Auschwitz I chimney on Holocaust Memorial Day

[Reinhard]

The above plan shows the entrance to the building center left, that goes to the descending path between the earthen sides. [...]
The picture on the Auschwitz State Museum Web Site shows that entrance to the left or top?? Either way, the chimney is not where it is shown on the plan.
http://www.auschwitz-muzeum.oswiecim.pl/html/eng/zwiedzanie/krematorium_1.html

The entrance in the plan on the left is on the photo on the right side (where the open door can be seen).
On the photo another entrance directly on the left side of the chimney can be seen, that corresponds to plan No. 1241 from 10 April 1942, which Mattogno shows in his article in "The Revisionist" No. 4/2004 (vol. 2, No. 4) pp. 411-419, which is available in pdf-format at:
http://vho.org/dl/ENG.html
This entrance led to the coke-room and was used for the supply of coke.

In fall 1944, the crematorium was converted into an air-raid shelter.
Therefore a third entrance was built in the former mortuary, leading to an air lock. This entrance is presented to the tourists today as the entrance to the gas-chambers, which the "victims" had to pass and is visible on the photo on the left side, between the trees.
This plan shows the building as an air-raid shelter and the air-lock (on the bottom on the right side):
http://vho.org/D/vuez/v2.html#v2_2
(Abbildung 2.4, No. 1 = air lock)

Abbildung 2.5 shows the building in the shape it is presented today with the entrance to the air-lock (No. 6) as alleged entrance to the "gas chamber".
This plan is also visible at:
http://www.vho.org/D/gzz/RudolfKIHEUTE.gif

So, the chimney indeed is where it is shown on the plans.

Why would you build a morgue, under-ground to keep it cool - and then stick in a couple of furnaces?

In the original plan of the crematorium (e.g. in the post by polardude), you can see that the partition wall between the furnace room and the mortuary was built using a double layer of brick divided by a layer of air for isolation. This partition wall was removed, when the conversion into an air-raid shelter was done and replaced by a massive brickwork wall.
The soil at the walls (see the photograph of the Auschwitz-Museum) had the same purpose (to keep the mortuary as cool as possible).

[Turpitz]

For me the decisive issue would be if an examination of the building showed that there were remains of the below floor structures that carried smoke to the main stack.

I agree totally Mr. Dude.

I also find it a near impossible thought, that not a single wartime photo of this disfigured edifice survives. This makes me believe that there is something to be hid.

So, Turpitz, what were the two one-meter chimneys for, if they were not furnace chimneys? Perhaps the boss had a little stove in his office.

Who knows! they could have served a multitude of purposes. My problem is not the possibility that a few small ovens existed, I mean so-what, the little town where I live has two crematoria alone. My problem lies in the issues concerning what these lying little meddlers have been up to in order to give this building a sinister purpose so as to try and fit in with their lies. But I have grave doubts about this chimney stack, I believe it is almost symbolic and has been erected to serve as an almost god-like shrine. In true Zionist tradition, it is has an almost perverted phallic nature.

So, if we can't be sure about the ovens, their faithful restoration, then we cannot be sure that they are in the correct position.

Once these scoundrels have been tampering, you cannot be sure of anything. Only physical inspection by someone who knows buildings and can spot alterations would show what the score was with this shambles.

Reinhard you innocently place great trust in these 'plans' and top revisionists are also guilty of placing too much trust in these weasels handouts as well. But before getting carried away you might like to ponder on why the floor plan on this page tells us the building was 36.57 metres, when in reality it was only 27.57!

Do Germans really make an error of 'nine metres' on simultaneous drawings?

These floor plans are 1:100 scale, the impact of this 'nine metre' error on the fitment/placement of those ovens, is very serious.

Why would anyone make a building 27.57 in lenght, why not 27.00 or even 27.50? Did the extra 7mil make all the difference?

[Hannover]

The diagram (below), while it matches the 'reconstructed chimney' location, makes no sense.

Why put a chimney where it is shown? The underground exhaust has to travel a much longer distance (note perforated lines), as opposed to placing the chimney directly next to the crematoria source.

This dog don't hunt.

- Hannover

[Reinhard]

Reinhard you innocently place great trust in these 'plans' and top revisionists are also guilty of placing too much trust in these weasels handouts as well. But before getting carried away you might like to ponder on why the floor plan on this page tells us the building was 36.57 metres, when in reality it was only 27.57!

Do Germans really make an error of 'nine metres' on simultaneous drawings?

These floor plans are 1:100 scale, the impact of this 'nine metre' error on the fitment/placement of those ovens, is very serious.

Why would anyone make a building 27.57 in lenght, why not 27.00 or even 27.50? Did the extra 7mil make all the difference?

Turpitz, I think you've made a very good point here. I have to confess, I didn't pay enough attention to the measurements. That's a very strange thing: If you look at the plan at:
http://www.vho.org/D/gzz/RudolfKIORIGI.gif
(That's the plan, Hannover has posted above), you will notice that the length of the building is given as 36,57 m (exactly as in the plan posted by polardude).
But if you take a ruler on the scale ("10 m"), and multiply it (x 3,657) it becomes obvious that it doesn't fit. It should be about 26 m. At first, I thought the scale is not correct (because it seems that it is no original part of the plan, but was added later on), but it fits perfectly with the width of the building (14,67 m). The same is the case with the plan at:
http://www.vho.org/D/gzz/RudolfKIHEUTE.gif
But there, the length of the building is given as 26,57 m. I thought at first, that might be a mistake (someone wrote "2" instead of "3"), but that's impossible, because, if you take again a ruler on the scale, it fits again with the width, but it can never fit with a length of 36,57 m (but it would with 26,57 m). That's a difference of 10 m, or 37,6 % !

As far as I know, these plans at first were published by Prof. Faurisson at the end of the 1970ies. Of course, Pressac made use of them in his book "Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers". I quoted them from Germar Rudolf (= "Ernst Gauss"). And Carlo Mattogno also has used them. And nobody seems to have spotted this strange thing - except you, Turpitz!
Does anybody have the e-mail-addresses of Prof. Faurisson and Carlo Mattogno, so that we can ask them, whether they are aware of this?

One little correction at the end: the difference between 27,50 m and 27,57 m are 7 cm (centimeters), not 7 mm (millimeters), but that's not important here.

[Hannover]

We have TWO versions of the alleged exhaust system, #1:

and #2:


So why does the 1st plan show only ONE crematory oven attached to the alleged exhaust system?

- Hannover

[polardude]

Hannover, according to Pressac the first plan was just showing the addition of an oven, therefore only 1 set of flues was shown. There a number of plans which show the chimney in that position, they look as genuine as all other Auschwitz plans. Which is not say the are genuine.

To pick up on the point of the two small (possible) chimneys or air-vents.

I am not sure exactly what people are referring to here. Is it the features on this magnified airphoto of December 1944 - ie well after the alleged crematorium was supposedly dismantled.



I have circled in yellow these two vents here



There seem to me to be two clear vents, light inlets or chimneys right in the middle of the "furnace" room. However they cannot belong to any of the plans of the furnace room or any of the ovens today configured as they are located roughly at the front of today's oven positions or where the rails are today (although there is type of mobile crematorium that did have a short metal chimney going up at the front, I can post a photograph if desired).

I wonder what the roof looks like at that area.

The purple oval is the bank on the side of Krema I. It clearly and obviously is unbroken - just like the bank on the other side today. Ie there was never a gap, as exists today, for a large chimney to be built. The gap in the bank which today contains a large chimney must have been built after the war.

This, to me, is more clear evidence that the Krema I plans are fabricated and there was never a large chimney in that position

[Kiwichap]

Hold on guys, go back a bit.

Reinhard said:

The entrance in the plan on the left is on the photo on the right side (where the open door can be seen).

Daivd Cole did not go through an open door. He walked between two earthern sides. Check it out. Google images shows a good pic: google 'Auschwitz gas chamber Exterior of Auschwitz I Gas Chamber.

That is not the right side of the Auschwitz Museum picture. The door Cole walked through was in a channel, you could not see it. The google image pic shows Cole entered from the left side. The chimney should be on the opposite side of the building, according to the plans.

Hey, they put the chimney on the wrong side of the building, thats why it's not connected.

Any under-ground ducts would go under the morgue. Have you ever heard of a morgue with underfloor heating?

[Reinhard]

Daivd Cole did not go through an open door. He walked between two earthern sides. Check it out. Google images shows a good pic: google 'Auschwitz gas chamber Exterior of Auschwitz I Gas Chamber.

That is not the right side of the Auschwitz Museum picture. The door Cole walked through was in a channel, you could not see it. The google image pic shows Cole entered from the left side.

If you click on the picture at the website of the Auschwitz-Museum, you get a larger version of the photograph with the following URL:
http://www.auschwitz-muzeum.oswiecim.pl/html/eng/zwiedzanie/foto/krematorium_1_foto_AuI_krematorium.html

On this picture you can see the channel between the earthern sides Cole walked through on the left side, between the trees.
So the chimney is indeed on the correct side of the building. He entered through the air-lock of the air-raid shelter (No. 1 [on the right side on the bottom] in the plan in "Abbildung 2.4" at: http://vho.org/D/vuez/v2.html
or No. 6 at: http://www.vho.org/D/gzz/RudolfKIHEUTE.gif )

[polardude]

Ahhh, so there are my two vents in the yellow circle



But that still leaves the long bank marked by the purple circle.

Was the bank on the "chimney" side totally earthed as on the other side at liberation as the air photo suggests?

That would strongly argue against a chimney ever existing.

[Kiwichap]

I am all too willing to believe I'm thick!

But Reinhard said:

http://www.auschwitz-muzeum.oswiecim.pl/html/eng/zwiedzanie/foto/krematorium_1_foto_AuI_krematorium.html
On this picture you can see the channel between the earthern sides Cole walked through on the left side, between the trees.

I think so too. So the chimney is to the right-side of the building, while the furnaces (according to the plan) are to the left-side of the building. Wasnt the ""gaschamber"" to the right? (I've never been there, just watched the pics)

[Kiwichap]

Ok, I get it, thanks to vho. Cole entered from the right-side of our plan. That puts everything in perspective. Ta.

[Reinhard]

Hannover, according to Pressac the first plan was just showing the addition of an oven, therefore only 1 set of flues was shown.

Carlo Mattogno refers in his investigation "The Crematoria Ovens of Auschwitz and Birkenau" (see at No. 4.1) to diagram "Topf [the company, which built the ovens] D 50042 of September 25, 1941:

The crematorium of Auschwitz was originally constructed in accordance with diagram "Topf D50042" of September 25, 1941, which had been drawn up for the construction of the third oven.[95]

Source: http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndcrema.html

This must be a mistake, because the plan of 25 September 1941 (polardude has posted it) has the No. D. 59042 (on the right side at the bottom of the diagram).
So, according to Mattogno, the second plan Hannover has posted above "had been drawn up for the construction of the third oven". But this diagram nevertheless shows all three crematory ovens connected to the chimney.

Do I understand correctly that Pressac claims, the first plan posted by Hannover was drawn for the addition of the third oven? Does he show this plan in his book and what plan-No. (D. 5....) and date does he mention?

[Kiwichap]

Except for one thing;

If you try to reconcile our plan (see Hannover above, door 6) with the VHO plan:
http://www.vho.org/D/gzz/RudolfKIHEUTE.gif, door 6.

They are a flipped mirror image.

Don't we generally rotate plans to make them fit.

Put me out of my misery. The door that David Cole entered the building, was it the centrally located door (#1 in the wall) or was it the 'off centered door' #6 in the wall, there being doors at either end.

[Reinhard]

But that still leaves the long bank marked by the purple circle.

Was the bank on the "chimney" side totally earthed as on the other side at liberation as the air photo suggests?

That would strongly argue against a chimney ever existing.

According to Carlo Mattogno, crematorium I went out of service on 19 July 1943, after crematorium II and III in Birkenau had been completed and been taken into service [http://www.vho.org/VffG/2000/1/Mattogno51-56.html]

The plan No. 4287 for conversion of crematorium I into an air-raid shelter for the SS-hospital was drafted an 21 September 1944 (Pressac, Auschwitz: Technique and Operation..., New York 1989, p. 156 - according to Mattogno in his article in The Revisionist 4/2004, pp. 411-419). On 17 October 1944 the immediate beginning of the construction was ordered by the "Construction Inspection of the Waffen-SS and Police Silesia" (Mattogno, up.cit.), because the US Air Force hat begun to attack Monowitz in September 1944.
Therefore, the chimney must have been dismantled between 19 July 1943 and the end of October 1944.
John C. Ball shows in his book Air Photo Evidence (pp. 34-36) an US Air Force photograph from 25 August 1944, on which the chimney seems to be visible and the bank on the chimney side seems to be interrupted. So, it seems that the chimney has been brought down in September or October 1944.
Do we have an expert here, who can tell us, whether the bank on the December 1944 photograph posted by polardude has been only recently filled up? For no vegetation would have been grown in October/November 1944, it should be clearly visible in December 1944 photos or at the arrival of the Red Army on 27 January 1945.
It is quite possible that the bank was filled up after the chimney had been dismantled in order to protect the air-raid shelter from bomb splinters.

Put me out of my misery. The door that David Cole entered the building, was it the centrally located door (#1 in the wall) or was it the 'off centered door' #6 in the wall, there being doors at either end.

No. 6 on the plan posted by Hannover marks the coke-storage room. There is no door on this side, but a window.
According to a plan (No. 1241 from 10 April 1942) shown by Mattogno in his up.cit. article in The Revisionist, there was a door from the coke-storage room to the chimney-side (visible directly on the left side of the chimney in the picture of the Auschwitz-Museum, where the pavement can be seen), where the trucks delivered the coke supply (if anybody does have the pdf-file of that issue (4/2004), we could post this plan as well).
So the door, which was used by Cole can not be seen on the plan posted by Hannover, because it didn't exist at the time the plan was drawn.
It can only be seen on the plan for the conversion of the crematorium into an air-raid shelter (Abbildung 2.4 at http://vho.org/D/vuez/v2.html or at http://www.vho.org/D/gzz/RudolfKIHEUTE.gif, which shows the crematorium in its actual shape today.

[Goethe]

Reinhard, you seem to have a handle on the various ideas here; could you summarize where we're at. It's a bit confusing.