Filip Mueller / another lying "eyewitness"

[disillusioned]

Alpha:

Welcome to the Revisionist forum. Contrary to popular belief, these people are not Neo-Nazis.

Also, you should know that people like Hannover and Sailor get hung up on silly things like... "facts" and "evidence" and "science." Apparently, the Germans are subject to laws of physics like the rest of us. Or so these Revisionists would have us believe!!! HAHAHAHA!


Seriously, though. Bring your friends!

Disillusioned

[Free Minded]

The doubters should go to these sites and study them carefully; then, when they know what they are talking about they can come back and criticise Hannover et al, who DO know more than the average bear.

http://www.maion.com/photography/kathma ... n_p18.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions ... res/death/

http://www.deathonline.net/disposal/cre ... rocess.cfm

http://www.deathonline.net/disposal/cremation/index.cfm

Have a nice day!

[Carto's Cutlass Supreme]

To Freeminded:

Those sites certainly support the revisionists.

http://www.deathonline.net/disposal/cre ... rocess.cfm

states that in a cremation oven "It takes one to one and a half hours to burn a body at a heat source of 900 degrees Celsius." Then it mentions sending the bones through a grinder. To get 900 celsius, they're using coke or something.

So imagine the slower time it would take in an open air fire using wood that doesn't burn at 900 degrees C, and breaking up the bones by hand. Then imagine having that situation for a task of 750,000 bodies, already buried, that have to be dug up. That would be the amount of people that would equate to 11 football stadiums filled to capacity with spectators. That is Treblinka for you, and why it isn't believable.

Afterall how long would a body take to be cremated in an open air fire? 8 hours? so let's say you do 150 bodies that way, and then have another shift and do 150 more. That is 300 bodies a day. Great. To do this you have a railroad track that is the length of a football field with a fire running under it, and you allow 2 feet width for every body. You'll be done with the 750,000 bodies in 7 years!

750,000 divided by 300 equals amount of days, divided by 365 equals the amount of years, which is 6.849 years.

2 ft. per body, and 150 bodies equals 300 feet, equals 100 yards, equals the length of a football field. Imagine keeping a fire that long tended with wood!

Regarding the Hindu funeral pyre. Everyone agrees cremation in a fire is possible. But how high is the pyre? Taller than the 1 foot high (guessing) railroad track rails supposedly used at Treblinka I bet. And I didn't see that the sites you mentioned say how long it takes.

[J William]

During the mad cow disease outbreak in the UK several years ago the carcasses of the "culled" animals were burned in pits using, I believe, fuel oil. Does anyone have access to reports pertaining to the how many animals were culled, the length of time required to process each animal, the amounts of fuel used, the amount of remains and if the purpose of the burning was to only carbonize the carcasses prior to direct burial rather than to reduce them to ashes? While it would be hard to directly compare the burning of a fattened bovine to an emaciated human being I feel there would some usefull data to be gleaned from this episode.

[J William]

To Freeminded:

Regarding the Hindu funeral pyre. Everyone agrees cremation in a fire is possible. But how high is the pyre? Taller than the 1 foot high (guessing) railroad track rails supposedly used at Treblinka I bet. And I didn't see that the sites you mentioned say how long it takes.

There were several film clips on the news concerning the recent tidal wave that showed the funeral pyres. The cremation pyre I observed in Nepal(1999) was bee-hive shaped and approximately 5 feet high by 6 feet in diameter and probably burned for hours. I have a video of the cremation from a distance and if requested I will post a clip of the cremation.

[Free Minded]

Carto - I was involved in a dirty little war in my younger years. I never saw the actual burning of people, usually alive, in straw roofed rondavels (round huts) only the aftermath. The huts burnt for hours, often about 12 - 20 hours . They were too hot to approach until well after that time. Many had as many as 6 people inside. Our forensic people could still identify the corpses - no DNA in those days - and they were still recognisable as humans. The thing that struck me the most and that took years to eradicate from my dreams etc. was the smell of buring flesh and the sight of globs of fat that hung from trees nearby. Many sites had the look - in my imagination - of Dantes inferno after the fires went out. One New Years Eve/Night (around 2300 to 0100) years ago I flew in a helicopter to try and help the inmates of a village of around 3000 inhabitants that had been attacked by Commies. They slaughtered many of the villagers and set the village on fire. We were in the only chopper available. We could not get to within range of the village due to the heat and we had .30 calibre twin Brownings with which we could hit a cigarette packet at 1100 metres! Afterwards it was confirmed by intelligence that all the dead had been identified. And NO-ONE had been completely consumed. I could go on and on. No those pits etc could not have existed! Of that I am sure.

As a footnote my pilot, a close friend, was shot down two days later and killed.

[Free Minded]

J William - it was Foot and Mouth - not Mad Cow.

See these sites. Note the numbers! Enjoy your day.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/gall/0,8542,443237,00.html This is a bunch of photos of pigs etc burning. Might whet your appetite. Then again - might not.

To control the epidemic, 4,196,580 animals were slaughtered (7). Animals were slaughtered if they were on infected premises, on farms neighboring infected premises, on premises with animals that had direct contact with infected animals, and if any infection was suspected. In addition, 2,048,769 animals were slaughtered under the livestock welfare (disposal) scheme as movement of animals was otherwise banned. In total, 6,245,349 animals were slaughtered. Officials disposed of approximately 600,000 tons of carcasses: approximately 130,000 by rendering (burning); 95,000 in licensed commercial landfill sites; and 61,000 at four mass burial sites. Burial of carcasses occurred on >900 farms and burning on >950 farms. Approximately 100,000 tons of pyre ash were transferred to landfills. Specific details on the timing of slaughter are not available, although because most slaughtering occurred in response to, and soon after, the diagnosis of new cases, the slaughter curve would be expected to follow the epidemic curve (Figure 1).

http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/EID/vol9no1/02-0265.htm

http://www.wildlifeinformation.org/Subd ... hnique.htm

[Scott]

During the mad cow disease outbreak in the UK several years ago the carcasses of the "culled" animals were burned in pits using, I believe, fuel oil. Does anyone have access to reports pertaining to the how many animals were culled, the length of time required to process each animal, the amounts of fuel used, the amount of remains and if the purpose of the burning was to only carbonize the carcasses prior to direct burial rather than to reduce them to ashes? While it would be hard to directly compare the burning of a fattened bovine to an emaciated human being I feel there would some usefull data to be gleaned from this episode.

I have an academic paper on this, although not the same event. I'll send it to anyone who sends me their e-mail address.

[email protected]

[Turpitz]

During the mad cow disease outbreak in the UK several years ago the carcasses of the "culled" animals were burned in pits using, I believe, fuel oil.

No they weren't!

Does anyone have access to reports pertaining to the how many animals were culled,

Of Cows alone, the real figure is around 1,500.000.

the length of time required to process each animal

It took between 14 to 16 days to cremate between 200/250 Cows, the cremation was so poor in many cases that the animals had to be burnt up to three times.

the amounts of fuel used

Thousands of lorry loads of coal (not coke) and literally thousands of tons of railway sleepers.

the amount of remains

Masses of it! Even after sometimes three consecutive burnings. It was taken away by the lorry load.

if the purpose of the burning was to only carbonize the carcasses prior to direct burial rather than to reduce them to ashes?

The original idea of burning was to eliminate the actual virus/disease. All the animals bedding straw/hay and food stuff's was also burnt.

While it would be hard to directly compare the burning of a fattened bovine to an emaciated human being I feel there would some usefull data to be gleaned from this episode.

Why would arrivals be emaciated? The story speaks of being gassed on arrival, why would the arrivals lose six stone on a train journey?

'Officials' (i.e. people who actually do things.) disposed of approximately 600,000 tons of carcasses: approximately 130,000 by rendering (burning); 95,000 in licensed commercial landfill sites; and 61,000 at four mass burial sites.

These figures are odd and do not seem to add up?

[Laurentz Dahl]

I recently got my hands on an uncorrected proof copy of the 1979 first edition of the Stein and Day Muller translation. It has a foreword by none other than well known Holocaust historian Prof. Yehuda Bauer which deserve some quoting (bolds mine):

Filip Muller's book is a unique document indeed: it is the testimony of the only man who saw the Jewish people die and lived to tell what he saw. It is not known exactly how many people were murdered in the Auschwitz gas chambers, but the estimates run around three and a half million.(...) He saw a civilization being destroyed by devils in ordinary, human form. He not only saw the martyrs, he spoke to Satan. He tells the story in simple, straightforward language. There is no embellishment, no deviation. This is not a work of art. It is a testimony.
It is a testimony also of a human being who decided, at one point, not to suffer any longer and to choose death. In the same simple, matter-of-fact way he relates the scenes of hell and fire that he witnessed, he tells the story of his attempted suicide and the ultimate cruelty of the SS guard who prevented it; he tells of the beauty of Yana's death in the horror of the mass murder, perhaps the most poignant story of any Holocaust testimony.
Muller is neither a historian nor a psychologist; he does not analyze or dissect. But what he tells is of tremendous importance to both (...)

This is a vital testimony, and it will undoubtedly serve as an element in attempting to approach understanding the dread that was Auschwitz, although none of us that was not there can cross the threshold of knowledge. (...) This unembellished telling is a terrible accusation against God and humanity.

(...) He was moved to write again by the effect of his testimony at the 'Auschwitz trial' at Frankfurt, in 1964. Afterwards he began writing up what he had jotted down, had it translated into German, then looked for a publisher. The result is before us: a shattering, centrally important testimony of the sole survivor of the whole span of the murder operations of the Auschwitz-Birkenau killing centre, of the anus mundi. We must contend with Filip Muller's testimony, if we want our civilization to survive.

(p.xiii-xiv)

[Carto's Cutlass Supreme]

Just the fact that a major holocaust historian in the late '70's is saying around three and a half million shows there's a problem.

But then look at the Christianity substitute nature of the myth. God, hellfire, "why has God forsaken us" themes all right there.

Nice job Laurentz on finding this nearly lost/forgotten document.

[Hannover]

Yehuda Bauer said:

We must contend with Filip Muller's testimony, if we want our civilization to survive.

Oh spare me! What rubbish from another 'holocaust' high priest charlatan.

What we really must contend with is judeo-supremacists who demand that we accept this utter nonsense.

- "...the 2 pits were 40 to 50 meters long, about 8 meters wide and meters deep....by digging a channel which sloped slightly to either side from the center point it would possible to catch the fat exuding from the corpses as they were burning in the pit, in 2 collecting pans at either end of the channel.."
*** a lie, the fat would burn immediately, no evidence for pits as alleged

- "...the sizzling fat was scooped out with buckets on a long curved rod and poured over the pit causing flames to leap up amid much crackling and hissing"
*** a lie, see above

- "the powers that be had allocated twenty minutes for the cremation of 3 corpses...."
*** a lie, impossible to cremate 3 bodies in 20 minutes

- "The doctors proceeded to cut pieces of still warm flesh from thighs & calves and threw them into waiting receptacles. The muscles of those who had been shot were still working and contracting, making the bucket jump about"
*** a laughable lie, no explanation necessary

- Mueller claimed 10,000 were cremated daily in the ovens of Birkenau
*** a lie, utterly impossible given the number of operating crematorium and the time lengths alleged

- "I noticed there were some small greenish-blue crystals lying on the concrete floor at the back of the room. They were scattered beneath an opening in the ceiling. A large fan was installed up there, its blades humming as they revolved."
*** a lie, there is no evidence for "greenish-blue crystals", and the cyanide (Zyklon-B) story, while completely debunked by Revisionists, claims that the gassing agent was dropped into 4 cage like wire mesh structures...no fans, they can't even keep their lies straight

sources:
'Sonderbehandling', 'Eyewitness Auschwitz - Three Years in the Gas Chambers', by Filip Mueller.
also see:
'The Giant with Feet of Clay, Raul Hilberg....', by Juergen Graf.

- Hannover

[PotPie]

Müller testified during the Auschwitz trials in Frankfurt, Germany. Several of the accused former SS men were convicted, based on his testiomony. It is amazing how the German prosecutors and judges took this man’s nonsense for the truth.

fge

You've got that right. Mueller was never questioned in any real, critical way. He was never challenged on the contradictions between his court testimony and his works elsewhere, such as in Die Todesfabrik.