Difficulties of revisionism

[wtfhappenedtohess]

There are two main problems with revisionism:
1) The accuracy and authenticity of the message. Some aspects of the holocaust simply fall into the grey area in which there is little evidence for/against a specific technicality. These are impossible to dispprove and just exist.
2) Communication - trying to communicate revisionist point of view is falliable to a variety of problems. People could see it as antisemitic, racist, stupid, insane etc etc.

The model of communication should be based on Paul Rassinier:

- anti-nazi
- neutral
- freedom
- peace

I know there are people who promote revisionism with ultierior motives, and this is completely bias.

objectivity is key to understanding

[Hannover]

It takes only one person with passion with a desire to really get this message out there.

So when do you start work on your film/video?

- Hannover

[Hektor]

You mean we should try this kind of approach?



Seriously I do understand what you mean. One first needs to melt the ice or unfreeze the Holocaust believer, before one can even reason with him.

By the way I think there are Videos that go into the direction you are suggesting:
http://www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com/

...So when do you start work on your film/video?...

I already sketched the first scene for him, Hannover.

[Barrington James]

Very good points however Revisionism is not believed by the vast majority of people in America, not because we are not good at communicating the truth but that the communicating methods of the believers are so slick, so brutal, and so evil. One such Spielberg movie, for example, can convince tens of millions of people of the holocaust lies, whereas even the Cole videos, for example, which are so good, so honest and truthful, are viewed by only hundreds of people, most of whom are probably already deniers. However that is only part of the problem.

Our education systems, Hollywood, our politicians and of course the press have all been taken over by the very people who benefit so much from the holocaust and war myths.

They are also the very people who write the laws that send the deniers to jail for telling the truth. This makes for a tough battle for the truth.

All we can hope for is to continue to try to tell the truth to the masses and hope, given enough rope, the banks, the Zionist and the industrialist who create these wars and perpetuate their lies and benefit from wars will eventually hang themselves.

It has taken a long time but it seems to me there is an ever growing number of people who are starting to question the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, the war against the Palestinians, and even the war on Wall Street, just to name a few of the many wars going on today. Hopefully our truth can stop the soon to be war in Iran.

All we can do is to try to make this world a better place one truth at a time

[IlluSionS667]

When people sympathise with those poor poor Jews and they hate those evil evil nazis, how do you expect to use emotion in favor of the Holocaust revisionist point? I've tried to make people understand that the official point of view is at least as offensive to SS-men and their family than Holocaust Revisionism might be to a Jew, but the response is little different from when I use mere logical arguments. As long as the media teaches people to hate national-socialism with all their hearts, neither an emotional nor a logical argument is useful. They just call you a nazi and then ignore whatever you have to say.

[wtfhappenedtohess]

people are more emotional than logical, i think that could be a fact.

[wtfhappenedtohess]

you can't blame people for being human.

[PotPie]

Emotion is for propgandists and fiction writers. Hence, the holocaust industry uses lots of it. When its used outside of entertainment, you can bet you're being manipulated.

Revisionism is growing by leaps and bounds due to the internet. I never would have become one were it not for my buying my first computer system in 2001. The kind of monstrous attack Israel is leveling against her neighbors in recent years is only helping move public opinion to where asking such questions is more socially acceptable.

The only things these people have to stop holocaust revisionism is the Jewish media propaganda machine and Jewish influence in government. Without all this Jewish influence peddling, the dam breaks.

If the holocaust were true, they wouldn't need to rely so heavily on eyewitness accounts, especially the accounts of so many claimed eyewitnesses whose stories are so full of holes and such a high percentage of whom are outright fraud witnesses. When you dig into the sources of the story, its pretty shocking in a sense. People are automatically suspicious of the claims of Communist governments except in the case of the holocaust; then the claims of Communist governments are held as Gospel. All the claimed gassing centers are in former Communist countries, all the "investigations" of these centers were done by Communist authorities, all the compiled population statistics of Jewish dead were done by Communists. Only someone born yesterday -- or perhaps with an agenda -- would blindly accept such sources.

[wtfhappenedtohess]

What I'm talking about doesn't singularly apply to the Holocaust alone. It applies to a broad spectrum of topics which are in the public's eye.

People need to be more conscious of the media and how they are being manipulated. The olden days of presenting fact and logic are over. Communication is heavily manipulated though the exploitation of human emotions such as fear. Exploiting emotions is an effective way to keep reason and logic at bay. Exploiting emotions is a great way to scare the public into doing things that the Government want (Iraq war, WMD, corporate bailouts, terrorism, civil liberties).

"The rise of Iran"

Iran is a current example of how manipulative the media can be. If you asked your average American what they thought about the Iran, they'd simply regurgitate what they've been told from the media. Although they might think they came up with this answer independently in their own mind, they didn't. The exact image and words they say about the Iranian leader is exactly what the propagandists want them to think. From a general inference I think it would be accurate to say the majority of the population would think of Iran as:
- An imminent threat
- Axis of Evil
- Wants to obtain nuclear weapons and use them aggressively
- A rogue nation that wants to destroy American liberty.

They communicate this message with heavy use of emotional string pulling. Evil, fear, nuclear, terrorist, violent, threatening.

Of course, to the logical and conscious mind, these statements and descriptions of Iran are completely false and misleading. You can only get the REAL UNFILTERED MESSAGE by listening to the guy speak yourself. Listen to what he has to say himself. Don't build your perception of him on what Fox News has to say about him. That means you are being filter-fed information. Information which can partly be omitted, minimized or be overwhelmingly exaggerated. The media can make a mouse turn into a ferocious T-Rex through through carefully selected words and images. Try to minimize the filters by obtaining various news sources. CNN, FOX, NBC are seriously the worst.

Your aim should be to get as much neutral and unbiased information as possible to make a conclusion YOURSELF, based on the information YOU RECEIVED. It is not about right and wrong, its about getting as much unbias information as possible to make a rational and well-judged conclusion.

Iran is just one example.

There are hundreds of pressing issues right now which are being spun.

But to summarise, people to need to be wary of the media. You cannot trust the media to give you an honest and unbiased view on things anymore.

The public are often filter-fed propaganda through emotional exploitation and fear.


The holocaust revisionist movement cannot fight its cause with pure logic alone. That is what it is presently doing and it is constantly being buried under a tidal wave of emotional propaganda.

[wtfhappenedtohess]

As humans, we are prone to emotional dealings. There is also the embedded fact that people are unique and bring alot of individuality to the communication process.

[IlluSionS667]

Zeitgest the movie brought up CRAZY points such as:
- Jesus didn't exist
- All wars were started by bankers
- The government killed its own people in 9/11
- NWO controls the world

To your average Joe these would be ABSURD points to logically tell someone, but Zeitgiest communicated them on a logical and entertaining basis , thus he got his message across extremely effectively. He used fear and suspense to get his message across. He entertained his audience.

Many intellectuals are very much aware of the fact that most religion is bunk, that 9/11 is at least fishy and the world is run by powerful bankers and industrialists. Zeitgeist merely adds arguments to their suspicions.

When you mention these same intellectuals that they may have been lied to about the Holocaust, they start shouting at you and tell you how sad and dangerous they think it is for an intelligent person to believe such nonsense. Questioning the Holocaust has become the greatest taboo of the modern age. With the most beautiful music and the most spectacular graphics, you can't fight a taboo that strong.

[KostasL]

Hello,

The problem with 'holocaust-revisionism' is communication.

Effective communication is composed of emotion and logic.

To the masses, as it stands now, holocaust-revisionism/denial is looked upon as a completely insane fringe group. People think the rational behind "Holocaust Denial" is the same as the people who think the sky is purple. Holocaust denial is dismissed as insane before it is even delved into. The true irony behind this is that the whole Holocaust event is like a block of swiss cheeze, cheeze with lots of holes and parts missing.

You cannot communicate the Holocaust-Revisionist side without emotionally engaging the audience.

Pure facts, numbers, transcripts will not cut it alone. To the perfectly logical mind it is fine, but to engage the majority of the public you need to intertwine emotion and entertainment.

At the forefront of problems for "Holocaust revisionism" is the fact that, NOT a single internet video exists which engages the audience on both a logical and emotional side. .

Unfortunately, to communicate the message, videos such as "One Third of the Holocaust" purely operate on a logical basis only. The documentary itself is great, but it unfortunately fails on a mass-communication scale. The director brings up a great number of points, facts and passages. However it is 4 hours long and doesn't really engage any emotional aspects. It needs to be more entertaining.


Currently, Holocaust Revisionism's progress hasn't really taken off.

The most optimistic aspect of this movement is that so much factual evidence exists against the traditional mainstream account.


Now, if anyone here is really passionate about the revisionist movement and wants to see it succeed on the most astronomical of scales they need to create a new video production.

Here are some guidelines to making a really entertaining documentary:

(1) [Logic] Firstly, collaborate, condense and list every single factual point that disputes the official story. Find the most devastating evidence against the original story and make a nice list. Ie. chemical tests, facts and numbers, auchwitz rebuilt, maps, treblinka ground surveys etc etc Have your biggest and best points. This will become the meat of the production. This will provide the rational and logic for the audience.

(2) [Emotion & Entertainment] . Now that you've established the logical basis of the documentary it's time to make sure the audience is entertained and engages. Here I am talking about intertwining short but evocative video clips and emotionally engaging pictures. Eg. videos of war, people crying, death, sorrow, decay, pain, planes, destruction, etc etc. These should be spread out throughout the documentary with relevance. There primary aim is to provide visual stimuli to keep the audience engaged and entertained. This is really important. You cannot expect your average Joe to sit down and be flooded endlessly with facts and numbers. He will get bored and disengage. These images and video clips maintain the attention and keeps the audience from leaving their chairs.
Secondly, music. Music is really really important in setting the atmosphere and tone. It provides the environment for the audience. If you are dishing out suspenseful and powerful facts you could use suspenseful music. Music playing in the background whilst the narrator is speaking, sets a really good atmosphere which provides engaging audio stimuli for the audience. If you are displaying pictures of war or emotionally engaging clips you could play sad and sorrowful music. Examples: suspense http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dmPchuXIXQ ...... sorrow : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYX9TpArjOs
Narration, generally it helps if you have a deep serious voice. An example would be http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dmPchuXIXQ. The guy who narrated one third of the holocaust also has a good voice for narration.


Summary:

The average person on the street thinks holocaust denial is completely insane.
Not many people on the street would even bother sifting through the facts and figures to find the truth behind an insane conspiracy theory. Your average person however, does have the need for entertainment. Internet videos and documentaries are becoming insanely popular and effective. People watch internet videos for entertainment.

A great example to model this task on is Zeitgest. Zeitgeist is an internet documentary that communicated extremely confronting facts to the masses. Zeitgeist communicated its message through a combination of logic and emotion.The bottom line was Zeitgeist was so successful because it was entertaining and it engaged its audience. It used evocative words, powerful pictures and excellent use of video clips to convey its message and simultaneously engage its audience.

This community has the possibility of communicating its message to the public on a massive scale through the internet. It only takes one person with enough passion and desire to spark this. One person who takes the time to make a logical and emotionally engaging documentary on the subject that would entertain the masses.

It takes only one person with passion with a desire to really get this message out there.

Give Revisionists their own "Schindler's List" and then they shall work wonders. That's true.

Then the seed shall be planted in people's hearts and minds. They will wake up and be asking questions and willing to hear and see more...

Unfortunately Spielberg is not a revisionist.

It still is a few individuals against powerful industries of trillions of dollars and millions of staff.

But we stand by the Truth. And if i speak the Truth it does not matter if I stand alone amongst millions or billions. Because Truth is powerful and each word of mine is a powerful spell.

The DenierBuddy behind the OneThirdOfTheHolocaust (and some other videos too) made a magnificent job, very much valuable for all. We must be grateful.

We need more of this kind of work.

[ASMarques]

Questioning the Holocaust has become the greatest taboo of the modern age. With the most beautiful music and the most spectacular graphics, you can't fight a taboo that strong.

I agree with what Wtfhappenedtohess has been saying, in the sense of what would be desirable, though not so easy to achieve, as the familiar Hannoverian "I'm wainting for you to do it!" ranting (justifiable, given his notable efforts for the cause) reminds us.

I also agree with IlluSionS667 on the shortcomings of beautiful music and spectacular graphics against the greatest taboo of the modern age. Just to remind you that, whenever the hardcore resources and the patient logical work are at an end, and the trumpets of war make their strident call heard, and the ravens start circling above the field, the best weapon may consist in a judicious use of humor. In particular, over the Internet, the golden rule of debate, as far as I'm concerned, is "never show the slightest irritation, while always trying to irritate your opponents by bringing ridicule to their arguments in a friendly fashion."

I've also noticed the odd fact that people who would probably faint or foam at the corners of the mouth at the sudden advance of something like Rudolf's Report in a missionary spirit, will actually laugh themselves out of part of their preconceptions if you confront them with a couple of well-chosen revisionist cartoons or ridiculous survivor stories. They then become easier targets for the temptations of reasoning, as if the rather irrational phenomenon of laughter had lowered their threshold of tolerance.

Perhaps an anthology of ridiculous survivor stories might be a good idea...

[MrNobody]

The holocaust revisionist movement cannot fight its cause with pure logic alone. That is what it is presently doing and it is constantly being buried under a tidal wave of emotional propaganda.

Truth, Emotional Manipulation & Propaganda cannot belong in the same sentence, it's unethical & a slap in the face for all the great Revisionists that have come before us & it shits on their Reasoned, Logical & scientific work.

the Myth Makers Control the World's Media Apparatus, it's pointless & far too late to try & play "catch up".

It is about historical evidence, not about emotions...

I'm with Bishop Williamson on this one.

Do you seriously believe Revisionists are the only ones visiting this site?

Your statements are just giving them Ammunition, If Revisionism went down the path you're advocating it'd be mere seconds before the Myth Maker's Planet wide Emotionally Manipulating Propaganda Machine started cranking out selected excerpts & slander, only this time there'd actually be a nugget of truth to it.

Personally I couldn't associate myself with Revisionism knowing I was Promoting the practice & actively Manipulating people Emotionally in the name of "Truth", it's abhorrent.

[diaz52]

Humor is a great way to poke holes in the hot-air balloon of doctrine, orthodoxy and self-importance. And it makes otherwise scholarly material more entertaining for people to consume. This is one reason why I like David Cole's video and the One Third of the Holocaust videos, both subtly use some humor to make their points, and I would like to see more of that. Nothing cuts through B.S. and self-importance than humor, the Jews have always understood this, and have traditionally used humor as a means of social commentary on the larger gentile host cultures in which they've lived. Theres a lot to laugh at, with regard to these nonsensical holohoax stories. A lot of it is just plain idiotic and ridiculous, and its just screaming for ridicule- the idiot barbar Bamba in the "One Third" and his ridiculous story- and the way his B.S. story is taken so seriously by those hes speaking to, makes it all the more funny. That moron and his stories are just aching for ridicule... We need to make use of humor in our presentation of information to the masses, if they are ever going to bother to consume the revisionist material- sadly in our days of 200 TV channels and peoples' entertainment oriented lives, thats just the way it is.