Are Jews a Race or just a Religious Group?

[borjastick]

Are Jews a Race or just a Religious Group? And more to the point is their superior arrogance what led to the holocaust and other expulsions over the last 500 years?

I ask this because Jews will tend to argue they are not only God's children, the chosenites, but as such are a unique group or race. I don't hold with this preferring the case put forward by Koestler in The Thirteenth Tribe that the ashkenazi jews who account for 90+% of jews on the planet were 12th century converts to Judaism for various reasons. He makes a very good case which some don't hold with and say there is plenty of DNA evidence proving the claim that Ashkenazis are very close to jews of the middle east region. I say to that the data and evidence is probably corrupted by you know who.

Furthermore I wonder why the records for jews in the concentration camp system always seems to show them their race as jewish. In other words that if a group of Poles were listed in the record they would be shown as Poles (presumably Catholics) but jews are listed as jews and never Polish jew or French jew.

Only this week in the run up to the entertainment event of the year in UK, the General Election, the London Evening Standard ran a story about a young jewish man who had had it with hiding his jewish identity and was coming out fighting. Not that I give a shit really but rather than ignore a story about jews my curiosity got the better of me and I read it. Once again he used jewish as a race or an identity. Here's what he said and the link so you can read it if you are really bored and have time on your hands...

Being a Jew in London has always been complicated.

I was born in Hackney, a place where the mix of cultures and ethnicities was part of who we all were, and where my Jewish mum and English dad raised a tall, blue-eyed boy who could still taste the shtetl in his Yiddish-speaking grandma’s chicken soup.

https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/esmagazine/how-it-feels-to-be-jewish-today-amidst-the-resurgence-of-antisemitism-in-the-capital-a4309986.html

So why did he say that? he could, after all have said English mother of jewish faith but no he clearly identifies her as jewish only. I wonder what passport she holds because being jewish isn't a race group in terms of nationality and citizenship.

Whenever I discuss the holocaust people tend to ask why I hate the jews, I don't btw, and then they ask why Hitler hated them so much and why they have been persecuted over the centuries. Maybe the answer is that the jews brought the US into WW1 and thus helped defeat the Germans and they are so obnoxious and act so superior that they bring hatred upon themselves. The very act of claiming one's mother is Jewish as if that suffices for nationality and that jews were identified as jews only and never from a country in the camp system says much for why they wish to stand out and this is based on their own arrogance.

Any comments on the above would be welcome.

[Lamprecht]

"The Jews" is a collection of ethnic groups. But they will try to act as if they are just a different religion if it suits their purposes. "My fellow White people..." phenomenon, etc.

But it's more than that, the unique mode of existence of Jews (living as minorities with low assimilation rates) would have subjected them to completely different evolutionary selective pressures. I explain that here: viewtopic.php?t=12888

Jews lived as minorities among host populations for thousands of years. If certain ethnocentric or collectivist behaviors have a genetic or heritable component, and they do, then if 2% of Jews assimilated into European Christian population every year (just a hypothetical number I made up, I don't know of any real figures) then that would end up changing the entire genome of the Jewish gene pool in this regard. If a population selects against a phenotype that promotes assimilation, or is anti-ethnocentrism/collectivism/whatever over a long period of time, you are selecting against the genotype which causes this behavior (in a certain environment).
Since every generation mixes the genes up, by removing the 2% or so of individuals most predisposed to assimilation (or have the weakest jewish ethnic identity) the trait is being consistently culled from the gene pool. Since this would have been going on to some degree every generation, it's not just reducing the % of Jews in the population at one point who would be likely to assimilate (essentially, no longer be Jewish) but it's reducing the frequency of "assimilation genes" in the entire population, changing the nature of all of the entire population, not just the ratio of jews who would be likely to assimilate in those circumstances.
But it should be noted that certain Jewish ethnicities today complain about assimilation issues, but that is also due to the fact that most have totally given up their religion and also live in a different sort of environment than in the past, when Jews were seen as untrustworthy outsiders.

And more to the point is their superior arrogance what led to the holocaust and other expulsions over the last 500 years?

The insistence of being a minority everywhere and majority nowhere. Combine that with their strong ethnocentrism, which manifests as a very powerful form of ethnic nepotism. Mix in a dash of deicide and a pinch of some abhorrent crime (ritualistic human sacrifice, coin shaving or other financial crimes, slave dealing, etc) and you have yourself a perfect recipe for mass hatred.

Furthermore I wonder why the records for jews in the concentration camp system always seems to show them their race as jewish.

Because they were seen as Jews who happened to live in Poland, France, Netherlands, etc - rather than Poles, French, or Dutch who happened to believe in Judaism.

Whenever I discuss the holocaust people tend to ask why I hate the jews

I obviously can't predict the future, but I do think the "Holocaust" story will end up doing Jews a lot of harm in the future. They don't know how to stop push-push-pushing. They could have just let it die a slow death, but no. It must be shoved in everyone's faces, constantly.

Too many Jews are utterly incapable of looking at their own group and saying "Hey, maybe something we/our leaders did resulted in Auschwitz. Maybe there's something we could stop doing and then people would hate us less."

Very few Jews do this, instead they think "Wow, Jews have been expelled from 1,000 places in history? Gentiles must be inherently defective! That's 1,000 expulsions for no reason!"

That sort of nonsense may work in a wealthy society with a majority West/North European descent - but otherwise it can not. Other groups will not care, and if you keep shoving it in their faces they will start to think there was a very good reason for it.

[Hannover]

And more to the point is their superior arrogance what led to the holocaust and other expulsions over the last 500 years?

Expulsions yes, "holocaust" no.
Unless one counts the movement of some Jews to work camps as the "holocaust".
In that case Japanese-Americans in the US & South America and Christians & political opponents in the USSR were 'holocausted' as well.

- Hannover

The mere fact that there are endless "survivors" when it's claimed that 'the Germans tried to kill every Jew they could get their hands on' blows away the impossible '6M Jews, 5M others, & gas chambers'.

[Andrewme]

I'm not materialistic, so i don't really buy that "Jewish race" thing. In fact, all that materialistic and chauvinist-irredentist view of race was only born in the 19th century, along the birth and ascension of darwinism. The root for all the Jewish segregration and foreign hate are religious roots. The Jews hated the foreign not because of their race, but because of their religion. The foreigners are bad because they don't follow God religion, and only the chosen people can follow God religion; that's the Jewish moral. While i will make clear that in Jewish Scriptures (which are the Christian Old Testament) the hebrews show their foreign hate, an hate which christians would later disapprove, i will not quote as this is an historical discussion, not religious. Instead, i will quote history founding-fathers:

As said by Greek Historian Diodorus Siculus:

Many of his friends urged him to storm the city, and to root out the whole nation of the Jews; for they only of all people hated to mix with any other nations, and treated them all as enemies [...] After they were thus expelled, they settled around Jerusalem, and were afterwards united into one nation, called the nation of the Jews; but their hatred of all other men descended with their blood to their posterity. And therefore they made strange laws, and quite different from other people; they never will eat nor drink with any of other nations, or wish them any prosperity. - Extracted from Books 34 & 35, covering the period 134 - 105 B.C.

Publius Tacitus quotes:

The other practices of the Jews are sinister and revolting, and have entrenched themselves by their very wickedness. Wretches of the most abandoned kind who had no use for the religion of their fathers took to contributing dues and free-will offerings to swell the Jewish exchequer; and other reasons for their increasing wealth way be found in their stubborn loyalty and ready benevolence towards brother Jews. But the rest of the world they confront with the hatred reserved for enemies. They will not feed or intermarry with gentiles. Though a most lascivious people, the Jews avoid sexual intercourse with women of alien race. Among themselves nothing is barred. - Histories 5.2-5

Historian and Statesman Cassius Dio also says:

At Jerusalem, Hadrian founded a city in place of the one which had been razed to the ground, naming it Aelia Capitolina, and on the site of the temple of the [Jewish] god, he raised a new temple to Jupiter. This brought on a war of no slight importance nor of brief duration, for the Jews deemed it intolerable that foreign races should be settled in their city and foreign religious rites planted there. - Historia Romana, Book LXIX, 12-1,2

When we talk about 'race' we talk about phenotype, skull, genetics, etc.; One cannot, for instace, deny that Negroid and Mongoloids aren't another race, as it is very clear by their distinct appearence. But with Jews the matter is different. They aren't considered another 'race' because of distinction of appearence, they are considered because of their distinction among every other foreigner, because of their voluntary segregationism. When Jews migrates, they never assimilate; they still remain as Jews. The Jew never Changes. You can search every Nation from B.C. to A.D., regardless they were Pagans, Christians, Muslins, i can give a very long list of how they all hated the jews by the same reasons Hitler did. They are a nation inside a nation, a nation which will never fully co-operated with yours, except if yours submite to they. Thats why they are considered an 'race'.

But again, all the materialistic point of view of 'race' was an Modern 19th-century phenomenon. Jews weren't treated like a different race (as if they differed from white people as well as black people does) until Hitler popularizes it. This is all post-WW2 matter. Before this, they were called an 'race' because of their foreign hate, not because of different blood.

All that said, i will answer your question shortly: They are both. How? I'll give you an example. Ask a Jew how many Jews are being "threatened", or how were killed in the Holocaust, whatever - The Jew will always answer that question by the 'race' side, if someone has Jewish descendence regardless of his religion. Now try to tell to that same Jew about genocidal Jews like Yagoda or Kaganovich - The Jew will say "No! They weren't Jews! They were Atheists!". So the point is: Jewish People being a Race or a Religion varies the way it suits the Jewish people. If the matter is victimize themselfs or try to glorify "good Jews" like Albert Einstein (who was a Atheist), Jews are an race; But if you try to call about "bad Jews" like Marx or Trotsky (who were also Atheists), Jews are an Religion.

You can apply that logic to the Israeli state as well - You cannot describe the State of Israel as an Theocracy, because its an Racial State, not Religious; but, at the same time, you can't describe it as an Racist State, because its a Religious State.

[Hektor]

I'm not materialistic, so i don't really buy that "Jewish race" thing. In fact, all that materialistic and chauvinist-irredentist view of race was only born in the 19th century, along the birth and ascension of darwinism. The root for all the Jewish segregration and foreign hate are religious roots. The Jews hated the foreign not because of their race, but because of their religion. The foreigners are bad because they don't follow God religion, and only the chosen people can follow God religion; ....

I'm not sure what you mean by "Materialistic" here?

Jews ARE NOT a religion. It's an ethnic group or set thereof that commonly shares a broader set of religious belief called Judaism.
The term race in the modern sense is a taxonomic one and refers to a set of common traits within a specified population groups. Debatable to what extent this applies to Jews or some of there subgroups like Ashkenazim, Sephardim, etc. The idea is that Jews descend from the ancient Israelites or the people that were called Jews (Judeans) during the time the New Testament was written. To what extent is debatable again. The post temple destruction Jews were dispersed and as for the groups like the Sephardim or Ashkenazim they underwent some ethnogenesis centuries later. So it's an equivocation to assume that the Old Testament Jews and the modern ones are the same ethnicity. There is probably more commonality between the Ancient Gauls and the modern French.

[Breker]

Previously posted:

Jews are White when they do something bad.
Jews are Jews when they do something good.

indeed.
B.

[Carto's Cutlass Supreme]

Are Jews a Race or just a Religious Group?

A race is maybe a physically isolated gene pool in a unique, isolated environment for thousands of years. Jews have elements of an isolated gene pool while among and interacting with others. Their internal process for "selecting" is unique. Their interaction with outsiders is unique. The religious part facilitates this. In the space of a few hundred years, that is going to create "a people."

[Turpitz]

The hardcore are a race from the Russian Steppes. They recruit, religiously, others on the way. They are not Semetic, they have been shipped into the Semetic lands from afar and have no relation to the biblical Isrealites. The once British Royal Family, is now Jewish, and they are politicised and wholly onboard with Agenda-21. They also loathe the British populace and their loyalties are with Zionism and the forthcoming N.W.O.

[subito]

Ever of someone changing their race? Not possible. Yet, you can change your religion to Judaism. I hope this answers your question.

[Lamprecht]

Ever of someone changing their race? Not possible. Yet, you can change your religion to Judaism. I hope this answers your question.

It does not, because being a Jew is not based on religious beliefs, even according to the religion of Judaism.

From the Chabad website: https://www.chabad.org/library/article_ ... Jewish.htm

The Torah itself proclaims (Leviticus 16:16) that G‑d "dwells amongst them in the midst of their impurities" — that His relationship with His people remains unaffected regardless of their behavior. In the words of the Talmud (Sanhedrin 44a), "A Jew, although he has transgressed, is a Jew."

According to Torah law, a person's Jewishness is not a matter of life-style or self-perception: one may be totally unaware of one's Jewishness and still be a Jew, or one may consider himself Jewish and observe all the precepts of the Torah and still not be a Jew.

In other words, it is the relationship between the Jew and his Creator that defines his Jewishness — not his acknowledgment of this relationship or his actualization of it in his daily life. It is not the observance of Torah's mitzvot (Divine "commandments") that makes him a Jew, but the commitment that the mitzvot represent.

I recommend also:

Judaism is Racism!
viewtopic.php?t=8387