Rather Interesting - delousing tunnels

[semblance7]

Would one of you gentlemen translate this for me please? - This is from a site that is pretty over the top, and yet point well taken, if the Germans had wished to industrialize the process this would have been a far more efficient method. (appears to be mobile delousing trains)




Regards

Semblance7

[Hotzenplotz]

The picture to the left says:

"Circulation and ventilation facility of a 400cbm railway disinfestation chamber."

to the right:

"View of a railway gas chamber of the state-owned railways in Budapest. (At the far end the machine room with circulation and ventilation facility.)"

below:
"G. Peters, journal for varmint research 8(1938)."

The translation perhaps sounds funny, but I hope you'll get what is meant.
What's the source?

[Richard Perle]

appears to be mobile delousing trains

Not exactly. Delousing tunnels for delousing train carriages.

One of the main reasons I lost faith in the holocaust was seeing the kind of technology that was available to the Germans and how it wasn't used in their alleged mass killing programme. Believers would have it that the Nazis were bent on wiping out every last Jew; and revisionists conclude from the evidence that deporting Jews from Europe was an issue of major importance to the Nazis.
With this in mind, how are we to accept that the industrial slaughter of Jews was carried out without the Zyklon B heating and circulation technology that was in use for disinfestation purposes in the same camps that are supposed to have had homicidal gas chambers?
Revisionists have written about the great amount of money spend on fighting disease within the camp system, so why does it appear that the Nazis - who it is universally agreed placed great importance on the Final Solution - were shy of spending money to create an efficient method of mass murder?

Bodies heating rooms, zyklon B pellets dropped on heads or lowered in baskets, doors left open for hours to ventilate chambers. These are all absurdities that Germany had the technology and sense to avoid.

You don't need a thorough understanding of the science involved to see that the gas chambers we are forced to accept don't fit with the standard of technology that the Germans had at the time.

[Nick Danger]

If the Germans did have a plan of extermination, they would have done in the most efficient way possible.

The delousing tunnels would have worked well especially if they used coal cars [bottom opens and contents slide down chute.] The train would pull up next to quarry and bodies slide out. Frontend loaders would dump dirt onto
fresh batch. Next train.
Not too efficient, or cheap.

My opinion is that if there was a plan to exterminate Jews, it would have been done in place. Since Jews have always been a small minority, the townfolks or villagers would be left to give the bodies a rightful burial.

[Carto's Cutlass Supreme]

Richard Perle wrote

so why does it appear that the Nazis - who it is universally agreed placed great importance on the Final Solution - were shy of spending money to create an efficient method of mass murder? .........

These are all absurdities that Germany had the technology and sense to avoid.

How about looking for a used "bone crushing machine" in the Jewish ghetto. Taken from Destruction of the European Jews. Raul Hilberg. 1985 pg. 977


I mean they're looking for a used bone crusher in the Jewish ghetto! Who keeps the receipt is the least of my concerns!

[semblance7]

Thanks for the translation, Hotzenplotz. Kinda telling isn't it?

I'd rather not forward the site that it came from. It was pretty vile. So can't speak to the veracity of the pictures. It just caught my eye and thought it might make an interesting post.

Regards

[Richard Perle]

The pictures are legit. Go here for more on the delousing tunnels including the above picture and more.

http://www.vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/7/1/Berg73-94.html

[Hotzenplotz]

http://www.vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/7/1/Berg73-94.html

The caption of this picture from the article Richard cited is also interesting:


It says: "vacuum disinfestation chamber - infested wagons are being driven inside"

So there actually were vacuum chambers. Perhaps they were the origin of the homicidal vacuum chamber stories, as well as of the mobile homicidal gas chambers.

[Richard Perle]

Perhaps they were the origin of the homicidal vacuum chamber stories, as well as of the mobile homicidal gas chambers.

These things are about as large and immobile as gas chambers got. I believe the Germans actually did have mobile, van-based delousing equipment.

[Hotzenplotz]

These things are about as large and immobile as gas chambers got. I believe the Germans actually did have mobile, van-based delousing equipment.

Yes, it seems they did.

Also, this passage from the above quoted article by Berg is worth to be reproduced here:

"Larger chambers for fumigating entire railroad trains existed throughout German-occupied Europe in about a dozen different locations including Cologne, Poznan (Posen), Potsdam, and Budapest.[20] They had become a standard feature of the railroad network in order to prevent the spread of typhus, particularly from Eastern Europe, where typhus had always been endemic."

As he correctly notes, mass extermination would have been tremendously easier using gas chambers for whole trains. No need for camps at all.

[comrade seinfeld]

Would one of you gentlemen translate this for me please? - This is from a site that is pretty over the top, and yet point well taken, if the Germans had wished to industrialize the process this would have been a far more efficient method. (appears to be mobile delousing trains)




Regards

Semblance7

I would think that common sense would rule out such a notion, concerning a means of extermination. For instance, how would it have been possible to separate out all those Jews capable of being utilised as slave labourer, especially if they realised what was going to happen to the rest of their families, which would be impossible to conceal from the general public, especially since it would involve the railway workers?

Also, the guards would have to leave the train, and so the Jews, probably being aware of what was going to happen, would set about systematically destroying the train in order to escape, or when they realised they were being gassed -- and think of the expensive nature of such trains if they were to withstand such vandalism. Moreover, when the Jews were shipped out this had to be done as family groups, and there probably would have been violent resistance if there was any attempt to separate families.

Then are many other objections that I think could be thought about (I hope that I am not criticized for being so negative!), but I haven't got time now -- this subject has been dealt with before, so it would be a good idea to search the archives. The main thing, however, is that the supposed Nazi extermination program relied on surprise, or unawareness, and I would think it obvious that such a method entailing the complete gassing of a whole train would be very impracticable in this regard.

[Ratatosk]

I would think that common sense would rule out such a notion, concerning a means of extermination. For instance, how would it have been possible to separate out all those Jews capable of being utilised as slave labourer, especially if they realised what was going to happen to the rest of their families, which would be impossible to conceal from the general public, especially since it would involve the railway workers?

Are there anything in this argumentation that is not applicable on the Auschwitz situation? And for the Auschwitz situation we are assumed to believe that the relatives happily went on to the daily work every day(the combined work/extermination camp notion, what a silly idea!)

From a strictly technical point of view, the "delousing train" method, would have worked much better.

[Richard Perle]

I disagree also. A selection process could take place anywhere, with those able to work sent off to labour camps and the rest told they are going to another camp or settlement. To any observers only a separating of workers has taken place. The unfit people are then packed into cattle cars like we are told they were and off goes the train, but soon it pulls into this tunnel and the guards and driver quickly exit. The doors are closed and in goes the gas. This seems far more logical to me than going to the trouble of transporting the unfit to camps only to gas them on arrival. In at least one instance we are told that the SS actually payed money for Jews as labour only to gas the majority of them when they arrived at the camp.