I'm a non-revisionist who would like to see you try to debunk this / Lanzmann's 'Shoah'

[GriffinFTW]

Hello there, I am a person who found out about this forum and have only one thing to post, a 10 hour long documentary about the Holocaust called Shoah from 1985.

Part 1:


Part 2:


(Click on CC for English subtitles)

I want you to watch all 10 hours of this and try to debunk it.

[Dresden]

Hello there, GrifithFTW. and welcome to the Forum.

Here is a link to the Holocaust Handbook series; I want you to read all 36 volumes and try to debunk it:

http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?main_page=1

[Elroy]

Hello there, I am a person who found out about this forum and have only one thing to post, a 10 hour long documentary about the Holocaust called Shoah from 1985.

Part 1:


Part 2:


(Click on CC for English subtitles)

I want you to watch all 10 hours of this and try to debunk it.

That everything within that 10 hour documentary is demonstrably a lie with regards to extermination or gas chambers beyond dispute is not the main response. But that it's not even an intelligent lie.

Only someone warped by propaganda could possibly watch this film and not become a holocaust denier- it's just that absurd.

I believe OneThirdOfTheHolocaust used Lansman's footage from the film as part of his debunking of Reinhardt etc.

The best thing the liars can do is to shut totally up and not make films or books etc- because each time they do they serve the lie up on a plate for us.

[Hannover]

Greetings,
That's old news here, very old.

It remains for you to answer:
What is it in this Zionist marathon that you find compelling?
Why?
Give specific examples.

No offense, but please see guidelines, especially about posting links.

Nonetheless, here are just a few of the knockout punches landed against this discredited & frankly ridiculous film:

The Dictatorship of Imbecility
Claude Lanzmann and ‘Shoah’
By Serge Thion
https://codoh.com/library/document/2716/?lang=en

Shoah
A film review By Robert Faurisson
https://codoh.com/library/document/2184/?lang=en

book review of:
Shoah: An Oral History of the Holocaust. The Complete Text of the Film, by Claude Lanzmann
By Theodore J. O'Keefe
https://codoh.com/library/document/2190/?lang=en

Holocaust Movie Shoah Exposed as Propaganda
By Jean-Francois Beaulieu
http://www.vho.org/tr/2003/2/Beaulieu166-168.html

Shoah film 'witnesses' were paid says director Lanzmann
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1393&p=81595

much more here:
https://codoh.com/search/?sorting=relev ... mann+shoah
and:
search.php?keywords=lanzmann+shoah&fid%5B0%5D=2

Welcome, Hannover

We're talking about an alleged '6M Jews & 5M others' ... 11,000,000.
There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claims of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, or even yhe 35,000 alleged at Babi Yar) even though Jews claim they still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.

[Dresden]

Here is a quote by Claude Lanzmann:

"There is not one second of archival material in Shoah because it is not the way I work or think, and besides it does not exist.... If I had found an existing film – a secret film because that was forbidden – shot by an SS and showing how 3,000 Jews, men, women and children, were dying together, asphyxiated in the gas chamber of Krema 2 in Auschwitz, not only would I have not shown it, but I would have destroyed it. I cannot say why. It goes by itself" -- Claude Lanzmann

[Dresden]

Here's a good article about the "star" of the movie: "Shoah":

https://codoh.com/library/document/1473/

Abraham Bomba, Barber of Treblinka

By Bradley R. Smith

[Carto's Cutlass Supreme]

Yes, Abraham Bomba made such an impression on those who saw and reviewed the movie (George Will for instance), and was featured on the cover of the VHS box set. In my video One Third Of The Holocaust, I looked at his lie-testimony and a lot of other moments in Lanzmann's Shoah.

Franz Suchomel is featured in Lanzmann's Shoah and you'll find a lot about him here on this forum.

[borjastick]

GriffinFTW

By saying you are a non revisionist does that mean you are a believer or just sitting on the fence and have been so far convinced by what you have seen in Shoah?

In case you are the latter perhaps you would consider that the story has moved on considerably since Shoah. Science, investigation, forensics, research data etc etc have all shed new and sadly, for them, very critical opinions on the claims of the holocaust.

It is now perfectly reasonable to say to anyone who still believes that they are in a small minority of those who have the facility to know the truth but refuse to listen.

[Breker]

In citing 'Shoah" it appears that the OP's GriffinFTW thought he / she had something that was really going to throw Revisionists through a loop. Clearly that has backfired. Notice that GriffinFTW has fled the field, we seriously doubt he will return.
Oh the mind of the True Believer.
B.

[Carto's Cutlass Supreme]

It could be that GriffinFTW is going to become a denier. I remember when I believed in the holocaust, I had a good Jewish friend who was starting to mention the holocaust more and more often and it was a source of gloom and depression for him in his life. Either that or he was down and being down made him more gravitate to it? I had a female Jewish roommate at the time whose last name was Stern, he himself had a pretty cool rare German last name (over 20 years ago) and I remember I introduced them and when they were then talking alone in the kitchen, I remember overhearing her say "I usually don't talk about the holocaust when I first meet someone." Ie he'd brought the subject up right away. Anyway, I can still remember that from him I first heard of Lanzmann and the movie "Shoah." And I think I heard of the length. 9 hours long. And before that, the movie "My Dinner With André" which I've never seen, was the only other movie I'd heard of that had this huge length. But I remember peripherally thinking that this movie was evidence of this horrible thing, that I didn't need to see because I already knew the kind of sadness and terribleness that would be in it.

8 years later when I full circled into watching it, when making One Third of the Holocaust, I remembered how I'd thought of the movie before. And it was so weird to then observe it to be a "nothing burger" of evidence, but also horror stories (Bomba) that were obvious scams.

[Hektor]

Welcome to CODOH, Griffin.

Hello there, I am a person who found out about this forum and have only one thing to post, a 10 hour long documentary about the Holocaust called Shoah from 1985.
...

I want you to watch all 10 hours of this and try to debunk it.

You got a befitting response to your absurd demand above.
But I'll try to make it manageable for you:
First pick a specific testimony you find most convincing from the video, then we can analyse it and show you why this isn't either proof or simply wrong.

Having watched the movie, I don't really think Claude Lanzmann did do such a big favor to Holocaust promotion with it.
I'd say it works just fine to affirm people's believe, that are already emotionally captured by the Holocaust narrative. Now that would apply to people who were confronted with compulsory Holocaust education in their schooling system, something that is the case in several European countries. The trick there is to show pictures of sick or dead prisoners from concentration camps, something that actually is only rather remotely linked to the Holocaust or any NS-German "extermination program", which supposedly was performed further East.

When the waters weren't muddied that way and one would show the 9 hours movie to an unbiased audience, I think they'd quickly be convinced that there is something fishy with the Holocaust. Especially when they can also see Lanzmann's trickery (as on the source material, he published as well) of trying to get statements taped/filmed from people that actually invited him into their homes (knowing that he is a Jew) to talk, but didn't give him consent to record what they were telling them. Mind you, those were NS-functionaries previously. Turns out they are actually really nice people, not the type of fanatics you expect in a real extermination program.

OK, take your pick and we can discuss it then.

[Hieldner]

I want you to watch all 10 hours of this and try to debunk it.

Are you the same Griffin who spends a lot of his time trying to debunk the evil deniers in Youtube comment sections or am I mistaking you for someone else?

Okay, the movie starts with Chelmno. It begins with a little inconsistency in that it first states that 400,000 Jews were murdered there and then it states 400,000 went there and two survived. In contrast, the death toll claimed by the Poles in 1946 was 340,000. In the 1960s at the German Chelmno trials the death toll decreased to about 150,000 and they claimed there were three survivors, not two. They made the following statements (they talk of 180,000 here and settled for at least 150,000 at the end of the trial):

One of the three survivors of the Chelmno murder camp testified today in the trial of 12 former SS guards at the camp that Jews, stunned but not killed in the camp’s poison gas vans, were tossed alive into the furnaces. The defendants are charged with the murder of 180,000 Jews in the camp in Nazi-held Poland during the war.
The witness, Max Surawsky, an Israeli who came here to testify, said that such Jewish victims, revived by the fires, began to scream. Occasionally, an SS guard would shoot at such victims till complete quiet prevailed in the crematorium.
He said he survived because, in spite of chains on his feet, he was able to flee from the camp and hide the night before Russian troops arrived in January 1945. When he returned to the burning camp, he said, he found Simon Srebnik, then a 14-year old boy, badly injured.
Srebnik who also came from Israel to testify, told the court about the various cruelties inflicted on Jewish prisoners. He himself, he said, was forced to stand outside in the cold, at the suggestion of Alois Haefele, one of the defendants, while water was poured over him. He was forced to stand absolutely still, to the amusement of Haefele and a girl friend, until the water froze and covered him with ice.
After hearing the two Israeli witnesses, the court adjourned until the end of this month, when more witnesses are scheduled to testify.

https://www.jta.org/1963/01/22/archive/jewish-survivors-of-chelmno-camp-testify-at-trial-of-guards

It’s these kind of witness testimonies that make the whole topic so entertaining for me, in case you wondered. The current claimed death toll is about 150,000 and there are 7 claimed survivors (not including the survivors of the Lodz ghetto nearby). Except for the Central Commission for the Investigation of German Crimes in Poland which put the death toll at 1,300,000 in 1945, the official death toll was never as high as 400,000. So this movie is inaccurate even by orthodox standards. The Diesel gas vans (the main alleged murder weapon at Chelmno) are one of the most ridiculous aspects of the whole Holocaust story. Inhaling Diesel fumes isn’t quite healthy in the long term, but they aren’t suited at all for immediate mass murder. Srebnik says they burned 2000 bodies in two “ovens” every day (he previously claimed 15,000 victims in total for the year 1944 and either 1000–2000 or 1200 victims/day). This is a little stretch of imagination even by orthodox standards as well. Orthodoxy usually claims an unrealistic daily capacity of 50–100 bodies per Nazi muffle. Now I have a little task for you as well. Read this article and find out how long the cremation of one body takes in a modern, computer regulated, more efficient kerosene powered cremation unit today and convert the given kerosene consumption value to litres per body and then to kg/body. In addition, this “witness” talks about the “second phase” of operation of the camp in 1944 which has an alleged death toll of 7000 Jews in a period of ~6 months. There is a lot more to say about Chelmno, Lodz, gas vans, cremation, and so on and so on, but I will just shortly say that revisionists claim that most of the people deported to Chelmno were transported to the East. Because of the lack of documentation some revisionists decline to give a death toll number or estimate a few thousands.
Therefore the revisionist claim is that this witness Srebnik was angry at the Germans, perhaps rightly so, and lied in front of the camera. Which one of these claims is more unrealistic and outrageous, the revisionist or Srebnik’s? And if orthodoxy had 40 years since the end of the war until the publishing date of this movie to create a consistent, evidence based Holocaust narrative, why did Lanzmann, whose “research” for this movie took him 11 years, feel the need to include this type of bullsh***? What does that say about orthodox historical research?
I somewhat covered the first few minutes of the movie. Questions, criticism? If this is helpful to you, we can continue. Or am I feeding a troll?