commanded an Einsatzgruppe during the war. As most other star witnesses (including Rudolf Hoess himself) at post-WWII show trials, he made his impressive "confession" at the trials of others. He was much less talkative and self-incriminating 2 years later, at the Einsatzgruppe show trial (9th Nuremberg show trial, officially named The United States of America vs. Otto Ohlendorf, et al.), than he had been at the 1st Nuremberg show trial (when he could still hope that his collaboration with the victors at Nuremberg would finally help save his own neck).