see this:
http://www.air-photo.com/grap/aus_smoke.jpg
see this:
http://www.air-photo.com/grap/aus_nsmoke.jpg
now go here:
http://www.air-photo.com/english/1999_mark.html
Once you lie, you must continue to lie.
- Hannover
a Picture = 1000 Words
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Hello All,
Two questions:
1) I'm sure the Simon Wiesenthal Center was informed of this 'mistake'.
What explanation did they give, if any? I can't wait to see that one!
2) Concerning the photos released by the CIA in '78, I recall Elie Wiesel screaming that the US, therefore, knew about what was going on at Auschwitz. (Implicitly stating that there is/was evidence of gassings on the photos.).
Now, what exactly do the Holocaust Hucksters claim to be on the photos that support the gassings (or mass extermination) claim?
Steve
Two questions:
1) I'm sure the Simon Wiesenthal Center was informed of this 'mistake'.
What explanation did they give, if any? I can't wait to see that one!
2) Concerning the photos released by the CIA in '78, I recall Elie Wiesel screaming that the US, therefore, knew about what was going on at Auschwitz. (Implicitly stating that there is/was evidence of gassings on the photos.).
Now, what exactly do the Holocaust Hucksters claim to be on the photos that support the gassings (or mass extermination) claim?
Steve
1)
As to my knowledge, they didn't state anything, the just removed the photo and then added the text "Photo Not Available."
To put it simpler, they put the lid on.
http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/gallery/pg2 ... 22035.html
2)
A good starting point is http://www.air-photo.com/english/conclusion.html I'll have seen some links before from Hannover on this topic. Maybe he can post them again.
As to my knowledge, they didn't state anything, the just removed the photo and then added the text "Photo Not Available."
To put it simpler, they put the lid on.
http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/gallery/pg2 ... 22035.html
2)
A good starting point is http://www.air-photo.com/english/conclusion.html I'll have seen some links before from Hannover on this topic. Maybe he can post them again.
"Now, what exactly do the Holocaust Hucksters claim to be on the photos that support the gassings (or mass extermination) claim?"
They say
- four big crematoria indicating massive overcapacity for "normal" use
- crematoria camouflaged by screens
- location of gas insertion on the roof
- path the SS men were going to operate the gas-chamber on this roof
- open air burning
- trenches for ash
- mass graves
- provisional gas-chamber outside Birkenau next to mass graves/burning pits
They say
- four big crematoria indicating massive overcapacity for "normal" use
- crematoria camouflaged by screens
- location of gas insertion on the roof
- path the SS men were going to operate the gas-chamber on this roof
- open air burning
- trenches for ash
- mass graves
- provisional gas-chamber outside Birkenau next to mass graves/burning pits
Max said:
response:
** Not true and the numbers of people there combined with the huge typhus epidemics supported the need for the crematoria....which were technically incapable of cremating the numbers that are absurdly alleged, see other posts/threads here about specifics (amounts alleged, times, fuel, etc.)
..Please demonstrate how a human corpse can be cremated in a coke fired oven in 4-7 minutes as alleged.
..Please show us how these crematorium were capable of cremating 10,000-12,000 per day as the "testimony" states.
..Please show us the massive human remains that would necessarily exist.
..Please show us photos of the crematorium belching smoke & fire round the clock as is alleged.
..Please show us the enormous pile of fuel that would have been necessary.
** Please show us the "camouflage".
** Please show us the "gas insertion" on the roof.
** So, the curious marks on the pictures were 'paths' for SS men? Then where are the alleged insertion holes in the pictures? Other believers state that those scribbly marks that you call 'paths' WERE the phantom 'insertion' holes. You can't have it both ways.
Since this thread is about the phoney Wiesenthal Center photo (of which there are many). I suggest a separate thread per item if you truly want to debate. In fact, I challenge you to debate each point in a separate thread. Our readers await, your move.
Hannover
They say
- four big crematoria indicating massive overcapacity for "normal" use
- crematoria camouflaged by screens
- location of gas insertion on the roof
- path the SS men were going to operate the gas-chamber on this roof
response:
** Not true and the numbers of people there combined with the huge typhus epidemics supported the need for the crematoria....which were technically incapable of cremating the numbers that are absurdly alleged, see other posts/threads here about specifics (amounts alleged, times, fuel, etc.)
..Please demonstrate how a human corpse can be cremated in a coke fired oven in 4-7 minutes as alleged.
..Please show us how these crematorium were capable of cremating 10,000-12,000 per day as the "testimony" states.
..Please show us the massive human remains that would necessarily exist.
..Please show us photos of the crematorium belching smoke & fire round the clock as is alleged.
..Please show us the enormous pile of fuel that would have been necessary.
** Please show us the "camouflage".
** Please show us the "gas insertion" on the roof.
** So, the curious marks on the pictures were 'paths' for SS men? Then where are the alleged insertion holes in the pictures? Other believers state that those scribbly marks that you call 'paths' WERE the phantom 'insertion' holes. You can't have it both ways.
Since this thread is about the phoney Wiesenthal Center photo (of which there are many). I suggest a separate thread per item if you truly want to debate. In fact, I challenge you to debate each point in a separate thread. Our readers await, your move.
Hannover
Well Max, you stated your beliefs and I challenged them, you failed to respond to my challenge. Why would you post such things if you can't defend your position?
I'm quite confident in my position, you seem to be wavering in yours; which presents hope that you may recognize your undefendable position.
Specifics Max, not recititation of impossible & hateful allegations.
Again, support your statements or admit that you cannot. What are you afraid of?
- Hannover
I'm quite confident in my position, you seem to be wavering in yours; which presents hope that you may recognize your undefendable position.
Specifics Max, not recititation of impossible & hateful allegations.
Again, support your statements or admit that you cannot. What are you afraid of?
- Hannover
First,
Thanks for the replies.
I'll be honest here. I am not clever enough to feel conclusively that the photos (CIA) were altered. (On the strength of the arguements given, I mean.) I do believe, however, the original photos would show no eveidence of gassings (simply because I no longer believe such a thing took place.) But, I like to back up my assertions not by what the revisionists say, but, on what the Hoaxers themselves say. (eg, Elie Wiesel saying people walked into blazing fires(!)).
And, as evidence that the CIA photos were indeed altered, simply look at the Simon Wiesenthal example (the one given to start this thread.) (Meaning, the H Industry is not exactly upfront.)
Now, this is yet one more reason why, if the Holocausters REALLY wanted to prove their case, a public debate should take place. (Which, of course, will never happen.)
You can't give as an excuse, for refusing to debate, that the revisionists are Elvis watchers. After all, even the most faithful, unless he was either blinded or lying, must admit, as a minimum, the revisionists arguements are indeed complelling.
Now, "four big crematoria indicating massive overcapacity for "normal" use "
That may have merit only if a crematorium was indeed capable of cremating a body as quickly as the Hoaxers claim. And, by the way, as for cremation times, if one could cremate a body that quickly, I'm sure someone would have demonstrated that fact by now. Surely, in the whole world, there is an oven that is as capable of the ones used in the camps 60 years ago!
As for the other points, again, as an example, a path for SS Guards?? Just how would one come to that conclusion?
Oh well, I was just wondering if the CIA photos, and/or their use as evidence, was as BLATANTLY fraudulent as the Simon Wiesenthal doctored photo.
Steve
Thanks for the replies.
I'll be honest here. I am not clever enough to feel conclusively that the photos (CIA) were altered. (On the strength of the arguements given, I mean.) I do believe, however, the original photos would show no eveidence of gassings (simply because I no longer believe such a thing took place.) But, I like to back up my assertions not by what the revisionists say, but, on what the Hoaxers themselves say. (eg, Elie Wiesel saying people walked into blazing fires(!)).
And, as evidence that the CIA photos were indeed altered, simply look at the Simon Wiesenthal example (the one given to start this thread.) (Meaning, the H Industry is not exactly upfront.)
Now, this is yet one more reason why, if the Holocausters REALLY wanted to prove their case, a public debate should take place. (Which, of course, will never happen.)
You can't give as an excuse, for refusing to debate, that the revisionists are Elvis watchers. After all, even the most faithful, unless he was either blinded or lying, must admit, as a minimum, the revisionists arguements are indeed complelling.
Now, "four big crematoria indicating massive overcapacity for "normal" use "
That may have merit only if a crematorium was indeed capable of cremating a body as quickly as the Hoaxers claim. And, by the way, as for cremation times, if one could cremate a body that quickly, I'm sure someone would have demonstrated that fact by now. Surely, in the whole world, there is an oven that is as capable of the ones used in the camps 60 years ago!
As for the other points, again, as an example, a path for SS Guards?? Just how would one come to that conclusion?
Oh well, I was just wondering if the CIA photos, and/or their use as evidence, was as BLATANTLY fraudulent as the Simon Wiesenthal doctored photo.
Steve
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steve wrote:Hello All,
Two questions:
1) I'm sure the Simon Wiesenthal Center was informed of this 'mistake'.
What explanation did they give, if any? I can't wait to see that one!
IIRC, Roberto on the Third Reich Forum e-mailed SWC and they said that some intern interpreted some smudges on the negative as smoke, and thinking smoke should be there, airbrushed in the "smoking fenceposts."
steve wrote:I do believe, however, the original photos would show no eveidence of gassings (simply because I no longer believe such a thing took place.)
So you dismiss a whole class of evidence, simply because of your belief. I disagree with that approach.
"Now, 'four big crematoria indicating massive overcapacity for "normal" use '
That may have merit only if a crematorium was indeed capable of cremating a body as quickly as the Hoaxers claim."
No, even a cremation capacity of few hundreds is already overcapacity.
"As for the other points, again, as an example, a path for SS Guards?? Just how would one come to that conclusion?"
This follows from a photographic expert report that was once quoted in the (now closed) CODOH board.
"So you dismiss a whole class of evidence, simply because of your belief. I disagree with that approach."
My 'belief' comes from years of experience into this topic.
I reject the H story specifically from what the Holocaust Hucksters have to say.
The story itself sounds hard to believe. Ie. The Nazis were transporting Jews all over Europe, taking them to get gassed. Combine that with all sorts of tales that simply cannot be true. (Cremation rates, lack of physical evidence, outrageous 'eyewitness' testimony, pedal driven brain bashing machine, the cage with the eagle and the bear, different colored smoke for different nationalities, 20,000 Jews evaporated with an atmoic device, light switches made from Jews' thumbs, Geisers of blood, Jews steamed like lobsters, etc, etc, etc,)
For the above, and millions of other reasons, I'm convinced the thing is a big lie. So, if someone claimed there were photos proving gassings, of course I would assume it was a fraud. Similar to a photo 'proving' alien abduction. This is not being unreasonable. However, if I saw concrete evidence, photo or otherwise, I would address it as such. However, I've yet to see any such 'evidence'. (A picture of a pile of shoes does not cut it.)
"No, even a cremation capacity of few hundreds is already overcapacity. "
Well, I believe many Holocausters have stated there were many 'natural' deaths at Auschwitz. (The death books show, for example, 76,000) If you consider 46 muffles, that's 1600 bodies per muffle.
spread that out over a few years, taking breakdowns, etc. into account, the 5 ovens (46 muffles) does not necessarily seem too many.
"This follows from a photographic expert report that was once quoted in the (now closed) CODOH board."
Again, neither I, nor you, are experts. Take any photograph taken from thousands of feet up. I'm sure an 'expert' can interpret the photo in many ways. That is why, if one was really serious in the matter, there would be a debate in the matter. But, WHO are the ones avoiding such a debate, the revisionists or the Hoaxers?
Steve
My 'belief' comes from years of experience into this topic.
I reject the H story specifically from what the Holocaust Hucksters have to say.
The story itself sounds hard to believe. Ie. The Nazis were transporting Jews all over Europe, taking them to get gassed. Combine that with all sorts of tales that simply cannot be true. (Cremation rates, lack of physical evidence, outrageous 'eyewitness' testimony, pedal driven brain bashing machine, the cage with the eagle and the bear, different colored smoke for different nationalities, 20,000 Jews evaporated with an atmoic device, light switches made from Jews' thumbs, Geisers of blood, Jews steamed like lobsters, etc, etc, etc,)
For the above, and millions of other reasons, I'm convinced the thing is a big lie. So, if someone claimed there were photos proving gassings, of course I would assume it was a fraud. Similar to a photo 'proving' alien abduction. This is not being unreasonable. However, if I saw concrete evidence, photo or otherwise, I would address it as such. However, I've yet to see any such 'evidence'. (A picture of a pile of shoes does not cut it.)
"No, even a cremation capacity of few hundreds is already overcapacity. "
Well, I believe many Holocausters have stated there were many 'natural' deaths at Auschwitz. (The death books show, for example, 76,000) If you consider 46 muffles, that's 1600 bodies per muffle.
spread that out over a few years, taking breakdowns, etc. into account, the 5 ovens (46 muffles) does not necessarily seem too many.
"This follows from a photographic expert report that was once quoted in the (now closed) CODOH board."
Again, neither I, nor you, are experts. Take any photograph taken from thousands of feet up. I'm sure an 'expert' can interpret the photo in many ways. That is why, if one was really serious in the matter, there would be a debate in the matter. But, WHO are the ones avoiding such a debate, the revisionists or the Hoaxers?
Steve
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