Babi Yar 'massacre' debunked

[Barrington James]

Hannover…and Mr. Nobody...

The “Babi Yar” book on the site you sent me to was written in Russian I believe…The book I read was in English…printed about 1965…I have just looked all over for the book ..again…can’t find it anywhere…the cottage...the basement…

I do remember reading another book ...the White Hotel….in which the author of White Hotel had stolen a scene from the author Babi Yar…so I do remember Babi Yar well.

The stolen scene was the one in which the author and her daughter both fake their deaths by “taking a dive” before the machine guns had actually shot them…an unheard of clever trick back in those days no doubt...Anyway it fooled the machine gunners and also the Nazi officers whose job was to kill any of the moaning, screaming, shrieking, twitching, convulsing, dying but still living victims of the slaughter that went on all day…amazing story…pure crap of course …But I never forgot the scene since I got a double dose of it so to speak….It never even occurred to me at the time that machine gunning people 100 like that at the time would have been a very inefficient way to murder tens of thousands of people…The Bolsheviks never did it that way did they?
There is a certain irony there I think…or is it a lack of irony?

Anyway the photos of Babi Yar, the lack of bullets, graves and bones etc. ruined the entire story for me…I had a similar experience with the book and movie Papillon. The whole world was fooled by that book too…we are such saps…we believe whatever our media tells us…

I’ll keep looking for that book…

[MrNobody]

Hannover…and Mr. Nobody...

The “Babi Yar” book on the site you sent me to was written in Russian I believe…The book I read was in English…printed about 1965…I have just looked all over for the book ..again…can’t find it anywhere…the cottage...the basement…

Yes, but it was published in English in '67.

Here's a simple way to find out if the 2 books are the same.

At the time of the alleged massacre was the Author a 14 year old boy?

[Barrington James]

Mr.Nobody...The book I read was about how a women and her daughter both fooled the Nazis at the pits of Babi Yar as described...the book the White Hotel was also about a women...who..you guess it...fooled the Nazis at Babi Yar... If they were so smart I never figured out why they let themselves get into that situation in the first place...but who am I to judge….but I was glad to read that they finally came to their senses...I don't know where they are today...be interesting to find out...I have some questions for them.

BJ

[MrNobody]

Ok, why I had to ask is because in Anatoly Kuznetsov' "Novel", he also uses other "eyewitness" accounts to build the story, hence while I couldn't remember the particular women/daughter story you relayed it very well could have been in his version.

cheers

[Citizenfitz]

The question I would ask is, how certain is it that this aerial photo was taken when claimed?

[Citizenfitz]

I recall from around ten years ago, how someone floated the idea that Babi Yar should be excavated in a scientific manner so that the true facts of the massacre could be ascertained. Jewish groups immediately raised a big stink to the effect that this would be akin to defiling "holy ground". I think strong presumptive proof of the matter can well be found there.

It certainly smells of fish. Metal detectors would quickly find many of the tens of thousands of shell casings and bullets that would have been left behind from such a great massacre. Am I correct in guessing that metal detectors are banned from the site?

[NeilfromBris]

I know very little about ground penetrating radar but wouldnt that be a non-invasive way of finding out if at least there is evidence of soil strata disruption? If the bodies are supposed to have been buried and then dug up that must show up shouldnt it ?

[KostasL]

I know very little about ground penetrating radar but wouldnt that be a non-invasive way of finding out if at least there is evidence of soil strata disruption?

The ground penetrating radar would disturb the spirits of the people that were murdered there.
Didn't these people suffer enough when they were alive ?

And what's more by doing this, you claim doubts about the fact of the Babi-Yar massacre. Which is also an offend to these spirits.

[NeilfromBris]

Well you see Kostas,that is the question isnt it?
"Didnt these people suffer enough when they were live" ? There is a large amount of evidence to show that nobody "suffered" at Babi Yar.
So if it can be shown that it happened then do so, show me.
Why must I believe something just because someone says "its true"?
It is much like the whole Bigfoot thing here in the US.Many many people claim to have seen this animal but its existance is not accepted by main stream science because there is no concrete evidence.I dont believe in Bigfoot nor do I believe there was a massacre at Babi Yar.Show me some evidence and I will be the first to admit I was wrong.

[Hektor]

I know very little about ground penetrating radar but wouldnt that be a non-invasive way of finding out if at least there is evidence of soil strata disruption? If the bodies are supposed to have been buried and then dug up that must show up shouldnt it ?

One new variant is to claim that there was a "mud flood" in 1961 implying that this is the reason no physical evidence to any site can be found. (It's actually implying that it isn't worth searching, since all the evidence has been cast away. )

Holocaustians will also imply that air photos are worthless, because they were not taken, the day the shooting or the body disposal happened.

This has been claimed in a debate on a German forum.

[Breker]

I know very little about ground penetrating radar but wouldnt that be a non-invasive way of finding out if at least there is evidence of soil strata disruption? If the bodies are supposed to have been buried and then dug up that must show up shouldnt it ?

One new variant is to claim that there was a "mud flood" in 1961 implying that this is the reason no physical evidence to any site can be found. (It's actually implying that it isn't worth searching, since all the evidence has been cast away. )

Holocaustians will also imply that air photos are worthless, because they were not taken, the day the shooting or the body disposal happened.

This has been claimed in a debate on a German forum.

They can say what they like, but it simply exposes their fraudulent acts.

This particular photo was taken during the exact time of the alleged exhumations & cremations of supposedly, tens of thousands (cremation furnaces alleged to have been made from Jewish tombstones from nearby cemetery, cemetery shown in photo). The photo is available from the U.S. National Archives and is listed as: GX 3938 SG, exposure 105. If the alleged event were true, we would be seeing the massive cremations in progress, large numbers of German soldiers, equipment, the actual disturbed site, etc. We see nothing of the sort.

The photo was taken September 26, 1943, which according to the mythology is during the exact time of the alleged exhumations and mass outdoor cremations. Are the "Holocaust" cultists now saying that the dates they themselves cite for this alleged event are now fictitious?

And then that "new variant" of mud (quite appropriately named) just doesn't wash when one considers that these mythologists cannot show the world a single mass grave as alleged to exist.

http://vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndaerial.html

4.3. Babi Yar

It is said that after the city of Kyiv was occupied by German troops the Jews of this city were taken to Babi Yar, a ravine at the northwestern edge of the city, near the Jewish cemetery. According to eyewitness accounts, they were shot there, thrown into the ravine, and buried - according to some witness statements, the ravine was also blasted and the bodies buried under the rubble.

In late summer of 1943, when the Front retreated again, the bodies were allegedly exhumed and cremated on gigantic funeral pyres or in pits. These activities allegedly ended on September 28, 1943, when the Kyiv area was already part of the main battle zone.[14]

Illustration 3 shows the ravine of Babi Yar in an air photo taken by the Luftwaffe on September 26, 1943.[15] The part of the ravine (near the Jewish cemetery) where the massacre allegedly took place is shown as enlargement in illustration 4. What we see is in fact a placid and peaceful valley. Neither the topography nor the vegetation has been disrupted by human intervention. There are no access roads for the transport of humans or fuel, no fuel depots, no excavations, no burning sites, and no smoke.

We may conclude with certainty that no part of the Babi Yar ravine was subjected to topographical changes of any magnitude during the war years right up to the Soviet reoccupation of the area. The vegetation in this valley was also not disturbed.[16] Hence, there can have been no mass graves in these locations, and the mass cremations attested to can also not have taken place at this time.

Breker

[WS3838]

The "Babi Jar Massacre" propaganda fable originally was ONLY spread by the JTA (Jewish Telegraphic Agency in New York City) in October 1941. No other journalist and NO other news agency reported about it. The JTA never told a source for this "news" which was obviously just freely invented by the JTA.

I think today that the Babi Jar fable was produced in September 1941 by some perverted sado-masochistic Jewish brain in New York City and then spread by the JTA (Jewish Telegraph Agency) in New York in October 1941. It was a pure fantasy anti-German propaganda fable created for some formerly rich German Jews who then lived in New York, as revenge for their forced emigration from Germany.

Because the JTA never told a source or evidence for the Babi Jar massacre", in November a group of Journalists of the New York Times under W. Lawrence travelled to Kiev. He reported that they tried for many days in Kiev to find only ONE person who knew something about the massacre! They could not find one single person!!! In Kiev in 1943 2 million citizens had never heard about an alleged massacre of 30.000 of their citizens which allegedly had happened only a few months before only 5 miles away from the city!!! (NY Times 29. Nov. 1943).
Later the NKVD took over this Jewish Black Propaganda fable to use it in PsyWar.

The NKVD added more sex and crime to the Jewish fable like raping of beautiful girls - sex sells in Black Propaganda, too. Iswestija and Prawda printed the JTA fable with more and more victims and more and colorful atrocities and killing methods (blasting the victims with mines and grenades, killing with phenole injections, drowning in the sea or in the Dnepr). The number of victims rose from 30.000 to 50.000 to 100.000 to 200.000 with each new report....

I think the administration of Kiev never believed, that that massacre ever happened . That is is why they used the ravine, where it allegedly happened, as municipal dump site. And when the ravine was completely filled with garbage, they built a sporting field on top.
As far as I know the official war memorial in Kiew does no mention Babi Jar at all. So the - following the Jewish "eye-witnesses" - "biggest massacre of all times" is not even worth mentioning it with one word on a huge war memorial less than 10km away from the "crime scene" ... Forensic evidences from aerial pictures and press reports by independent American journalists visiting Kiev in 1943 prove beyond any doubt that Babi Jar never happened.

Many aerial photographies taken by Germans and Allies between 1941 and 1945 were analyzed by specialists: Result: "The ravine of Babi Yar underwent no noticeable changes in topography or vegetation up to the end of the war. There are no signs of human intervention during the time of German occupation. There was no human activity there at the time of the mass cremations attested to by the witnesses."
"Eye-witnesses" lie, aerial photography doesn't.

[hermod]

The "Babi Jar Massacre" propaganda fable originally was ONLY spread by the JTA (Jewish Telegraphic Agency in New York City) in October 1941. No other journalist and NO other news agency reported about it. The JTA never told a source for this "news" which was obviously just freely invented by the JTA.

I think today that the Babi Jar fable was produced in September 1941 by some perverted sado-masochistic Jewish brain in New York City and then spread by the JTA (Jewish Telegraph Agency) in New York in October 1941. It was a pure fantasy anti-German propaganda fable created for some formerly rich German Jews who then lived in New York, as revenge for their forced emigration from Germany.

Because the JTA never told a source or evidence for the Babi Jar massacre", in November a group of Journalists of the New York Times under W. Lawrence travelled to Kiev. He reported that they tried for many days in Kiev to find only ONE person who knew something about the massacre! They could not find one single person!!! In Kiev in 1943 2 million citizens had never heard about an alleged massacre of 30.000 of their citizens which allegedly had happened only a few months before only 5 miles away from the city!!! (NY Times 29. Nov. 1943).
Later the NKVD took over this Jewish Black Propaganda fable to use it in PsyWar.

Good to know that the JTA was led at that time by a Zionist named Boris Smolar.



http://www.jta.org/1986/02/03/archive/b ... rs-earlier

[Hannover]

Since new registrant LazaB thinks that einsatzgruppen member Paul Blobel (supposedly in charge of the non-existent Babi Yar massacre) proved the 'holocaust' I invite her/he to read this thread, this post, and join in here.

It's revealing that German Field Marshal Erich von Mannstein, who commanded much of the Einsatzgruppen, whose purpose was to cover the backs of the German army by fighting illegal terrorist partisans, was acquitted in a case where the alleged 'documents' about the alleged numbers supposedly killed were proven to be unreliable.

And Laza thinks that magical Blobel could just make 1.5 million jew corpses disappear.

And Laza surely sees in the Babi Yar photos something no one else can see.

Blobel, who was supposedly the main SS officer in all these alleged mass shootings into the non-existent pits. Blobel is said to have been responsible for digging up the remains and cremating them in order to hide the crimes for which Believers claim the Germans invited the public to witness. Typical 'holocaust' logic in place again. Blobel, while in captivity got in a real zinger:

Owing to the approach of the front, it was not possible to destroy the mass graves further to the south and the east, resulting from the executions of the Einsatzgruppen.

So this contradicts the storyline which says Blobel obliterated the mass graves (which would not be possible anyway) and these non-hidden mass graves 'in the south & east' which were supposedly witnessed should be available for excavation. But the Jewish supremacists don't dare excavate.
Again, the purveyors of the 'holocaust' nonsense have painted themselves into a corner and their only way out is to make scrutiny of the absurd and impossible story line illegal.

- And since It's commonly stated that a total of 2,000,000 Jews were supposedly shot into massive pits by the Einsatzgruppen, is that:

- 100 graves of 20,000?
- 200 graves of 10,000?
- 400 graves of 5,000?
- 500 graves of 4,000?
- 1000 graves of 2000?
- 2000 graves of 1000?

Here is the false info. on SS Blobel, who hiliariously is said to have made crematory ovens from Jewish tombstones:

http://www.zchor.org/BABIYAR.HTM

"Starting August 18th 1943, the Germans headed by Blobel erased traces by removing the corpses and burnt them in furnaces made of the tombstones of the nearby Jewish cemetery. For 6 weeks a group of chained prisoners, Jews and Soviet prisoners of war, doomed to death as well, was forced to perform the operation."

- St. George, J. The Road to Babi Yar, London, 1967

Now that's a good laugh.

- Hannover

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jewish supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that crushes the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.
The tide is turning.

[LazaB]

According to Sonderkommando survivor Vladimir Davydov, on September 25-26, incineration action had been almost finished. The last phase of this action consisted of brushing things up - dismantling camouflage, leveling earth, building one last pyre. SKs guessed that this pyre was for themselves; and probably they were correct. In any case, Sonderkommandos revolted on September 29, 1943 (exactly two years since the beginning of the massacre) and several of them managed to escape.

So, the photo was taken during the final phase, several days before the escape, and basically, this means that it is not necessary that we should see any plumes of smoke on the photos. We may find something, but then again, we may not. Both outcomes are compatible with proven history.

Are traces of activity associated with mass incineration (scarring/disturbance of earth nearby and inside the ravine) visible on the photo? It's up to the experts to decide, but it seems that to this date these photos haven't been seriously analyzed by any aerial photography experts.
My admittedly amateurish interpretation is that a large part of the ravine is covered by shadow, so it's entirely possible that we simply can't see some interesting things that were happening at that moment. It's hard for me to tell whether there is any "scarring" from cars, etc., anywhere on the photo, but you surely haven't proven that there isn't any, or, if it is indeed not visible on the aerial photo