The grove at Auschwitz

[Landulf]

In the auschwitz album there are several photos claiming jews are waiting in the grove before undressing prior to gassing. The photos shows jews waiting among trees. There must be someone that knows whhere there was trees in the camp and the location of those trees and if they where near the ramp or near the alleged gaschamber? Just a thought...

[borjastick]

If you search google for the 'auschwitz albums' you will find the pictures from that set which claim to record the jews waiting patiently before being gassed.

Wiki describes it thus...

The Auschwitz Album is a photographic record of the Holocaust during the Second World War. It and the Sonderkommando photographs are the only known pictorial evidence of the extermination process inside Auschwitz II-Birkenau, the German extermination camp in occupied Poland.

https://www.yadvashem.org/yv/en/exhibit ... rrival.asp

I have studied this album a few times over the years and would ask you do this. Take a look at the pictures at face value without reading the captions and see what you see. Then look again and read the captions. It shows you how a few words can make the difference or change your perspective of an image. The pictures to me show nothing whatsoever of proof of mass murder as claimed.

[stinky]

The pictures to me show nothing whatsoever of proof of mass murder as claimed.

Agreed.
Another tired hoaxter trick.
Take a completely innocent photo & extrapolate an unrelated horror story, where the photo itself reveals absolutely nothing of the invented, irrational interpretation.
1 + 1 = 6million

[borjastick]

The pictures to me show nothing whatsoever of proof of mass murder as claimed.

Agreed.
Another tired hoaxter trick.
Take a completely innocent photo & extrapolate an unrelated horror story, where the photo itself reveals absolutely nothing of the invented, irrational interpretation.
1 + 1 = 6million

I've just spent some time looking in detail at these pictures once again and see that many of the 'jews' in them are well fed, well dressed and seem reasonably happy, if that could be possible in a time of deep worry for them. The pics also show that men had had their hair shaved before getting on the trains as they are seen on the track side in Auschwitz with a clean and tidy haircut.

Also that there are several shots of women having clearly had a change of clothes into work attire and with shaved heads so it is reasonable to assume they also had taken a shower. These showers would have been in the same shower facilities where it is claimed others were gassed. Pure fantasy. I could go through many of these pictures and re-caption them with an altogether cheerier and different message which would paint a very different picture to that which they are trying to convey.

The bottom line is that not one picture in this album shows anything untoward happening or about to happen.

I then re-read the home page blurb which i find odd and suspect. here it is...

The Auschwitz Album is the only surviving visual evidence of the process leading to the mass murder at Auschwitz-Birkenau. It is a unique document and was donated to Yad Vashem by Lilly Jacob-Zelmanovic Meier.

The photos were taken at the end of May or beginning of June 1944, either by Ernst Hofmann or by Bernhard Walter, two SS men whose task was to take ID photos and fingerprints of the inmates (not of the Jews who were sent directly to the gas chambers). The photos show the arrival of Hungarian Jews from Carpatho-Ruthenia. Many of them came from the Berehovo Ghetto, which itself was a collecting point for Jews from several other small towns.

Early summer 1944 was the apex of the deportation of Hungarian Jewry. For this purpose a special rail line was extended from the railway station outside the camp to a ramp inside Auschwitz. Many of the photos in the album were taken on the ramp. The Jews then went through a selection process, carried out by SS doctors and wardens. Those considered fit for work were sent into the camp, where they were registered, deloused and distributed to the barracks. The rest were sent to the gas chambers. They were gassed under the guise of a harmless shower, their bodies were cremated and the ashes were strewn in a nearby swamp. The Nazis not only ruthlessly exploited the labor of those they did not kill immediately, they also looted the belongings the Jews brought with them. Even gold fillings were extracted from the mouths of the dead by a special detachment of inmates. The personal effects the Jews brought with them were sorted by inmates and stored in an area referred to by the inmates as "Canada": the ultimate land of plenty.

The photos in the album show the entire process except for the killing itself.

The purpose of the album is unclear. It was not intended for propaganda purposes, nor does it have any obvious personal use. One assumes that it was prepared as an official reference for a higher authority, as were photo albums from other concentration camps.

Lilly never hid the album and news of its existence was published many times. She was even called to present it as testimony at the Auschwitz trials in Frankfurt during the 1960s. She kept it all the years until the famous Nazi-hunter Serge Klarsfeld visited her in 1980, and convinced her to donate the album to Yad Vashem.

In 1994 the album was restored in Yad Vashem's conservation laboratory and information on each one of the photos was typed into the computerized databank of the archive. The staff of the archive was able to compare and match the pictures with aerial photos taken by the US Army Air Force on several occasions in 1944-45. In 1999 the entire album was scanned with the highest quality digital equipment.

There are 56 pages and 193 photos in the album. Some of the original pictures, presumably those given by Lilly to survivors who had identified relatives in the photographs, are missing. One of these pictures was recently donated to Yad Vashem

I wonder how on earth this woman came by this album, how she survived this 'death camp' if indeed she was in it at all and why would there be a very obvious photographic record of the events if these were the immediate steps before mass murder. I have never been able to understand that if pictures like these were taken in a death camp, because the Germans had no fear of losing the war and any subsequent trials etc, why would they not also film and photograph the gassing process???

[Lamprecht]

Borjastick

I could go through many of these pictures and re-caption them with an altogether cheerier and different message which would paint a very different picture to that which they are trying to convey.

That really says it all. You can caption a photo however you wish. Captioning a photo "jews standing around to be gassed" is used as evidence for gassings. How ludicrous

[david2923]

The Hoaxters may claim in the area of Krema 4 and 5?

[NFrNJ]

The pictures to me show nothing whatsoever of proof of mass murder as claimed.

what would show proof of mass murder?

these are pictures allegedly of people going to be killed (not of them being killed) but also of the selection process, which is a central part of the alleged process. But unless you have some context for them the pictures cannot even be said to show that or anything else. Photos are not magically endowed with their context. They do not contain all the information about who took them, when, where, why, and who the people are, where they came from or went to, why, or how. so throwing away this piece of the evidence as not showing the whole story is like throwing away a piece of the jigsaw because it does not show the whole picture.

[borjastick]

The pictures to me show nothing whatsoever of proof of mass murder as claimed.

what would show proof of mass murder?

these are pictures allegedly of people going to be killed (not of them being killed) but also of the selection process, which is a central part of the alleged process. But unless you have some context for them the pictures cannot even be said to show that or anything else. Photos are not magically endowed with their context. They do not contain all the information about who took them, when, where, why, and who the people are, where they came from or went to, why, or how. so throwing away this piece of the evidence as not showing the whole story is like throwing away a piece of the jigsaw because it does not show the whole picture.

But it isn't evidence matey. The only thing it proves was that these people pictured there were there. Nothing more. I could show a picture of Lewis Hamilton on the grid before a formula one race and caption it Lewis Hamilton just before winning another race. It means nothing whatsoever. As I said in one of my earlier comments the proof would be a)pictures/film of mass executions/gassings happening and b)pictures of multiple bodies afterwards and many different pictures too. That these do not exist and we know many thousands of jews survived Auschwitz by being transported elsewhere, being alive in the camp at the end and by the fact that no method of gassing was ever proven to be used and there are no one million remains of them jews is enough for me.

[Hannover]

The pictures to me show nothing whatsoever of proof of mass murder as claimed.

what would show proof of mass murder?

these are pictures allegedly of people going to be killed (not of them being killed) but also of the selection process, which is a central part of the alleged process. But unless you have some context for them the pictures cannot even be said to show that or anything else. Photos are not magically endowed with their context. They do not contain all the information about who took them, when, where, why, and who the people are, where they came from or went to, why, or how. so throwing away this piece of the evidence as not showing the whole story is like throwing away a piece of the jigsaw because it does not show the whole picture.

Yet you have no proof that they were "going to be killed ", period.

You claim that they were about to be "selected for the alleged gas chambers", as part of alleged "special treatment", however you have been challenged to produce proof of the impossible gas chambers, which you dodged because there is no proof.
here:
Challenge to Believer & Forum registrant NFrNJ on alleged 'gas chambers'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13701

NFrNJ, as a Believer in the 'holocaust" narrative which claims that 6,000,000 Jews and multiple millions of so called 'others' were murdered mostly in gas chambers, I challenge you to tell this Forum how that alleged gassing process was accomplished step by step.

Given that you truly believe that the 'holocaust' story is factual, one would think that this challenge presents no problems for you.

We await.

Thanks, Hannover

Your "jigsaw" is nothing more than innocuous photos which contradict the very narrative you are trying to defend.

More debunking of the alleged & unproven "special treatment & selections for the gas chambers" here:

Liar Sergey Romanov taken to task / The “Special Treatment” of Registered Auschwitz Inmates, By Carlo Mattogno:
https://codoh.com/library/document/the- ... chwitz/en/

A more complete demolition of the claims here:

http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1

Selection at Auschwitz: Extermination Claims Refuted / Example of an Eyewitness Account Falsely Interpreted through the Lens of Dogma, By Jean-Marie Boisdefeu
https://codoh.com/library/document/sele ... claims/en/
and:
Document 3012-PS: "Sonderbehandlung"/Special Treatment, By Zeitzler , Peuckert , Bachmann , et al.
https://codoh.com/library/document/docu ... atment/en/

How revealing it is when the indoctrinated are given an opportunity to prove what they espouse and simply cannot do so.

- Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the ‘holocaust’ storyline is the message.

[borjastick]

We'll soon be back at the old chestnut 'well if they weren't killed what happened to them and where did they go'. Complete nonsense of course. They leave that hanging there meant to be a self fulfilling argument, but it isn't.

I noticed in the pictures from the Auschwitz Album how well dressed many of the jews are and how quite a few were eating food and looking quite smiley/jolly. This would go right against the old claims that they were miserable having spent days in packed cattle cars with no toilet, water or food. Not much proof of those conditions in the pictures on show.

[Landulf]

But is it not possible to pinpoint their movement through the camp and where they are in a chronological order. From the ramp to This location and What they are doing There?

[Hannover]

But is it not possible to pinpoint their movement through the camp and where they are in a chronological order. From the ramp to This location and What they are doing There?

I doubt that records of every step of every person are available, but I suggest that you read the work of Mattogno, see link posted above.

However, we do know that the outbound train records have been hidden or destroyed. So ...

And of course, knowing that the alleged 'gas chambers' are bogus and could not have done what is alleged, it's irrelevant anyway.

- Hannover

[stinky]

Photos are not magically endowed with their context. They do not contain all the information about who took them, when, where, why, and who the people are, where they came from or went to, why, or how.

Quite right.
All that's required is (((someone))) to interpret the photos / documents / witness testimony / add context & wallah!
The holohoax

[Archie]

Eric Hunt cites this as one of his key arguments for his supposed conversion.

https://archive.fo/DoGTn

He makes a huge deal about a picture of an old lady. He purports that it could only have been taken outside of Krema 5 and he wants us to imagine that she was about to get gassed.

The thing that’s so amazing about this is that it’s so radically out of proportion with the claims alleged. The story is that there was an extermination program that killed six million Jews and people try to use a picture like that as evidence. Hunts argument is not very robust because it requires a chain of assumptions for it to work and he could easily be wrong about any one of them.

[Moderator]

Eric Hunt cites this as one of his key arguments for his supposed conversion.

https://archive.fo/DoGTn

He makes a huge deal about a picture of an old lady. He purports that it could only have been taken outside of Krema 5 and he wants us to imagine that she was about to get gassed.

The thing that’s so amazing about this is that it’s so radically out of proportion with the claims alleged. The story is that there was an extermination program that killed six million Jews and people try to use a picture like that as evidence. Hunts argument is not very robust because it requires a chain of assumptions for it to work and he could easily be wrong about any one of them.

Not to change the thrust of this thread, but allow me to refer readers to this thread on the supposed Eric Hunt "conversion":

Eric Hunt rolls over?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10950
M1