Hoefle Telegram

[Tommo]

On the subject of the Hoefle Telegram...

A few things concern me regarding this document.

1. Discovered around 2000 is awfully suspicious, having numerical connection with the Korherr report is quite convenient, it has some of the markings of a "janitorial" document as well as of a fake, even ardent semi-exterminationists like Irving claimed only 80% assurance.

2. Making the frankly "large" assumption that it is authentic...

- How do we KNOW that L, T, B, S stand for Lublin, Treblinka, Belzec and Sobibor? I mean certainly, that makes sense, except that why not A for Auschwitz too? I mean Madjanek we know was really nothing alike these other "supposed" camps, yet that's included. And no "C" for Chelm either. Could these letters "possibly" have any other explanation? Could "L" stand for "losses" perhaps?

- Where we are simply "told" that the 70,000 odd figure for Treblinka is a mistake and should be read as 700,000 odd, is that really true? I mean, "without" that assumed correction, the connection between Hoefle and Korherr's figures are off by 700,000 for a start. Are there numerous connections between the figures of each individual camp here that strengthen that case? If it turns out the letters didn't stand for the camps as well, then the letter "T" might stand for something else that the figure would accurately represent.

I just wonder if anybody has put considerable effort into these issues before yet.

Seems to me, that the Irving/Weber/Cole/Hunt camp, completely upholds the outrageous mass murder in the 3 Reinhardt camps on the basis of the Hoefle/Korherr conflagration alone.

Despite the physical, technical, logistical and logical impossibility of the murder, cremation and burial
Despite the fact that burning is excluded from reality and the only possible method of execution is bullets.
Despite arial photgraphy revealed zero disturbance anywhere in or around the camp
Despite the fact ground radar demonstrates conclusivelty nobody was ever buried there
Despite no document ever explicitly asserting such
Despite no credible witness ever existing

^Incredible

[Hannover]

The Hoefle Telegram and the false claims about it have been easily debunked at this forum a while ago.
Nowhere does it say anything about killing anyone.
More lies & bluff from the 'Holocaust' Indu$try'.

see:
Irving's 'holocaust' lite / but what '2.4 million document'?
viewtopic.php?t=4548

Irving attempts 'rehabilitation' via the Hoefle Telegram
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4558

Grubach's Open Letter to David Irving
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4563
excerpt:

I see nothing at all that says the people being transported were being murdered. It seems to say that there were only a large number of people being transported to certain camps.
This is all very consistent with the Holocaust revisionist thesis as presented by historians Carlo Mattogno and Jurgen Graf in their Treblinka: Extermination Camp or Transit Camp? and in Mattogno's Belzec in Propaganda, Testimonies, Archeological Research, and History.
My questions to you are these. Let us assume that the document is 100% genuine and authentic. How does the document refute the Holocaust revisionist viewpoint that the mass murder Jews did not take place in Treblinka, Belzec and Sobibor? How does it prove that the mass murder of Jews took place in those camps?

and:
Inbound train records, but no outbound records. Why?
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2355

- Hannover

German officer Stauffenberg & Co. never claimed anything like an extermination program as one of their motives for the attempted coup against Hitler.

[hermod]

On the subject of the Hoefle Telegram...

A few things concern me regarding this document.

1. Discovered around 2000 is awfully suspicious, having numerical connection with the Korherr report is quite convenient, it has some of the markings of a "janitorial" document as well as of a fake, even ardent semi-exterminationists like Irving claimed only 80% assurance.

Generally speaking, I always felt that Holocaust revisionists & WW2 revisionists would gain nothing from the declassification of Allied archives. Given the major interests at stake, the obliteration of important documents supporting the revisionist position and the planting of forgeries supporting the exterminationist position are very likely if I'm asked. I doubt the declassified documents on WW2 won't be meticulously sorted and "processed" before release. Ditto for those already declassified in recent years.

- How do we KNOW that L, T, B, S stand for Lublin, Treblinka, Belzec and Sobibor? I mean certainly, that makes sense, except that why not A for Auschwitz too? I mean Madjanek we know was really nothing alike these other "supposed" camps, yet that's included. And no "C" for Chelm either.

Chelmno, not Chelm. 2 distinct Polish cities. Some Soviet propagandists equipped Chelm with a fictitious Nazi death factory during WW2, but this war lie was dropped a long time ago.

Seems to me, that the Irving/Weber/Cole/Hunt camp, completely upholds the outrageous mass murder in the 3 Reinhardt camps on the basis of the Hoefle/Korherr conflagration alone.

What upholds their new stand is called persecution...

[Hektor]

I have no idea, if it is authentic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H%C3%B6fle_Telegram

But you must be really twisted in your mind to believe that it "proves" that anyone was killed at the camps in questions. It's about arrivals there. Assuming this proves killing is quite some eiegesis into the text, since this can not be deducted from what's on paper there.

What can be deducted from the prominence the Hoefle enjoys is that they don't really have much worth showing in terms of evidence for mass gassings at those camps.

[Tommo]

Yes, I understand that alone this document shows nothing of mass exterminations.

It's used as circumstantial evidence on conjunction with the "Korherr" report if my understanding here is correct.

My German isn't very good. But I'm led to believe by David Cole for example in his 2nd reply to Hunt that exterminations are explicitly inferred.

I've also seen that it's nothing more than a statistical report though.

Again, I've seen no validity to changing the figure for T to 10x it's value of the Hoefle telegram to suit the Korherr report.
Korherr himself denied it being about killings

BUT there is that crap Irving spews..

On the one hand we have Korherr asking for clarification about the term "special treatment" and being told transport to East, hence changing it to "processed" if that is correct translation?

On the other hand we have apparently "the secret exterminationists" upset at such a strong code word being used apparently asking for that term to be changed to something less homicidal sounding.

Is Irving spinning here?

In my opinion, if it's transport East, these Jew's merely transfer into the Einsatzgruppen issue. Basically the last frontier of the Big Lie. Were they settled or "liquidated".

[Tommo]

A thought occurred to me also. 1.5 million Jew's being moved to or through these camps whatever.. That's a lot of people.

Has any revisionist ever done a study on the actual credibility of all these Jews being transported by train? Or whether there is enough evidence to even support that that many Jew's WERE in fact transported, not just records, but also, say, regular photographs ground and air of trains?

That's a great deal of people 1.5 million by train for a nation forced to make petrol out of fuckin coal just to survive! I'm not sure if the logisitics of that many trips even works out, I don't think it does.