Father Patrick Desbois' "Holocaust by Bullets"

[Hektor]

....
Talking about quality of evidence, look at the picture in the background:

Found the corresponding picture.

Guess this has been debunked quite often. [/quote]

[MrNobody]

What evidence is there regarding the ethnicity or religion of these people? It seems that mainstreamers jump at every opportunity to declare something "proof of the holocaust" without bothering to qualify it first.

They can map almost the entire Genome (DNA sequence) of Neanderthals that lived 30,000 years ago but the Holocaust promoters can't or won't spare a dime or the time to analyze the ethnicity of a single alleged victim in one of these pits.

What are they hiding?

Scientists in Germany Draft Neanderthal Genome

Scientists report that they have reconstructed the genome of Neanderthals, a human species that was driven to extinction some 30,000 years ago, probably by the first modern humans to enter Europe.

He said at a news conference in Leipzig on Thursday that he now had retrieved usable DNA from six Neanderthals and analyzed 3.7 billion units of DNA. The Neanderthal genome, like that of modern humans, is 3.2 billion units in length. Because many units have been analyzed several times over, and many not at all, Dr. Pääbo can now see about 63 percent of the Neanderthal genome. He will continue to analyze it until he has accumulated the equivalent of 20 Neanderthal genomes, which will allow almost every unit to be accurately known.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/13/science/13neanderthal.html

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

That idiots often write books is no surprise–-but that the most stupid and dishonest lies imaginable are put in front of us with such boldness and apparent conviction is a shock, even to an experienced skeptic as myself. What Father Patrick Desbois has done is more like a circus magic performance where the magician tells his attentive audience that they will now witness elephants dancing–--and then, as if in a deep trance, the audience goes home thoroughly convinced they saw elephants dancing.

Holocaust propaganda has had the same effect. People have been hypnotized ever since before WW2 which in turn allows Desbois to add his own bits of malicious nonsense with impunity. Patrick Desbois with the generous help of Jewish holocaust professionals from USHMM and elsewhere has managed to hypnotize most of the western world.

In the “Foreword” to the book, Paul A. Shapiro–Director, Center for Advanced Holocaust Studies, United States Holocaust Memorial Museum–tells us on page XI:

Through a magical marriage of the evidence–--60-year-old Soviet documents and riveting testimonies taken today, to which Father Desbois has added astonishing ballistic and forensic findings as well–--we are finally able to see clearly. The first 1.5 million victims of the Holocaust did not "disappear” from the face of the earth, or from human consciousness, as the Nazis had hoped. Father Desbois has found the mass graves where the victims lie.

What “astonishing ballistic and forensic findings?” What graves has Desbois found “where the victims lie?” He has in fact found none at all. Are Shapiro and Desbois consciously lying, or simply delusional, or totally insane–--or all of the above?

Ordinary people are simply unprepared to imagine that lies as bold as those of Desbois are even possible–-and yet there they are in Holocaust by Bullets. Why and how could anyone makeup that kind of stuff? What Hitler said about the power of Big Lies in [b]Mein Kampf[/b] was absolutely right. One needs to open one’s eyes wide and look critically, and harshly–--but that takes far too much courage.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

All that Father Patrick Desbois really proves is just how totally i-n-s-a-n-e the holocaust promoters truly are. Desbois failed to find even the smallest bone fragment from even one mass grave or victim of any shootings. He found essentially nothing–--and yet he travels the world insisting he found 800 mass graves! As unbelievable as that may seem, his book proves that. He excuses the total absence of evidence by insisting that ALL of the bodies were exhumed eventually by the Germans and that ALL of the remains were cremated without any residue at all.

Desbois did not work alone. He had the support of Deborah Lipstadt, Yad Vashem and major funding for his project. Desbois’ book is well worth getting just for those sixteen pages of color photos (29 pictures in all) of local village idiots and expended bullet cartridges. He “found" nothing better anywhere.

That idiots also write books is no surprise–-but that the most stupid and dishonest lies imaginable are put in front of us with such boldness and apparent conviction is a shock, even to an experienced skeptic as myself. What Father Patrick Desbois has done is more like a circus magic performance where the magician tells his attentive audience that they will now witness elephants dancing–--and then, as if in a deep trance, the audience goes home thoroughly convinced they saw elephants dancing.

Holocaust propaganda has had the same effect. People have been hypnotized ever since before WW2 which in turn allows Desbois to add his own bits of malicious nonsense with impunity. Patrick Desbois with the generous help of Jewish holocaust professionals from USHMM and elsewhere has managed to hypnotize most of the western world.

In the “Foreword” to the book, Paul A. Shapiro–Director, Center for Advanced Holocaust Studies, United States Holocaust Memorial Museum–tells us on page XI:

Through a magical marriage of the evidence–--60-year-old Soviet documents and riveting testimonies taken today, to which Father Desbois has added astonishing ballistic and forensic findings as well–--we are finally able to see clearly. The first 1.5 million victims of the Holocaust did not "disappear” from the face of the earth, or from human consciousness, as the Nazis had hoped. Father Desbois has found the mass graves where the victims lie.

What “astonishing ballistic and forensic findings?” What graves has Desbois found “where the victims lie?” He has in fact found none at all. Are Shapiro and Desbois consciously lying, or simply delusional, or totally insane–--or all of the above?

Ordinary people are simply unprepared to imagine that lies as bold as those of Desbois are even possible–-and yet there they are in Holocaust by Bullets. Why and how could anyone makeup that kind of stuff? What Hitler said about the power of Big Lies in Mein Kampf was absolutely right. One needs to open one’s eyes wide and look critically, and harshly–--but that takes far too much courage. It is so much easier and safer to simply spout a few clever words and criticize around the edges.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!

[The Warden]

The Desbois book tells us, page 177: "After three weeks, all the graves had been opened. It was impossible to carry out a typical scientific study because we had to respect Jewish law and not move any of the bones. We could therefore only observe what appeared on the surface..."

What evidence is there regarding the ethnicity or religion of these people? It seems that mainstreamers jump at every opportunity to declare something "proof of the holocaust" without bothering to qualify it first.

They can map almost the entire Genome (DNA sequence) of Neanderthals that lived 30,000 years ago but the Holocaust promoters can't or won't spare a dime or the time to analyze the ethnicity of a single alleged victim in one of these pits.

This discussion is the most important as I read this thread.
The Catch-22 of protecting the remains due to their Jewish faith and having to disturb the remains to verify the faith they are supposedly protecting.

Science could make quick work of the remains, determining one way or another whether the remains are Jewish. If the Believers are so certain these are mass graves from the Holocaust era, and they so highly regard the witness testimonies, it would be worth the disturbance to settle the case once and for all. Surely, the story about millions of Jewish deaths outweigh the disturbance of a few scattered remains in order to take samples for research?

Plus, I must reiterate the fact that IF the remains are found to be Jewish by reputable science, not only does it not prove they were murdered as the story line proclaims, but it in no way proves who put them there or for what reason.

This thread truly opens questions that Desbois and the Industry cannot answer, and because they can't answer them, they must, at all costs, hide behind the usual faith excuses while they put more memorials over the digs to prevent anyone who isn't bound by those faith loyalties from settling the discussion once and for all.

[Mass Grave Survivor]

Why do I repeatedly hear this claim of "no mass graves"? Clearly there are mass graves. The question is what the threshold would be for the revisionists to believe that there are enough to support the Einsatzgruppen story.

I recommend we start looking on a case-by-case basis. I nominate Serniki to begin.

[Clem]

Mass Grave Survivor

Clearly there are mass graves.

That's what they said about the nonexistant mass graves at Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka. And I fell for that "logic" for those fraudulently alleged 54 "graves."

Then I learned the truth

It is a historical fact that not one grave that contains so much as - 1 / 1,000 of 1 % - of the alleged buried bodies has ever been located / proven to exist at any of the four sites - NOT ONE!

So I do not buy the "clearly there are mass graves" crap.

If they are so "clear"

then where is the so-called “proof” and what are the names of the forensic experts who have endorsed it?

I used to believe that it was "clear" 4 million Jews were gassed to death at Auschwitz.

There is nothing "clear" about the fraudulent claims made about the Holocaust.

The only thing "clear" is

With modern forensic science / crime scene investigation techniques:

There is no such thing as an undetectable mass grave.

NO GRAVES = NO HOLOCAUST

[Dresden]

Mass Grave Survivor said:

"I recommend we start looking on a case-by-case basis"

I recommend YOU start by providing proof of a mass grave containing:

Thousands, if not tens of thousands of bodies.....
With proof that they were murdered.....
With proof that they were Jews.....
With proof that they were murdered by the Germans, and not the Russians.....
With proof that they were not Partisans, worthy of death by international law.....

And don't forget, Mass Grave Survivor....."claiming" a mass grave, isn't the same as proving a mass grave!

[SevenUp]

Why do I repeatedly hear this claim of "no mass graves"? Clearly there are mass graves. The question is what the threshold would be for the revisionists to believe that there are enough to support the Einsatzgruppen story.

I recommend we start looking on a case-by-case basis. I nominate Serniki to begin.

Yes, there are many mass graves. Believe it or not, there is a mass grave in my backyard. I challenge you to prove there isn't. However, it has not been excavated.

Mass graves that have been excavated are harder to find. Let's see, there's Katyn, and Vinnitsa, for a start, but they contain victims of the NKVD, and they were excavated by the Nazis during war and examined by international teams of forensics experts.

There are no excavated mass graves of holohoax victims.

[The Warden]

Why do I repeatedly hear this claim of "no mass graves"? Clearly there are mass graves.

I believe you're referring to claims of "no mass graves that support the story line".
As SevenUp stated, there's a large difference between random grave sites and proving the graves have anything to do with the claims of the Holocaust.

Hiding behind the "respect the faith" excuse is invalid until they are proven to be Jewish.

And again, dead bodies don't mean murder or implicate anyone in particular.
It's a long road to proving the claims of the Holocaust Industry, which is precisely why they avoid it at all costs.

[Mass Grave Survivor]

Well, then I guess there are two points that bear responding to. The first is the grave(s) in question. As I said above, I recommend beginning with Serniki. Can we agree upon that? The second point is what would constitute proof that the bones are Jewish. I am assuming that you will not demand photographs of circumcised members. However, the ability to prove the 'Jewishness' of bones is a bit of a poser.

If we can agree on the terms of the demonstration, then perhaps we can move forward. I agree that claims of mass graves do not equal mass graves that mass graves themselves do not prove the overall narrative. Therefore, I would go on a grave-by-grave basis and ask, along the way, what would constitute enough proof to establish the overall narrative.

Does that seem fair?

[Hannover]

... I recommend beginning with Serniki. Can we agree upon that? The second point is what would constitute proof that the bones are Jewish.
If we can agree on the terms of the demonstration, then perhaps we can move forward. I agree that claims of mass graves do not equal mass graves that mass graves themselves do not prove the overall narrative. Therefore, I would go on a grave-by-grave basis and ask, along the way, what would constitute enough proof to establish the overall narrative.

Does that seem fair?

Serniki, sure. Indeed, specific threads for each. Seems reasonable to me.

You ask "what would constitute proof that the bones are Jewish? " But that can be returned; 'What would constitute proof that the bones are 'holocaust' bones? If you think they are ''holocaust' bones then please tell us why. The onus is on the accuser. Personally I would want answers to all the points already made in this thread. Hope you read them.

Also, some points I have made in various threads concerning the non-existent 'holocaust' mass graves, whether it be the alleged 'einsatzgruppen' mass graves, or the alleged remains that are claimed at various labor camps, not a single 'holocaust' excavation can be shown.

There is absolutely zero proof that these remains are the result of German actions
There is absolutely zero proof that these remains are Jews.
There is absolutely zero proof that these remains are from the period of German occupation.
There is absolutely zero proof that they are civilians.
There have been numerous mass graves unearthed of communist atrocities, think Katyn for example, which were falsely attributed to the Germans.
There are verifiable mass graves galore which confirm the communist atrocities.

Only with the so called 'holocaust' are all mass graves now 'holocaust' mass graves.

It's commonly stated that a total of 2,000,000 Jews were supposedly shot into massive pits by the einsatzgruppen. So, is that:

- 100 graves of 20,000?
- 200 graves of 10,000?
- 400 graves of 5,000?
- 500 graves of 4,000?
- 1000 graves of 2000?
- 2000 graves of 1000?

- Hannover

[The Warden]

Well, then I guess there are two points that bear responding to. The first is the grave(s) in question. As I said above, I recommend beginning with Serniki. Can we agree upon that? The second point is what would constitute proof that the bones are Jewish. I am assuming that you will not demand photographs of circumcised members. However, the ability to prove the 'Jewishness' of bones is a bit of a poser.

If we can agree on the terms of the demonstration, then perhaps we can move forward. I agree that claims of mass graves do not equal mass graves that mass graves themselves do not prove the overall narrative. Therefore, I would go on a grave-by-grave basis and ask, along the way, what would constitute enough proof to establish the overall narrative.

Does that seem fair?

How about we use the terms used by the Holocaust Industry?

"I said so".

There. That was easy.

The point being, if the remains can't be disturbed because of faith based reasons based on nothing more than the word of the Holocaust Industry, why shouldn't they be disturbed if someone simply says they aren't Jewish and we can leave the corrections needed to science. Surely you don't expect revisionists to live up to a higher standard than the accusers?

Besides, would it matter even if someone could prove Jewish is a separate origin through DNA testing?
Apparently so since they seem to be out ahead of the possibility and started forming a defense for just such an accusation of DNA based proof.

Scientists in Israel have demonstrated that it is possible to fabricate DNA evidence, undermining the credibility of what has been considered the gold standard of proof in criminal cases.

The scientists fabricated blood and saliva samples containing DNA from a person other than the donor of the blood and saliva. They also showed that if they had access to a DNA profile in a database, they could construct a sample of DNA to match that profile without obtaining any tissue from that person.

“You can just engineer a crime scene,” said Dan Frumkin, lead author of the paper, which has been published online by the journal Forensic Science International: Genetics. “Any biology undergraduate could perform this.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/18/science/18dna.html

They can just say it's forged.
But I thought that was one of their biggest complaints about Revisionism? They claim Revisionists are always dismissing evidence because it's fake.
Sure, it actually is forged, but apparently, if you're the Holocaust Industry, the "I said so" one way street reigns supreme.

Or maybe they're just planning on keeping the remains undisturbed until they can forge enough DNA evidence for the "mass graves".

Either way, The Holocaust Industry is well prepared.

[Carolyn Yeager]

I agree that claims of mass graves do not equal mass graves that mass graves themselves do not prove the overall narrative. Therefore, I would go on a grave-by-grave basis and ask, along the way, what would constitute enough proof to establish the overall narrative.

Does that seem fair?

Fair enough to me. I recommend, MGS, that you read this article that discusses many mass graves found in eastern and southeastern Europe and in Russia. I believe this follows your request for a grave-by-grave basis to some extent. http://carolynyeager.net/search-wwii-mass-graves. Please respond after you have read the whole thing. You might be questioned on it.