Aktion 1005 and Mattogno's alleged lies

[Morrison]

Werd:

I'm not doing this dance anymore and you're not running this thread off topic.

You're not dancing Werd, you're dodging.

No 'dodging'. When questioned or challenged on your statements, claims, or assertions, you must respond or leave the topic.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=358

I'm questioning and challenging you on your statements, claims and assertions made in this this thread by you Werd.


Werd:

nobody denies graves were opened... they were dug up and destroyed

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10120#p76298

What graves Werd? Can you show us one mass grave that was opened by this alleged "Aktion 1005" group?

The graves were "destroyted"? Can you tell us exactly how the alleged mass graves were destroyed Werd?


Werd:

Stop trying to complicate things.

I'm not trying to complicate things Werd.

What makes you think that you can make statements, claims, or assertions on this forum and not be challenged on them?

Are you special? Did you write yourself a free pass?

[Morrison]

I guess I'm not surprised that Werd ran away when challenged to prove these unsubstantiated allegations:

I would say that Romanov may be correct on this one

I bet Belzec and Treblinka had at least a few mass graves

the remains of thousands of Jews exist in each of the Aktion Reinhardt camps

nobody denies graves were opened

they were dug up and destroyed

Werd, even though you cannot deny something that doesn't exist or never happened - I "deny" your unsubstantiated allegations.

But I do have an open mind and I'm not afraid of accepting or acknowledging the truth.

It's just that I am not a gullible true-believer like you.

You could say I'm a skeptic - I need to see proof of something BEFORE I believe it.

Especially something that could be scientifically proven as easily as the "huge mass graves" canard.

Come on Werd, at least TRY to prove your unsubstantiated allegations.

And at least answer this one simple question that you've been dodging:

Can you show us just one mass grave that was opened by this alleged "Aktion 1005" group?

[Werd]

Here is the main thrust of Morrison's problem.

Take it up with Mattogno who agrees with the drill findings of Kola at Belzec that included corpses in wax fat transformation.

And you have stated unequivocally that you agree with Mattogno. So I bring it up with you.

Still, Morrison can't read.

Bring up a thread on Kola and Belzec or Treblinka and I will gladly continue the discussion about those camps there

And,

Are those three documents Romanov cited authentic or are they fakes/forgeries?
Did Mattogno and Rudolf thus make a mistake about a lack of paper trial for "1005" yes or no?
Did Mattogno and Graf confuse two separate documents with one as Romanov claimed, yes or no?

[Morrison]

I count three times now that Werd has dodged this question:

Can you show us just one mass grave that was opened by this alleged "Aktion 1005" group?

Why is Werd dodging such a simple and relevant question?

I wonder if he's going to make it four?

[Morrison]

Werd:

Still, Morrison can't read.

I can read just fine Werd. In fact, I just read some more of your unsubstantiated allegations over on that other site.


Werd:

Since nobody, not even revisionists, claim that hundreds of thousands of animals were ever in the camps, this is why Nessie finds the debate useless. We could take the bones to the lab to be absolutely sure, but the gas chamber mongers say there is enough inductive evidence indicating the likelihood of them being human bone remains. I'm inclined to agree. Until any equal or better evidence comes along that there were other types of beings/animals in the camps in large numbers, I'm inclined to think that inductively speaking, the claim they are human bones is the best hypothesis.

...

Well the thing about the holocaust believers is that they don't think they need to do any testing given the prevalence of finding human remains in the years after the camps were closed by the nazis. Soviet liberators and Polish grave robbers did find human remains including ashes, bones and skulls. Don't pretend those famous photos from the ghetto fighters house were not of human remains. Especially with those human skulls in the picture.

You are correct. No one ever said there were "hundreds of thousands of animals" in these camps. Where did you come up that nonsense?

Then stop insinuating there is another viable option when all the inductive evidence does not allow so. Okay, there may be a few stray animal bones in Treblinka like Eric Hunt pointed out when he found those horse bones, but I'm sure that's just an exception.

Can you tell us Werd, where exactly the so-called "Soviet liberators and Polish grave robbers did find human remains including ashes, bones and skulls?"

And don't forget to prove your claims with " those famous photos from the ghetto fighters house."

[Werd]

If Morrison could read, he would not have missed quoting the last part of my previous post. The part with those three questions.

[Moderator]

Werd:
Please give us specifics when responding to specific questions, such as:

What graves Werd? Can you show us one mass grave that was opened by this alleged "Aktion 1005" group?

The graves were "destroyed"? Can you tell us exactly how the alleged mass graves were destroyed Werd?

Can you tell us Werd, where exactly the so-called "Soviet liberators and Polish grave robbers did find human remains including ashes, bones and skulls?"

And don't forget to prove your claims with " those famous photos from the ghetto fighters house."

Thanks, M1

[Morrison]

I count three times now that Werd has dodged this question:

Can you show us just one mass grave that was opened by this alleged "Aktion 1005" group?

Why is Werd dodging such a simple and relevant question?

I wonder if he's going to make it four?

Four times it is.

I wonder if he'll make it five?


Werd, did you dodge this question:

Can you tell us Werd, where exactly the so-called "Soviet liberators and Polish grave robbers did find human remains including ashes, bones and skulls?"

And don't forget to prove your claims with " those famous photos from the ghetto fighters house."

because you can't read, or because you can't prove what you allege?

No wonder Werd spends so much time over at that other site, he never has to defend his unsubstantiated allegations.

[Werd]

Morrison's five time dodging of my three questions ABOUT DOCUMENTS is good but my alleged dodging is bad. Nice double standard. For the FIFTH TIME, Morrison, bring up a relevant thread on the PHYSICAL evidence and I will discuss it there. This thread is about DOCUMENTS.

Morrison can't even bring himself to refrain from arguing a straw man. I NEVER CLAIMED AN AKTION 1005 GROUP OPENED ANY GRAVES. WE CAN'T EVEN ESTABLISH THAT SUCH A GROUP EXISTED FROM THE DOCUMENTS. THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT!!!

[Morrison]

Six times it is.

I wonder if he'll make it seven?


Werd:

I NEVER CLAIMED AN AKTION 1005 GROUP OPENED ANY GRAVES.

But you did claim:

I bet Belzec and Treblinka had at least a few mass graves

the remains of thousands of Jews exist in each of the Aktion Reinhardt camps

nobody denies graves were opened

they were dug up and destroyed

Soviet liberators and Polish grave robbers did find human remains including ashes, bones and skulls

Don't pretend those famous photos from the ghetto fighters house were not of human remains

So just to be clear here Werd:


Can you show us just one mass grave that was opened by this alleged "Aktion 1005" group?

Yes or no?

Can you prove that at least one mass grave currently exists at Belzec and Treblinka II?

Yes or no?

Can you prove that at least one mass grave ever existed at Belzec and Treblinka II?

Yes or no?

Can you prove that the remains of thousands of jews exist at Belzec?

Yes or no?

Can you prove that the remains of thousands of jews exist at Chelmno?

Yes or no?

Can you prove that the remains of thousands of jews exist at Sobibor?

Yes or no?

Can you prove that the remains of thousands of jews exist at Treblinka II?

Yes or no?

Can you prove that at least on grave was dug up / opened and destroyed in the Belzec camp?

Yes or no?

Can you prove that at least on grave was dug up / opened and destroyed in the Chelmno camp?

Yes or no?

Can you prove that at least on grave was dug up / opened and destroyed in the Sobibor camp?

Yes or no?

Can you prove that at least on grave was dug up / opened and destroyed in the Treblinka II camp?

Yes or no?

Can you tell us where exactly the so-called "Soviet liberators and Polish grave robbers did find human remains including ashes, bones and skulls?"

Yes or no?

If your answer to that last question is yes, then please prove your claims with " those famous photos from the ghetto fighters house."

Werd:

Are those three documents Romanov cited authentic or are they fakes/forgeries?

I'm not sure.

Did Mattogno and Rudolf thus make a mistake about a lack of paper trial for "1005" yes or no?

I'm not sure.

Did Mattogno and Graf confuse two separate documents with one as Romanov claimed, yes or no?

I'm not sure.

[Werd]

I bet Belzec and Treblinka had at least a few mass graves

Revisionists are even fond of quoting the judgement from Lukaszkiewicz who claimed to have found bits of flesh and bone and they also find passages in his work that seem to indicate a lack of evidence of hundreds of thousands of Jews in Treblinka. I.E. Mattogno-Graf's book on Treblinka. If you want to pass judgement on me for behaving/believing like Graf and mattogno that limited remains were in the AR camps, fine. But hey, you gotta bury them somewhere in the ground, right? If not a mass grave, then perhaps smaller more spread out graves? Fine, you split those hairs Morrison. I'm talking about quantity of remains, HOWEVER they were buried in WHATEVER style of grave or graves.

nobody denies graves were opened

How else would they get those bones out?

they were dug up and destroyed

When you dig up a grave, you in effect destroy it because you are ruining the natural layers of the soil. Once you take a core sample, you wouldn't just dump the dirt back in and say, "There were go, the ground is exactly like it was before we got here." You ruin the stratigraphy.

Mattogno does not deny there were limited human remains found in Belzec.

[3]

On p. 386 Muehlenkamp reproduces two pictures of “a pit made by robbery diggers [which] can be found in the archives of the Ghetto Fighters House (Image 7.1)” and “some of the human remains examined by the Polish coroner whose report is quoted by Mattogno (Image 7.2).” Both pictures are reproduced below as Illustrations 11.1 and 11.2. As one can see from the pictures, the alleged “large amounts” are actually very small, which only confirms my doubts about the real amount of the human remains actually found.



At the time Bełżec is said to already have been designated as an “ex-termination camp,” and therefore the findings should have consisted of extremely large quantities. Only a few months later, on 11 April 1946, the Zamość Assistant prosecutor summarized the results of his investigation about Bełżec in a report in which he declared that the number of victims was 1,800,000. [2671]. The two pictures presented alongside (Figures 11.3 and 11.4), which were taken in Bełżec on an unknown date, fully confirm the ridiculously small magnitude of the human bones found there.

[borjastick]

It's the grave robber bit that gets me. How would anyone know about the actions of grave robbers? Have I missed something? Have grave robbers admitted anything and of course with necessary proof?

[Morrison]

Six times it is.

I wonder if he'll make it seven?


Werd:

I NEVER CLAIMED AN AKTION 1005 GROUP OPENED ANY GRAVES.

But you did claim:

I bet Belzec and Treblinka had at least a few mass graves

the remains of thousands of Jews exist in each of the Aktion Reinhardt camps

nobody denies graves were opened

they were dug up and destroyed

Soviet liberators and Polish grave robbers did find human remains including ashes, bones and skulls

Don't pretend those famous photos from the ghetto fighters house were not of human remains

So just to be clear here Werd:


Can you show us just one mass grave that was opened by this alleged "Aktion 1005" group?

Yes or no?

Can you prove that at least one mass grave currently exists at Belzec and Treblinka II?

Yes or no?

Can you prove that at least one mass grave ever existed at Belzec and Treblinka II?

Yes or no?

Can you prove that the remains of thousands of jews exist at Belzec?

Yes or no?

Can you prove that the remains of thousands of jews exist at Chelmno?

Yes or no?

Can you prove that the remains of thousands of jews exist at Sobibor?

Yes or no?

Can you prove that the remains of thousands of jews exist at Treblinka II?

Yes or no?

Can you prove that at least on grave was dug up / opened and destroyed in the Belzec camp?

Yes or no?

Can you prove that at least on grave was dug up / opened and destroyed in the Chelmno camp?

Yes or no?

Can you prove that at least on grave was dug up / opened and destroyed in the Sobibor camp?

Yes or no?

Can you prove that at least on grave was dug up / opened and destroyed in the Treblinka II camp?

Yes or no?

Can you tell us where exactly the so-called "Soviet liberators and Polish grave robbers did find human remains including ashes, bones and skulls?"

Yes or no?

If your answer to that last question is yes, then please prove your claims with " those famous photos from the ghetto fighters house."

Werd:

Are those three documents Romanov cited authentic or are they fakes/forgeries?

I'm not sure.

Did Mattogno and Rudolf thus make a mistake about a lack of paper trial for "1005" yes or no?

I'm not sure.

Did Mattogno and Graf confuse two separate documents with one as Romanov claimed, yes or no?

I'm not sure.

Note: I messed up and inadvertently changed the beginning of my last post.

I thought I had hit the quote button but must have hit the edit button.

[Morrison]

Werd:

Mattogno does not deny there were limited human remains found in Belzec.

I do not care what Mattogno denies or does not deny.


Werd:

If you want to pass judgement on me for behaving/believing like Graf and mattogno that limited remains were in the AR camps, fine.

What a joke.

You do not behave like Graf and Mattogno,

You behave like that Nessie fellow who was banned from Codoh for lying and dodging.

(And notice how Werd has gone from "the remains of thousands" to "limited remains.")

[Morrison]

Werd:

I bet Belzec and Treblinka had at least a few mass graves

the remains of thousands of Jews exist in each of the Aktion Reinhardt camps

Soviet liberators and Polish grave robbers did find human remains including ashes, bones and skulls

And here is Werd's "proof:"








Can you prove those photos were taken at Belzec Werd?

Yes or no?

Can you prove that those bones are jews who were buried by the Germans?

Yes or no?

And how is that supposed to be proof that "the remains of thousands of Jews exist in each of the Aktion Reinhardt camps?

What a joke.

Oh, and where are the "ashes" Werd?