Allied 'evidence' manipulation at Dachau

[hermod]

I recall Jerzy Potocki. And I think it is worthwhile investigating him and what he wrote and said further. What he said will however be dismissed by adherents of the Holocult. Simply because he is a Pole and hence genetically predisposed to Anti-Semitism. Yes, this is a subtext in debates. Because you have German, Polish or whatever ancestors you can be disqualified out of hand. I'd guess lots of Americans have German, Polish, etc. ancestry... So do many Europeans. In South Africa virtually all Afrikaans-speaking Whites DO HAVE some German ancestry and many of the others as well. I also met some Poles here during my studies. And they were interested about WW2 as well. I asked them about the Jews. The Pole said that he couldn't give an answer due to him not knowing them personally, but what he heard about them 'wasn't very good'. So there is of course a pretext with Poles about Jews, but doesn't that relate to their previous experiences with them (as a group)?

With the Germans it was a bit different. Prior to WW2 most (rural) Germans won't know a lot about them anyway. Jews were concentrated in some areas usually urban to metropolitan. Although some country sides had them as well. e.g. as cattle traders, but also as loan sharks. They were also seen differently as a cattle trader was indeed useful at times. They had to be a bit more careful with their sellers/buyers since bad business practices could backfire there. The high mobility is however an incentive to drop 'good business practices', since once you have the name of being a scoundrel, you simply move to elsewhere.

I don't there's a lot of interesting stuff about Potocki and wartime Holohoax atrocity propaganda because I remember that he dismissed as forgeries the embarrassing diplomatic documents found by the Germans when they captured Warsaw in 1939. It was later demonstrated that those documents were 100% genuine, but lying about your country's enemies is always regarded as patriotic during wars. So it's very likely that Potocki just told lies about the Germans at every opportunity between 1939 and 1945.

Don't the people who believe that Germans and Poles are genetically predisposed to anti-Semitism, know that Jews were regarded by most of the peoples in the world as genetically predisposed to lying? Who could unconditionally believe the Holocaust stories told by a people with such a reputation? And if anti-Semitic feelings make people unreliable, what do the Zionist feelings of most antirevisionist historians tell about their works on the Holocaust (given the fact that the Holocaust is undeniably very often used as carte blanche for the dispossession of the Palestinian people)? Are there good biases and bad biases?

What I wonder is how Americans did react to that kind of movies, atrocity articles, rallies, etc. During War Time it should be clear that what they get shown is hardly based on first hand information and that the government would have an ulterior motive on what they published about their enemy. But people tend to go for the 'golden mean'-fallacy. So if a government report said "They killed a 1000"... they'd say, "perhaps not a thousand, perhaps it's a 500 or perhaps even less"... That this is pure thumb-sucking or deception most won't be ready to outrightly admit. After all. They could not prove that it is untrue. And don't all the Newspapers say that? "They can't be all lying at once, can they"?.
And of course people tend to think that they are smarter than they really are: "If they'd ly to me, I'd immediately have noticed that". So their own overestimation of themselves gets into the way of reasonability there. I've noticed that over and over again. Not only in connection with Holocaust and World War Two.

The "truth is in the middle" thing (argumentum ad temperantiam) is most of time pure laziness and cowardice. Saddam Hussein had no weapons of semimass destruction in 2003. And Kaiser Wilhelm II didn't turn the corpses of half his fallen soldiers into soap and explosive during WWI. Both stories were 100% a lie.

[Hektor]

I recall Jerzy Potocki. And I think it is worthwhile investigating him and what he wrote and said further. What he said will however be dismissed by adherents of the Holocult..... The high mobility is however an incentive to drop 'good business practices', since once you have the name of being a scoundrel, you simply move to elsewhere.

I don't there's a lot of interesting stuff about Potocki and wartime Holohoax atrocity propaganda because I remember that he dismissed as forgeries the embarrassing diplomatic documents found by the Germans when they captured Warsaw in 1939. It was later demonstrated that those documents were 100% genuine, but lying about your country's enemies is always regarded as patriotic during wars. So it's very likely that Potocki just told lies about the Germans at every opportunity between 1939 and 1945.

Of course, but Poles are usually bad liars, as are Germans... At least in my experience, but from reading I learned that I'm not alone with this perception. Poles might be slightly better at it, the thing is they tend to turn stories into the ridiculous after a while. Most lies are told as matter of embarrassment. "White Lies", if you want to avoid problems or conflicts. While that often works for a while, it tends to cause more problems later.

There is however also another caliber of liars. Different ball park. They do lie in a premediated way. So they plan how to do that long before they strike. And in this they will spent quite some effort in gathering facts before hand as to use them in their like. They tell/show you 100 facts to insert a substantial lie in this. If their text is tested, people than notice that at least a lot of it is verifiably true and than jump to the conclusion that "ALL" is true, which is a logical fallacy. The problem with fallacies is that they have some appearance of logic, which makes them deceiving and potentially a way to pass on falsehood.

Don't the people who believe that Germans and Poles are genetically predisposed to anti-Semitism, know that Jews were regarded by most of the peoples in the world as genetically predisposed to lying? Who could unconditionally believe the Holocaust stories told by a people with such a reputation? And if anti-Semitic feelings make people unreliable, what do the Zionist feelings of most antirevisionist historians tell about their works on the Holocaust (given the fact that the Holocaust is undeniably very often used as carte blanche for the dispossession of the Palestinian people)? Are there good biases and bad biases?

In fact that perception exists for at least 100s of years.
In fact the New Testament contains a substantial amount of jabs at Jews (Judaists if you want). The Old Testament engages frequently in the same although the Jews only appear later there as a group descending from the Israelites. Those former also get some beatings there. That's why I frequently point out to people that this ain't exactly a 'Hebrew Hagiography'. Which is quite unusual. Usually antique text tend to elevate and exalt a group into the fantastic the realm. They are very boastful, so is the art. Of course the text also dishes out at other, tribes, races, nations. Essentially it is a work of 'equal opportunity racism'. The NT makes it quite clear that it considers sin the cause of human wickedness and that people (often) act in blindness. But there is also a lust for wickedness that can overcome people. Usually that is regulated by culture, but the culture is always imperfect and if it gets corroded, the wickedness will grow substantially. The first examples in the OT seem to be the Sodomites and Canaanites. The Sodomites (except Lot and his clan) were destroyed by fire, while the Israelites are commanded to exterminate the Canaanites... For the very reason that they were pedophiles, zoophiles, homosexuals, child-sacrifices, etc. Many Christians get nervous, when I point this out to them and they start looking for excuses like "It's the OT" or "today everything is love". But one can notice there unbelieve.

Another funny thing is of course that this is probably the first genocide ever documented thoroughly. I wonder, if I should bring this up when the Causties tell me that "The Holocaust is the best documented Genocide in Human History".

And well, then there is the issue of Jews engaging in the promotion of the mentioned vices above. What is the goal there? Money of course. But is it only about the money? Isn't it that people given to vice, can be manipulated and controlled more easily than those more virtuous?

What I wonder is how Americans did react to that kind of movies, atrocity articles, rallies, etc. During War Time it should be clear that what they get shown is hardly based on first hand information and that the government would have an ulterior motive on what they published about their enemy. ....mation of themselves gets into the way of reasonability there. I've noticed that over and over again. Not only in connection with Holocaust and World War Two.

The "truth is in the middle" thing (argumentum ad temperantiam) is most of time pure laziness and cowardice. Saddam Hussein had no weapons of semimass destruction in 2003. And Kaiser Wilhelm II didn't turn the corpses of half his fallen soldiers into soap and explosive during WWI. Both stories were 100% a lie.

It's a donkey-bridge that is often useful. It's based on the presumption that people are 'basically honest' but tend to exaggerate, when something excites them. That there are stories that are 'complete inventions' people ignore. What makes debating the Holo. a bit difficult is that there are of course camps, crema, hygiene facilities etc. And there is also prisoner mortality. But the core issues are here:
* Intend to 'exterminate' the prisoners.
* special facilities to do so (homicidal gas chambers)

I presume there was some neglect from the camp authorities and bureaucracy. Something that isn't exactly a surprise considering how lots of the civil service sector works. But if there was intend, why were there millions of survivors?
The 'gassing stories' are better explained by camp rumors induced by Allied Broadcasts. The facilities claimed to have been homicidal gas chambers have been tampered with. But the best explanation for them is them being installed for health care reasons. Gas against lice, showers for body hygiene., crematoria being the most efficient way to get rid of corpses, while protecting the ground water. This was necessary for there being epidemics and other health issues.
Well and then there were quarantine areas in the camps as well. So people that appeared sick were separated from those considered healthy. So there was interest in keeping people alive. And this includes those unfit for work children/elderly. I mean the photos of children taken by Soviets demonstrate this to good. And there is also lots of photos of healthy, well fed prisoners. So the evidence contradicts the thesis. The evidence for 'dead people' does not support the extermination thesis. To the contrary it supports the thesis that food supply and healthcare were heavily disturbed in the period before the Wehrmacht capitulated.

[hermod]

Of course, but Poles are usually bad liars, as are Germans... At least in my experience, but from reading I learned that I'm not alone with this perception. Poles might be slightly better at it, the thing is they tend to turn stories into the ridiculous after a while. Most lies are told as matter of embarrassment. "White Lies", if you want to avoid problems or conflicts. While that often works for a while, it tends to cause more problems later.

Potocki didn't need to be a good liar for that. He probably just kept silent about the the Holohoax agitprop in America during WWII or he merely reported it to his government. But who knows? There's perhaps something interesting in his wartime reports.

There is however also another caliber of liars. Different ball park. They do lie in a premediated way. So they plan how to do that long before they strike. And in this they will spent quite some effort in gathering facts before hand as to use them in their like. They tell/show you 100 facts to insert a substantial lie in this. If their text is tested, people than notice that at least a lot of it is verifiably true and than jump to the conclusion that "ALL" is true, which is a logical fallacy. The problem with fallacies is that they have some appearance of logic, which makes them deceiving and potentially a way to pass on falsehood.

Sounds like a lesson on the art of lying from the Zohar...

In fact that perception exists for at least 100s of years.
In fact the New Testament contains a substantial amount of jabs at Jews (Judaists if you want). The Old Testament engages frequently in the same although the Jews only appear later there as a group descending from the Israelites. Those former also get some beatings there. That's why I frequently point out to people that this ain't exactly a 'Hebrew Hagiography'. Which is quite unusual. Usually antique text tend to elevate and exalt a group into the fantastic the realm. They are very boastful, so is the art. Of course the text also dishes out at other, tribes, races, nations. Essentially it is a work of 'equal opportunity racism'. The NT makes it quite clear that it considers sin the cause of human wickedness and that people (often) act in blindness. But there is also a lust for wickedness that can overcome people. Usually that is regulated by culture, but the culture is always imperfect and if it gets corroded, the wickedness will grow substantially. The first examples in the OT seem to be the Sodomites and Canaanites. The Sodomites (except Lot and his clan) were destroyed by fire, while the Israelites are commanded to exterminate the Canaanites... For the very reason that they were pedophiles, zoophiles, homosexuals, child-sacrifices, etc. Many Christians get nervous, when I point this out to them and they start looking for excuses like "It's the OT" or "today everything is love". But one can notice there unbelieve.

Another funny thing is of course that this is probably the first genocide ever documented thoroughly. I wonder, if I should bring this up when the Causties tell me that "The Holocaust is the best documented Genocide in Human History".

You could also tell them that, with hundreds of trials in many countries and during several centuries, the so-called "blood libel" was more proved than the Holocaust but that it's nevertheless still called "an antisemitic canard" on Wikipedia.

It's a donkey-bridge that is often useful. It's based on the presumption that people are 'basically honest' but tend to exaggerate, when something excites them. That there are stories that are 'complete inventions' people ignore.

That was the meaning of the big lie technique explained by Hitler in Mein Kampf, which is most often dishonestly blamed on himself while he was just explaining how Jews and Marxists deceive gullible people.

https://postimg.cc/qtPcv9SR

https://postimg.cc/Zv681V5Q

What makes debating the Holo. a bit difficult is that there are of course camps, crema, hygiene facilities etc. And there is also prisoner mortality. But the core issues are here:
* Intend to 'exterminate' the prisoners.
* special facilities to do so (homicidal gas chambers)

I presume there was some neglect from the camp authorities and bureaucracy. Something that isn't exactly a surprise considering how lots of the civil service sector works. But if there was intend, why were there millions of survivors?
The 'gassing stories' are better explained by camp rumors induced by Allied Broadcasts. The facilities claimed to have been homicidal gas chambers have been tampered with. But the best explanation for them is them being installed for health care reasons. Gas against lice, showers for body hygiene., crematoria being the most efficient way to get rid of corpses, while protecting the ground water. This was necessary for there being epidemics and other health issues.
Well and then there were quarantine areas in the camps as well. So people that appeared sick were separated from those considered healthy. So there was interest in keeping people alive. And this includes those unfit for work children/elderly. I mean the photos of children taken by Soviets demonstrate this to good. And there is also lots of photos of healthy, well fed prisoners. So the evidence contradicts the thesis. The evidence for 'dead people' does not support the extermination thesis. To the contrary it supports the thesis that food supply and healthcare were heavily disturbed in the period before the Wehrmacht capitulated.

Ironically, the hygiene facilities of the Nazi camps were a copy of the American hygiene facilities used at the US-Mexico border during WWI.

https://postimg.cc/q62x8ks3

https://postimg.cc/Hjt2sLkq

https://postimg.cc/1f72TfJX

https://postimg.cc/LnC3L0fv

[Hektor]

Of course, but Poles are usually bad liars, as are Germans... At least in my experience, but from reading I learned that I'm not alone with this perception. Poles might be slightly better at it, the thing is they tend to turn stories into the ridiculous after a while. Most lies are told as matter of embarrassment. "White Lies", if you want to avoid problems or conflicts. While that often works for a while, it tends to cause more problems later.

Potocki didn't need to be a good liar for that. He probably just kept silent about the the Holohoax agitprop in America during WWII or he merely reported it to his government. But who knows? There's perhaps something interesting in his wartime reports.
....

What he tells sounds anecdotal. That Jews and Golems were railing against Germany, "Nazis", Hitler, etc. can be learned from contemporary media there as well. So it is at least plausible what he tells. Then there is an issue with the Roosevelt Administration as well. Brain Trust, etc. One needs to have a closer look at them, too.


The irony is that Roosevelt did try to do something similar than Hitler. They called it the "New Deal". But that actually flopped tremendously. To be Great, Roosevelt needed a war. And it is actually the war that made him famous. I think this can be shown from surveys. Just check how many people know what President of the US. They may know Washington, Lincoln and perhaps the present one. But the others will be rather unknown. Roosevelt will be however better known than the others. Perhaps only Kennedy is better known.

[hermod]

Potocki didn't need to be a good liar for that. He probably just kept silent about the the Holohoax agitprop in America during WWII or he merely reported it to his government. But who knows? There's perhaps something interesting in his wartime reports.
....

What he tells sounds anecdotal. That Jews and Golems were railing against Germany, "Nazis", Hitler, etc. can be learned from contemporary media there as well. So it is at least plausible what he tells. Then there is an issue with the Roosevelt Administration as well. Brain Trust, etc. One needs to have a closer look at them, too.

Nobody is surprised that the Jews of America were railing against Nazi Germany. But very few people know that the German concentration camps had been singled out for atrocity propaganda when there were very few inmates (less than 10,000 --- out of a population of 80 million people --- between Christmas 1933 and Kristallnacht ) held in there and when those places were not littered with emaciated dead bodies generated by Allied bombings.

https://postimg.cc/dLvVh6bj

https://postimg.cc/wR3dHMft

[Hieldner]

Translation of an article in Vierteljahreshefte für freie Geschichtsforschung 1(4) (1997), pp. 263f (https://vho.org/VffG/1997/4/Anonymus4.html), by an anonymous author who says he visited Auschwitz during the war and witnessed a train filled with emaciated German soldiers near Erfurt in mid June 1945 (second half of the article). He says that after the war he was told by former US officers that the corpses of German soldiers such as these were extras for the atrocity movies shown at the Nuremberg trials etc. Of course, I can’t tell if any of this is true, but the late date may be a hint for further exploration of this issue.

The Auschwitz-Birkenau camp in the eyes of a worn-out compatriot

I was a tank soldier, a member of a tank unit of 70 Panthers that was pulled out of Normandy by the invasion front in mid-June 1944 and deployed to the Eastern Front. We blew up the encirclement of Vilna and stopped the advance of the Red Army against East Prussia by countless day and night attacks. We were also in action on the Narew and Vistula bends and also fought off the Russian tank packs that were rolling up against Warsaw (October 1944). By mid-November 1944, my company consisted of only three tanks.

A tank unit then moved into our front section, to which we were then allowed to hand over our three tanks.

For almost six months we were in action day and night. We fought under the worst supply conditions. More than half of our comrades had fallen. The survivors looked totally destitute. They were all skin and bones, their faces were full of wrinkles and their skin was pale and waxy. In addition, we were totally filthy, partly lice-ridden. For months we had been wearing the same sweaty and oily uniforms and underwear. The constant overtiredness had noticeably worn out the nerves of many of us.

We were glad to have survived the countless battles, and happy that we would be able to get a good night's sleep and recover a bit in the next few days.

By truck we left the front section and were driven to Birkenau to the concentration camp. On the way there we saw work crews of concentration campers in brown uniforms, who were expanding defensive positions in the rear. Towards evening we arrived at the Birkenau camp. The camp seemed to be mostly empty and administered only by a number of members of the "Organization Todt" and a larger number of convicts.

We three tank crews were assigned a barrack, but were not allowed to enter it for the time being. Four prisoners were assigned to us as attendants. They led us to the shower barracks. Our uniforms, underwear and blankets had to be deloused first. The attendants were horrified when they saw our filthy clothes.

After the showers we were dusted with disinfectant powder, given new underwear and drill clothes, also two new blankets. Then we were allowed to move into the living barracks; afterwards we went to the canteen barracks to eat.

After six months, to finally be allowed a good hot meal, two warm blankets and to sleep in bed seemed like an incredible fairy tale. After two days we received back our deloused and cleaned uniforms. In the camp there were also various small squads of detached small front-line units.

After three days an SS soldier of sergeant rank appeared, sought us tank soldiers out, and asked us to receive material for his tank unit and bring it to the front.

We were to receive machine guns, machine gun ammunition, smoke signals, blankets and other things in the Auschwitz camp for the combat squadron of SS panzer comrades.

The next day we left for Auschwitz. Much of it was not in stock and we had to wait a few days for it. We quartered ourselves in the visitors' barracks. With our reception order, we visited the material barracks every day and gradually received what we wanted. We also had 50 blankets to receive. They were located in a double-deck barrack.

The barrack had a central aisle, from which there were four-story wooden shelves to the right and left. Part of the shelves were filled with blankets. When I entered the barracks, I saw no one, but from a pile of blankets I heard voices. I made my presence known with a hello. From above, someone asked what I wanted. When I expressed the wish for 50 blankets, I got the answer that I should already count them out and load them up. I replied that it was their job! Thereupon four dark figures climbed from the upper blanket stacks. They had been playing cards upstairs. Leisurely they counted out 50 blankets and loaded them onto our truck.

In between they offered us foreign cigarettes, chewing gum, wafers and wristwatches. We learned that the prisoners were allowed to receive monthly packages through the Red Cross, and that the camp was also regularly inspected by Red Cross commissions. The other day I saw six prisoners drive a small trolley with two bales of hair from the railroad ramp into the camp. During the war, the hairdressers had to sweep up the hair and deliver it, for it was used as raw material to make felt boots. A righteous anger arose in me when I saw the leisurely pace with which the prisoners moved about, fooling around and smoking cigarettes.

I was on combat duty day and night for six months under the greatest strains and privations. Half of my comrades had fallen. Prisoners and other convicts were here having a good time. That seemed unjust and incomprehensible to me. My comrades also expressed their indignation. After three days we had gathered the desired material and drove the things to the armored unit at the front. I had the impression that Auschwitz was a huge supply camp for the Eastern Front, but there were also a number of barracks where production and repairs were carried out.

We also talked to many prisoners, but no one said anything about gassings or even burnings. We left Auschwitz with the unpleasant impression that the prisoners fared much better than the front-line soldiers on daily duty.

A “concentration camp train” near Buchenwald

On June 6, 1945, I had been discharged as a soldier by the Americans and driven from the prison camp near Hof to Weimar as my home town. I stayed there for a time in the family of my comrade. (He belonged to my last tank crew, was a radio operator, was called Rauf).

Since I, as a native of East Prussia, could not go home, I thought of getting work and lodging with a master craftsman in Weimar. During the day, Weimar was populated by concentration campers from Buchenwald. They had marked themselves with a red triangle. I also got into conversation with many of them. They were physically in good shape. During the day they took part in a few hours of political training and had to be back at the camp by 10 p.m. They were expecting to be properly trained. They were expecting proper release papers soon, so that they could file compensation claims later. Among others, I also met E. Thälmann's boy, who had to take care of him. He described to me how Thälmann had been killed in the bombing next to the railroad track. He criticized that the exclusive prisoners had too many special benefits and that they did not need to work.

Since I had a lot of Ami cigarettes, I went to the concentration camp a few times to exchange underwear, shirts and stockings for them with the concentration campers. After a few days, a concentration camp worker reported that the wife of the last camp leader, a beautiful blonde, had been raped countless times for days by the Yank guards when she was a prisoner. Then the legend arose that she had lampshades made from human skin. Other prisoners denied the tale, calling it vile atrocity propaganda.

German auxiliary policemen hired by the Yanks patrolled Weimar. They wore a Wehrmacht uniform dyed dark blue and carried a wooden truncheon as a baton on their belt. I recognized one of the policemen as a resident of my hometown. He had raped little girls and had been sentenced for it. When I addressed him as an acquaintance from my hometown, he denied the origin and pretended not to know me.

I tried to find work in Weimar, unfortunately in vain. Therefore, I decided to go to Erfurt in order to get a job there and to find relatives there. In mid-June 45, it was a sunny day, I hopped on a freight train and headed for Erfurt. The freight train stopped about 1.5 km from the station.

I took my backpack and made my way to the main exit. On a siding there was a freight train with about 20 cattle cars. A sickening stench was wafting from them. Then I saw that hands were fingering out of the ventilation hatches and I heard whining. I crossed some rails and approached the freight train. Then I was spotted by the occupants of the cattle cars and they yelled, "Comrade, water, water!" I reached the train and perceived the awful stench of excrement and corpses. The sliding door and the ventilation hatches were nailed shut with barbed wire. Under the sliding door and from the cracks excrement and urine oozed, which was partly dried. I experienced an unexpected, disgusting helpless situation. In vain I looked around for a hydrant to feed the steam locomotives; there were none. In the wagons they were shouting for water and that they had dead people in them - for many days. I felt completely helpless. Then I took some green apples from my backpack, put them under my uniform jacket and climbed up. uniform jacket and climbed up to a ventilation hatch to push the apples in between the barbed wire.

Suddenly I was yanked down by one U.S. guard, yelled at, and bayoneted by a second. Both posts then maneuvered me to the main exit. Then they let me go. The next night I spent the night with another discharged comrade in a shot-up truck. We sneaked to the railroad yard at night and tried to help the prisoners with an iron bar. But the plan seemed hopeless, because there were double guards with dogs patrolling the prisoner train.

When I was invited to visit New York and Cape May in 1977, I described the concentration camp train near Erfurt to two former US officers. They had been stationed in Heidelberg after the end of the war and knew about it well. They both confirmed that these cattle cars were full of German prisoner soldiers infected with typhus and dysentery. They were extras for Alfred Hitchcock, the horror film specialist. He was commissioned to make concentration camp films for the Nuremberg trial.

The dead were then dumped at night in Buchenwald, Dachau, and other camps more of the half-dead, filmed by Hitchcock as Nazi atrocities. The bodies were also dumped at a barracks in Buchenwald at night and the next day residents of Weimar had to walk past the piles of corpses and notice the sickening stench. This is how it was shown in the film. Afterwards the corpses were buried in mass graves nearby.

This is how the two ex-US officers explained to me the purpose and meaning of this concentration camp train of June 16, 1945.

One of the U.S. officers was named Williams Allison, 124-10, 115th Avenue, South Ozone Park, 1140 New York. He was employed by Pan American Airlines. When he became a retiree, he moved to Cap May.

I hereby declare that my account of my experiences truthfully contains what I myself saw, experienced and witnessed.

The name and address of the author have been filed with Vrij Historisch Onderzoek, Postbus 46, B-2600 Berchem 1, Flanders (Belgium).

[Hektor]

Potocki didn't need to be a good liar for that. He probably just kept silent about the the Holohoax agitprop in America during WWII or he merely reported it to his government. But who knows? There's perhaps something interesting in his wartime reports.
....

What he tells sounds anecdotal. That Jews and Golems were railing against Germany, "Nazis", Hitler, etc. can be learned from contemporary media there as well. So it is at least plausible what he tells. Then there is an issue with the Roosevelt Administration as well. Brain Trust, etc. One needs to have a closer look at them, too.

Nobody is surprised that the Jews of America were railing against Nazi Germany. But very few people know that the German concentration camps had been singled out for atrocity propaganda when there were very few inmates (less than 10,000 --- out of a population of 80 million people --- between Christmas 1933 and Kristallnacht ) held in there and when those places were not littered with emaciated dead bodies generated by Allied bombings.
....

That is indeed a bit odd. On the other hand it all depends on how much foresight you have. If you want to plunge a country into war and count on them fighting to the end... You can expect several things:
1.) That they will expand their prison system during the war.
2.) That concentration camp systems are the most efficient way to that.
3.) That Jews/ hostiles would be interned
4.) That the conditions in the camps would decline the longer the war goes and the less favorable the conditions will be for Germany/Axis.
5.) Subsequently you can be guaranteed to find piles of corpses in those camps, especially when large portions of the infrastructure of Germany were destroyed - Deliberately to increase starvation it seems.

So the outcomes were not entirely unpredictable. There was a 50/50 of course. That's when the war took a totally other turn, but it didn't.
There were also direct advantages of that smear campaign against NS/Germany/Axis. Which should actually be self-evident, when people are at war.

[hermod]

That is indeed a bit odd. On the other hand it all depends on how much foresight you have. If you want to plunge a country into war and count on them fighting to the end... You can expect several things:
1.) That they will expand their prison system during the war.
2.) That concentration camp systems are the most efficient way to that.
3.) That Jews/ hostiles would be interned
4.) That the conditions in the camps would decline the longer the war goes and the less favorable the conditions will be for Germany/Axis.
5.) Subsequently you can be guaranteed to find piles of corpses in those camps, especially when large portions of the infrastructure of Germany were destroyed - Deliberately to increase starvation it seems.

So the outcomes were not entirely unpredictable. There was a 50/50 of course. That's when the war took a totally other turn, but it didn't.
There were also direct advantages of that smear campaign against NS/Germany/Axis. Which should actually be self-evident, when people are at war.

Anyway the whole narrative had been written several years before WWII broke out. Top Zionist leader Samuel Untermyer said in August 1933:

"The Hitler régime originated are fiendishly prosecuting their boycott to exterminate the Jews by placarding Jewish shops, warning Germans against dealing with them, by imprisoning Jewish shopkeepers and parading them through the streets by the hundreds under guard of Nazi troops for the sole crime of being Jews, by ejecting them from the learned professions in which many of them had attained eminence, by excluding their children from the schools, their men from the labor unions, closing against them every avenue of livelihood, locking them in vile concentration camps, starving and torturing them, murdering and beating them without cause and resorting to every other conceivable form of torture, inhuman beyond conception, until suicide has become their only means of escape, and all solely because they are or their remote ancestors were Jews, and all with the avowed object of exterminating them. [...] When the tale is told, as it will be some day if the impotent League of Nations ever sufficiently awakens from its Rip Van Winkle slumbers to the realization of its power and duty to prosecute an investigation into the facts, the world will confront a picture so fearful in its barbarous cruelty that the hell of war and the alleged Belgian atrocities will pale into insignificance as compared to this devilishly, deliberately, cold-bloodedly planned and already partially executed campaign for the extermination of a proud, gentle, loyal, law-abiding people." (The New York Times, August 7, 1933)

Reminder: When Untermyer said those words, the only Jews held in German concentration camps were Communist leaders imprisoned for their terrorist activities against the German state.

[Hektor]

That is indeed a bit odd. O.... That's when the war took a totally other turn, but it didn't.
There were also direct advantages of that smear campaign against NS/Germany/Axis. Which should actually be self-evident, when people are at war.

Anyway the whole narrative had been written several years before WWII broke out. Top Zionist leader Samuel Untermyer said in August 1933:

"The Hitler régime originated are fiendishly prosecuting their boycott to exterminate the Jews by placarding Jewish shops, warning Germans against dealing with them, by imprisoning Jewish shopkeepers and parading them through the streets by the hundreds under guard of Nazi troops for the sole crime of being Jews, by ejecting them from the learned professions in which many of them had attained eminence, by excluding their children from the schools, their men from the labor unions, closing against them every avenue of livelihood, locking them in vile concentration camps, starving and torturing them, murdering and beating them without cause and resorting to every other conceivable form of torture, inhuman beyond conception, until suicide has become their only means of escape, and all solely because they are or their remote ancestors were Jews, and all with the avowed object of exterminating them. [...] When the tale is told, as it will be some day if the impotent League of Nations ever sufficiently awakens from its Rip Van Winkle slumbers to the realization of its power and duty to prosecute an investigation into the facts, the world will confront a picture so fearful in its barbarous cruelty that the hell of war and the alleged Belgian atrocities will pale into insignificance as compared to this devilishly, deliberately, cold-bloodedly planned and already partially executed campaign for the extermination of a proud, gentle, loyal, law-abiding people." (The New York Times, August 7, 1933)

Reminder: When Untermyer said those words, the only Jews held in German concentration camps were Communist leaders imprisoned for their terrorist activities against the German state.

Apparently this paid well:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... Untermayer


This started, when Hitler wasn't hardly chancellor.
I confronted Causties with this 'predictive programming' once. They just said that what those Jews said before WW2 was proven true afterwards. Hence they won't care about this. Of course that implied that they saw those Jews like Untermyer, but also folks like Thomas Mann, as prophets. That this was some sort of Salami tactic to frame the Germans (the NSDAP doesn't exist any longer).

That there was a mud campaign that was actually unwarranted at the time Against Germany those folks don't want to see. And it was understood as Anti-German campaign not as Anti-NS campaign at the time. The usual trick was to make as if you attack the politicians and then actually strike at the people. In reverse you then get the politicians striking at the Jews in Germany, which then leads to a 'see I told you' type of scenario.

The Jews (in Germany) were under suspicion for many Germans, but by far not the majority in the early 1930s. It depended on the biographies of the respective Germans of course. Many areas had no to only a few Jews who perhaps had a shop there or worked at companies there. In urban centers and areas were predatory lending took place... this was of course a different matter. People that were preyed upon or witnessed bad business-practices by Jews naturally formed another opinion of them. But when "Jews of the world" blow the war horn against Germany, it gets difficult to argue that 'not Jews are bad'. And as result policy towards Jews will become more hostile over time. But well, this wasn't exactly unasked for. One also doesn't get what they are so upset about. Germans making use of their house right? And at the same time actually assisting Zionist organizations. That wasn't that bad at all. And what about those Jews e.g. in the US that sold German goods? Weren't they damaged by this whole 'boycott' thing. Personally I think a lot of this was posturing in the beginning. But portraying Hitler & Germany as 'a danger of man kind' would create a climate for war already in the 1930s. It of course persisted in the 1940s making peace impossible.

[hermod]

Apparently this paid well:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... Untermayer

Money was his thing. Samuel Untermyer was the chairman of the Keren Hayesod (United Israel Appeal), a major official fundraising organization for the theft of Palestine.

Untermyer also knew how to use money in order to bribe U.S. President Woodrow Wilson and buy Palestine with American body bags.

https://postimg.cc/hQ8fh5k3

https://postimg.cc/t7bP2rx6

This started, when Hitler wasn't hardly chancellor.

And even earlier. Much, much earlier...

20 years (!!!) before Rabbi Stephen Wise
"revealed" the Holocaust, we're told.

https://postimg.cc/cKRtcFsg

I confronted Causties with this 'predictive programming' once. They just said that what those Jews said before WW2 was proven true afterwards. Hence they won't care about this. Of course that implied that they saw those Jews like Untermyer, but also folks like Thomas Mann, as prophets. That this was some sort of Salami tactic to frame the Germans (the NSDAP doesn't exist any longer).

I don't regard it as predictive programming. I regard it as early atrocity propaganda for early propaganda needs. The Zionists didn't need to pressure the British Government to keep the gates of Palestine only in 1945. They needed the very same thing between 1936 and 1939, when the Arabs of Palestine were rioting in order to prevent the seizure of their homeland from taking place. They needed it in the early 1930s, after the British Government had tried to close the gates of Palestine with the Passfield White Paper before backpedalling. They needed it in the 1920s, when a Muslim discontent was growing against Mandatory Palestine. They needed it during WWI (see the book "The First Holocaust"), when they were promoting the Zionist case to be pushed at the postwar so-called peace conference. They needed it between 1897 and 1914, when they were trying to get a massive support for the Zionist scheme from Jewish communities around the world and from the big European Powers of that time. Or in other words, the Zionists always needed and used campaigns of atrocity propaganda about 6 million Jewish martyrs supposed to legitimize the territorial holdup they were trying to perpetrate.

That there was a mud campaign that was actually unwarranted at the time Against Germany those folks don't want to see. And it was understood as Anti-German campaign not as Anti-NS campaign at the time. The usual trick was to make as if you attack the politicians and then actually strike at the people. In reverse you then get the politicians striking at the Jews in Germany, which then leads to a 'see I told you' type of scenario.

The Jews (in Germany) were under suspicion for many Germans, but by far not the majority in the early 1930s. It depended on the biographies of the respective Germans of course. Many areas had no to only a few Jews who perhaps had a shop there or worked at companies there. In urban centers and areas were predatory lending took place... this was of course a different matter. People that were preyed upon or witnessed bad business-practices by Jews naturally formed another opinion of them. But when "Jews of the world" blow the war horn against Germany, it gets difficult to argue that 'not Jews are bad'. And as result policy towards Jews will become more hostile over time. But well, this wasn't exactly unasked for. One also doesn't get what they are so upset about. Germans making use of their house right? And at the same time actually assisting Zionist organizations. That wasn't that bad at all. And what about those Jews e.g. in the US that sold German goods? Weren't they damaged by this whole 'boycott' thing. Personally I think a lot of this was posturing in the beginning. But portraying Hitler & Germany as 'a danger of man kind' would create a climate for war already in the 1930s. It of course persisted in the 1940s making peace impossible.

IMO, that was no posturing. That's why the whole boycott & agitation thing was led by hardcore Zionist Jews such as Samuel Untermyer, Stephen S. Wise and Vladimir Jabotinsky, eager to increase & hasten the National Socialist retaliation against the Jews living in Germany in order to turn the latter into homeless settlers for the colonization of Palestine and to prove the Zionist point that the Jews crucially needed a state of their own without any further delay (and, if possible, before the Arabs of Palestine could close the gates of Palestine again).

[Hektor]

Apparently this paid well:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/arti ... Untermayer

....

That there was a mud campaign that was actually unwarranted at the time Against Germany those folks don't want to see. And it was understood as Anti-German campaign not as Anti-NS campaign at the time. ..... those Jews e.g. in the US that sold German goods? Weren't they damaged by this whole 'boycott' thing. Personally I think a lot of this was posturing in the beginning. But portraying Hitler & Germany as 'a danger of man kind' would create a climate for war already in the 1930s. It of course persisted in the 1940s making peace impossible.

IMO, that was no posturing. That's why the whole boycott & agitation thing was led by hardcore Zionist Jews such as Samuel Untermyer, Stephen S. Wise and Vladimir Jabotinsky, eager to increase & hasten the National Socialist retaliation against the Jews living in Germany in order to turn the latter into homeless settlers for the colonization of Palestine and to prove the Zionist point that the Jews crucially needed a state of their own without any further delay (and, if possible, before the Arabs of Palestine could close the gates of Palestine again).

I think I have to clarify what I mean by posturing here.
The main aim of this wasn't to use economic means to force Germany to be nice to Jews.
It was to leave a mark in the public mind. Create the impression that something 'horrible' was happening in Germany.

There would have been an economics effect, but the strongest effect was political with public opinion. I do however think that greed was stronger than political correctness among Jews at the time. What was potential an issue was that businesses were scared to procure German goods and advertise them as such for fear of Jews and Judeophiles harassing their customers or sabotaging their business in other ways.

I do however know that Jews that emigrated from Germany did start importing German goods elsewhere in the world.

There is indicators for division among Jews on the subject during the 1930s. Simply because the groups varied in interest and well: To many Jews the horror-stories were simply not credible given that they had contacts to Germany themselves.