Thomas Toivi Blatt and his book

[Laurentz Dahl]

Blatt has his own website, http://www.sobibor.info/

Most of the info here can be found on the deathcamps.org site, but there are some photos of Reinhardt personnel and from the Sobibor trial worth a look.

This tasteful and informative site even displays a graphic photograph of the suicided Gustaw Wagner.

I will return to this eletronic swill later on.

PS. Take a look at the "More documents" page. No need to reproduce any contemporary documents, or Blatt's own earlier witness depositions, or any Polish-Soviet reports etc. Just a photo of a plaque and two letters from Polish prime ministers. Blatt is/was "Chairman of the Holocaust Sites Preservation Committee"...

[Laurentz Dahl]

Here's the account of the Frenzel interview on Blatt's site:

http://www.sobibor.info/confrontation.html

Karl Frenzel, one of the leading Nazis in Sobibor, was sentenced to life in prison. After serving sixteen and a half years, he was released on appeal due to a technicality. In July, l984 the court in Hagen rejected a defense motion to stop the trial on the grounds that Frenzel was suffering from heart problems. After a stringent medical examination it was ruled that he was fit to be retried.

In l984, I was granted a three hour face-to-face taped interview with the former SS Frenzel, the man who forty years earlier had selected him to live and work at Sobibor and sent his whole family to the gas chambers. The following are selections from the author's article.

I knew why I wanted to talk to him. As a man who has dedicated his life to the remembrance of Sobibor and as a serious researcher of Sobibor, I felt there were still some unanswered questions and gaps. As a former senior staff member of a death camp, one of the few still living, he could give me some technical and other important information and facts about the camp and the revolt known only by the SS. I could get the German view of events and solve some puzzling aspects of the camp. But why did he want to talk to me? I asked him outright why he agreed to speak to me. He said he wanted to apologize to me in person. He couldn't do it in the courtroom. "I don't blame you or other witnesses," he said. "And I must honestly say I was sorry for you and all those witnesses... After all those years to have to think back on all those memories and be pressured... they were pressuring and squeezing you in the court...".

Mr. Blatt, if You read this thread, would You do us the favor of joining the forum and participating in the discussion? Best regards.

[Laurentz Dahl]

More on Blatt's online account of the interview:

This was putting it mildly. The method of the defense was primarily to discredit the testimony of the witnesses by asking them idiotic questions. In my case for example, "How tall was the tree near the barrack?" or " Was the club with which Frenzel beat your father round or not? How many centimeters?" A stranger in the courtroom would immediately have thought I was the defendant and not the victim.

It would be interesting to read an actual transcript of the going-ons at the Sobibor trial, and to see if the questions of the defense was really "idiotic" or not. Most likely, those transcripts are not to be found in any library.

In l962, he was arrested at his job in Frankfurt where he worked as a stage lighting technician. On his break police officers interrupted his beer drinking and asked him if his name was Frenzel and was he ever in Sobibor? He admitted he was.

Was he living under his real name? Why readily admit that you worked in an alleged "extermination camp". Could it be that Frenzel was unaware of the allegations about the camp at the time he was arrested?

We went on. "Frenzel, how many Jews were gassed at Sobibor? They say over half a million. Is that accurate?" He replied, "No. I think no more than l60,000, but the railroad documents show 250,000 and many were brought by trucks, carriages and by foot."

The figures mentioned in Blatt's question to Frenzel above do not appear at all in From the Ashes in Sobibor. In the obviously edited version of the interview included as an appendix to that book, this question and Frenzel's answer to it is not present. Note that the Hagen Sobibor Trial in 1964 had concluded that the number of victims were "at least" 150 000.

Frenzel was sent to Sobibor from Hadamar, a sanitarium where mentally ill Germans were gassed in the course of the euthanasia program. I mentioned Hadamar and asked how he felt killing Germans. His voice became angry. The tape ran out and so as not to jeopardize the interview, I did not insist on an answer.

So, Blatt has a tape of the interview, or at least the first part of it. He also has a web site. Why don't he have an audio file made out of the tape and put it up on his site?

I had more technical questions. Many escapees unwittingly found themselves back near the camp, having run around in circles in the forest. I wanted to know how many were caught. His face lit up. A chance to show his expertise. "Yes, about forty-five and with the 150 Jews remaining in camp, about l95. Then I had the operation (searchin camp) stopped. About seventy were killed in the revolt and in the mine fields surrounding the camp." Then, as an afterthought, looking away he added in a matter-of-fact tone, " I'm happy for every Jew who survived." I didn't comment on this irony.

This is not in the FTAOS version of the interview, maybe due to the "ironic" remark from Frenzel.

"You know," I said, "Every year I travel to Sobibor. You can still find today, if you just scrape the earth, burnt bones and hair that had been cut from the women before going to the gas chambers." I wasn't really expecting a response to this and I received none. I think I said it simply because each year as I bend down and pick up a piece of bone, I feel a sense of awe. I pay my respect to those who died. Their bones do not let me forget. They seem to be crying out for justice. And there has been little justice in the finding and prosecuting of Nazi criminals. At least their deaths as Jews should not be denied! (I had in mind the sign at the entrance to Sobibor).

Human hair surviving for forty years in the soil of a swampy area? Burnt bones just beneath the surface? Why hasn't Sobibor been properly excavated, and the amount of human ash and bones measured? Why hasn't those mass graves been shown to the public and documented, in contrast to for example the Katyn mass graves?

I was surprised at his strong reaction. I wanted it verified. It was so important. "Only Jews were destroyed in Sobibor, Frenzel?" "Only Jews, only Jews", he answered. I made sure I got it on tape. I could use this verification from a leading Sobibor Nazi to show the responsible officials in Communist Poland their manipulation of the truth.

OK, so Blatt has the rest of interview on tape too. Why doesn't he make it publicly available?

We were quiet for a moment. Then in a confidential tone, as if between friends, quietly and hesitantly and I believe sincerely, he began, "Herr Blatt, you know, when I see on television and read about Israel, I ask myself how could so many (go to their deaths)...When I see in Israel, proof of their courage, I can't understand how this could happen here...I just can't grasp it."

This rather seems like the ramblings of a devote zionist, lets say Blatt.

So, repentant as he claims to be, he will not speak out. He is now a free man living at home (under the pretense of illness), even though his appeal was lost on September 12, l985 and he was given a life sentence once more.

Well, if Frenzel is still alive he would be 97 years old today, so I don't think he is prentending to be ill...

I had gained some pertinent information, but was emotionally shattered. I paid a price. I felt and still feel, a sense of guilt and betrayal for doing the interview. My only consolation is the hope that my published work will give some insight, especially to the younger generation, into how and why such an evil was possible and to the depths that hatred and bigotry can lead us.

Poor poor Mr. Blatt, chosenite apostle to humanity...

[Laurentz Dahl]

Blatt has an interview with Alexander "Sasha" Pechersky dating from 1980 on his website.

http://www.sobibor.info/hero.html

Toivi: Were you aware of what happened in Sobibor?

Sasha: In the evening, the same day, I asked a another prisoner about the smog coming out from behind the fence in the opposite site of the camp. He looked at me and told me a matter of fact, the people you came with?, they are leaving Sobibor in the smoke. From him I learned the truth about the death factory, but working in the forest I was removed from direct witnessing of the murder, until... (and here his voice breaks down and tears rolled down his cheeks, the same thing happened a few years later when we meet in Moscow) working in the forest I heard amidst noises a laud cry of a child "Mama" coming from behind a hilltop. I realized that I was working near the gas chambers. I was thinking about my Elotchka, my daughter I left in a village in the Ukraine.

So Pechersky in fact did not "directly witness" any gas chamber murders. Yet, in his earlier witness testimony he was, as is well known, not adverse to reporting rumors of collapsible gas chamber floors and execution through means of spirally black liquid.

Toivi: You were a leader of the most successful Nazi prisoner revolt during World War II. Many people own their lives to you. Did you receive any recognition for your deeds?
(Note) At this point he stood up and went to the door leading to the hallway, opened, checked outside and returned without a word. Living myself for a long time under the Communist rule in Poland, I understand his precaution even as he told me that his neighbor across the hallway is a longtime friend, a woman doctor, living in the same household for over twenty years.

Sasha: Yes, after the war, I received an award, he whispered sarcastically, I was thrown into prison for many years. I was considered a traitor because I surrounded to the Germans, even as a wounded solder. After people from abroad kept inquiring about me, I was finally released but, my brother who had been arrested with me, succumbed to a diabetic coma while in prison. I was allowed again to work with the youth on a lover level in the cultural activities. I even was asked and did talk about my experiences in schools, but as far as an official acknowledgment and medal, no such thing for a Jew.

However, Sascha was indeed recognized as an important witness to "Hitlerite crimes" by Soviet courts, Blatt writes on his site (http://www.sobibor.info/murderers.html):

Some guards were tried in the Soviet Union: B. Bielakow, M. Matwiejenko, J. Nikifor, W. Podienka, F. Tichonowski and J. Zajcew were found guilty and executed for their part in the Sobibor crimes. In April, l963 at a court in Kiev where Sasha Pechersky was the chief prosecution witness, ten former Ukrainian guards were found guilty and executed and one was sentenced to fifteen years imprisonment. In a third trial in Kiev held in June, 1965 another three former Ukrainian guards of Belzec and Sobibor were sentenced to death.

Toivi: Sasha, when historians are writing the history of Sobibor, you as the leader of the revolt are quoted as the fundamental source. Sobibor had a small community of prisoners and in most cases they know each other. In your writing, I found unknown names of kapos and for that matter, a commandant of Sobibor called Berg when in actuality the name of the commander was Reichleitner. Is there any reason for these discrepancies?

Sasha: When I was aware in full, of the of the terrible Sobibor purpose, my mind was occupied first of all to find a way to get out, to stop the working of this machinery. The names of the prisoners and the Sobibor functionaries were of second importance and to be truthful, besides my closest friends from Minsk, I did not remember a single other name. In order to finish my memos I write down some fictional names. But this doesn't change the truth about Sobibor.

Certainly, there are no more "discrepancies" with reality other than names in Pechersky's witness account?

[Laurentz Dahl]

I wrote earlier mentioning a photo of the "suicided Gustav Wagner". However, I recently read claims that he was in fact killed:

For a time, the acting commandant of Sobibor was Gustav Franz Wagner. Some years after the war, he was found living in Brazil and was put on trial there. Jewish witnesses testified in court that he was responsible for 150,000 deaths and took special delight in brutally killing women and children. Wagner, however, swore that Sobibor had been a "model" work camp, not an extermination center. The Brazilian court rejected the prosecution's case and decided to neither convict nor extradite him. Wagner was released in 1979, but was found dead a short time later at his farm, knifed in the chest.

http://www.vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/8/2/ ... ml#ftnref2

But torture is not the only way history can be distorted. Many journalists and other writers simply pretend that the accused has made statements which they never in fact made! To give one example, the general public believes that Sergeant Franz Gustav Wagner has cynically declared at Sao Paulo: "At Sobibor we used to gas thousands of people, and this did not disturb me in the least: it was my job." However, a paper, like Le Monde, which is sometimes well-informed, has revealed that in fact Wagner had declared he had never taken part in any assassination of Jews or any other inmate, but that he was only doing his job. As you see, some journalists have decided that "his job" was killing people.

The line about Wagner being knifed in the chest seems to match with the photo on
http://www.sobibor.info/murderers.html (scroll down to bottom third)

He does not seem to have cut his wrists. Who commits suicide by stabbing to the chest?

I have to look more into this. Maybe someone knows what was the official statement of the post-mortem analysis? Wikipedia claims that Wagner's attorney claimed that it was suicide, but no sources are given.

[Laurentz Dahl]

Blatt exposes himself as a lying zionist:

T.T.B.: Was Israel angeht: Es gab zwar keinen arabischen Staat dort, kein Königreich oder sonst etwas in Palästina. Und es gab geschichtlich eine starke jüdische Bindung an dieses Land. Aber Geschichte steht nicht still. Viele Araber haben eben in Palästina im Jahr 1948 gelebt. Man durfte ihnen nicht einfach ihr Land nehmen. Das hat auch niemand getan.

http://www.hagalil.com/archiv/2005/02/sobibor.htm

In short, Blatt claims that no land was stolen from the Palestines in 1948...

[Carto's Cutlass Supreme]

If there were say, 100 Jewish workers in the non-death part of the alleged death camp,

And transports coming in would have 2,000 people and all would be dead within an hour or so,

Then what are the chances that Blatt (one of the 30 Sobibor survivors) would have seen Frenzel beating his father, so that he could later testify against Frenzel?
-----------------
I read Blatt's interview with Frenzel, and at one point Frenzel mentions that his wife was raped by a Soviet soldier and contacted a disease from it (internal typhus he said) and died.

Can you imagine that? Your wife raped and ultimately killed from the rape.

But this is all about Blatt, so he just says "oh" and moves the interview to his own pain and suffering.

Getting people like Frenzel who were so beaten down from hardships and disappointments in life, are the types to just go along with the story and say "yes" to whatever.

[Laurentz Dahl]

I think we can guess what happened to Gustav Wagner:

On July 24, 1978, at a news conference in Paris following the indictment in Cologne of Kurt Lischka, Serge Klarsfeld stated: "We are not seeking vengeance. If that were our aim, it would have been easy for us to kill all the Nazi criminals we have tracked down." "And if the court in Cologne refuses to try Lischka?," someone asked. Klarsfeld replied: "That in a way would be signing his death sentence" (Le Monde, July 26, 1978, p. 4). In 1982 the Klarsfelds engaged the services of a hired assassin, a Bolivian socialist of Indian origin named Juan Carlos, to assassinate Klaus Barbie (Life, Feb. 1985, p. 65), but the operation did not succeed.

During a 1986 interview with the Chicago Tribune (June 29, 1986), Beate Klarsfeld told "how she haunted at least three former Nazis until they committed suicide or died; how she organized attempts to kidnap others; how she used headline-making gimmicks to bring to trial or to ruin the careers of many who were convinced the world had forgotten them." She related how she slapped the face of German Chancellor Kurt-Georg Kiesinger in public in 1968. "Once, she and several friends tried to kidnap Kurt Lischka" but the operation failed because the car they were using had only two doors. As for Ernst Ehlers, "harassed by Klarsfeld-organized demonstrations outside his home, he first resigned his position [as judge] and then committed suicide."

After picking up the trail of Walter Rauff in Chile, the Klarsfelds organized demonstrations in front of his house and broke his windows. "He died a couple of months later," Beate Klarsfeld told the American daily. "I was glad, because as long as these people are alive, they are an offense to their victims." "My husband and I are not fanatics ... Once my husband held a pistol to the temple of Rauff, just to show that we could kill him, but he didn't pull the trigger."

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n2p-2_Faurisson.html

Those sick Jewish gangsters and their ilk are more than likely behind the "suicides" of a number of Germans. It is telling that they are also part of the posh anti-revisionist establishment. Their Klarsfeld Foundation funded the research of J-C Pressac until the man grew too openly heretic.

[Carto's Cutlass Supreme]

Wow. I never knew quite what the Klarsfelds were like.

If someone has come into revisionism in recent years, like me (I wasn't even a revisionist until 4 years ago) then it's amazing to hear that Pressac used to be associated with the Klarsfelds.

For people who have been revisionists for a long time, it must have been amazing to follow the Pressac saga.

[The Merovingian]

Wow. I never knew quite what the Klarsfelds were like.

So let me introduce you to the son, who performed a military period in Israel, holds dual citizenship (at least), and is the special adviser of our Minister of the Interior Nicolas Sarkozy de Nagy-Bocsa. Here on TV, he throws water at Robert Ménard, a radical leftist who criticized the ban of the Lebanese SAT Channel Al-Manar.

http://www.dailymotion.com/visited/sear ... ert-menard

The parents tend to avoid their display of this behavior on TV, though.

[Laurentz Dahl]

Thanks for the link Merovingian.
What a smirking chosenite jerk.

Those people are scum, pure and simple. No need to shy from those words. To think that those people are given screen time, while Faurisson is not even allowed to speak freely for one minute on TV to defend himself. The Klarsfeld Klan should be given one-way tickets to their beloved Israel.

The Klarsfeld really deserves their own thread. Since the last four posts including this one goes pretty OT maybe they could be made into a separate thread. I guess there is a lot more to dig up on those people.

[Laurentz Dahl]

According to Sergey Romanov (a clone of Mathis?) the Frenzel testimony (not even available in full - remember, we have only the final judgements abvailable and pre-trial interrogation protocols are locked up at Ludwigsburg) and interview constitutes proof of gassings at Sobibor:

Frenzel's testimony is unimpeachable evidence.

He gave enough details - they gassed Jews in the gas chambers. Testimony is not supposed to be necessarily detailed to be considered strong evidence.

Since no reason for dismissing his testimony has been given, it stands

The man is either a complete dimwit or a professional liar.

I strongly suspect the latter.

[PotPie]

What of the pits?