French Pres. Macron claims to support 'Free speech' as "deniers" (musicians, poets, rappers, artists) are persecuted
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French Pres. Macron claims to support 'Free speech' as "deniers" (musicians, poets, rappers, artists) are persecuted
French President Emmanuel Macron said:
"It's never the place of a president of the Republic to pass judgment on the editorial choice of a journalist or newsroom, never. Because we have freedom of the press."
France's Macron refuses to condemn Charlie Hebdo cartoons of Prophet Muhammad
https://archive.fo/MP5YE | http://web.archive.org/web/2020/https:/ ... a-54788078
So does that mean "Holocaust denial" will soon be legal in France?
Recommended:
Facebook bans black French comedian Dieudonne for "anti-Semitism", "holocaust denial"
viewtopic.php?t=13418
Official list of Revisionist scholars persecuted / imprisoned for questioning the "Holocaust"
viewtopic.php?t=12642
French WWII memorial vandalised with revisionist messaging
viewtopic.php?t=13484
France: 20% of non-Christians never heard of holocaust; 15% call it an exaggeration/lie
viewtopic.php?t=12194
"It's never the place of a president of the Republic to pass judgment on the editorial choice of a journalist or newsroom, never. Because we have freedom of the press."
France's Macron refuses to condemn Charlie Hebdo cartoons of Prophet Muhammad
https://archive.fo/MP5YE | http://web.archive.org/web/2020/https:/ ... a-54788078
So does that mean "Holocaust denial" will soon be legal in France?
Recommended:
Facebook bans black French comedian Dieudonne for "anti-Semitism", "holocaust denial"
viewtopic.php?t=13418
Official list of Revisionist scholars persecuted / imprisoned for questioning the "Holocaust"
viewtopic.php?t=12642
French WWII memorial vandalised with revisionist messaging
viewtopic.php?t=13484
France: 20% of non-Christians never heard of holocaust; 15% call it an exaggeration/lie
viewtopic.php?t=12194
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
NOTE: I am taking a leave of absence from revisionism to focus on other things. At this point, the ball is in their court to show the alleged massive pits full of human remains at the so-called "extermination camps." After 8 decades they still refuse to do this. I wonder why...
— Herbert Spencer
NOTE: I am taking a leave of absence from revisionism to focus on other things. At this point, the ball is in their court to show the alleged massive pits full of human remains at the so-called "extermination camps." After 8 decades they still refuse to do this. I wonder why...
- borjastick
- Valuable asset
- Posts: 3233
- Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:52 am
- Location: Europe
Re: French Pres. Macron claims to support 'Free speech' as "deniers" (musicians, poets, rappers, artists) are persecute
Two different things as far as the establishment goes. Freedom of the press is to be protected at all times because it is a practical theory so to speak. Freedom of speech in terms of the public making it clear in the press they don't believe the holocaust of that JFK was murdered, Elvis is still alive is to be stopped at all costs.
So it is fine for Charlie Hedbo to mock the prophet and thus offend muslims but it is not fine for you and I to doubt the holocaust and offend jews.
So it is fine for Charlie Hedbo to mock the prophet and thus offend muslims but it is not fine for you and I to doubt the holocaust and offend jews.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'
'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician
'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician
French Rapper Freeze Corleone Facing Criminal Prosecution for Antisemitism, Holocaust Denial on Hit Debut Album
Another White supremacist neo-Nazi in France is facing criminal charges for releasing an album with lyrics that promote "Holocaust denial." Apparently he is a very popular musician, but he needs to be silenced because he believes that he is part of a "master race" due to his blond hair and blue eyes.
French Rapper Freeze Corleone Facing Criminal Prosecution for Antisemitism, Holocaust Denial on Hit Debut Album
https://archive.fo/ElyfS | http://web.archive.org/web/2020/https:/ ... but-album/
French Rapper Freeze Corleone Facing Criminal Prosecution for Antisemitism, Holocaust Denial on Hit Debut Album
https://archive.fo/ElyfS | http://web.archive.org/web/2020/https:/ ... but-album/
A French rapper whose debut album reached number three on the country’s charts after its release last week is facing criminal prosecution for lyrics on several tracks that promote crude antisemitism and Holocaust denial.
In an announcement on Thursday, Gerald Darmanin — France’s interior minister — denounced rapper Freeze Corleone for his “unspeakable antisemitism and negationism” and confirmed that his ministry would be pursuing legal action. Darmanin also called on Twitter and Facebook “not to spread this filth.”
...
Released on Sept. 11, Freeze Corleone’s first studio album, “The Phantom Menace,” was replete with “antisemitism, conspiracy theories, and apologies for Hitler, the Third Reich and [Afghan Taliban commander] Mullah Omar,” according to LICRA, a prominent French NGO that campaigns against racism and antisemitism.
Several media commentators expressed alarm at the brisk sales of the album in France, where Holocaust denial and antisemitic and racist invective can result in criminal penalties.
Within three days of its release, “The Phantom Menace” had sold more than 15,000 copies and attracted 5.2 million listeners on the Spotify digital music platform.
The rapper’s lyrics include exhortations to “F_k the Shoah (Holocaust)!” along with lines such as, “I arrive determined like Adolf in the 1930s,” and, “Every day I f_k Israel like I live in Gaza.”
...
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
NOTE: I am taking a leave of absence from revisionism to focus on other things. At this point, the ball is in their court to show the alleged massive pits full of human remains at the so-called "extermination camps." After 8 decades they still refuse to do this. I wonder why...
— Herbert Spencer
NOTE: I am taking a leave of absence from revisionism to focus on other things. At this point, the ball is in their court to show the alleged massive pits full of human remains at the so-called "extermination camps." After 8 decades they still refuse to do this. I wonder why...
Hervé Lalin / Hervé Ryssen jailed in France
Hervé Lalin / Hervé Ryssen has been jailed in France for three posts, one of them "Holocaust denial"
http://archive.fo/R1vJl | http://web.archive.org/web/2020/https:/ ... -messages/French Court Jails Neo-Nazi Apologist and Holocaust Denier for Antisemitic Messages
September 21, 2020 10:14 am
A French court jailed an unrepentant antisemitic activist on Friday for two postings on the internet that defamed Jews and a third that denied the Holocaust.
Hervé Lalin — who also goes by the name Hervé Ryssen — has now begun a 17-month jail term at the Fleury-Mérogis prison near Paris for the three offenses, committed between 2017 and 2020.
The court convicted Lalin for a series of antisemitic postings on Facebook and Twitter, as well as for a video he published on YouTube in 2018 — called “The Jews, Incest and Hysteria” — in which he attacked Jews as a “people of incest.”
A book-length screed by Lalin — published in 2018 and titled “Antisemitism Without Complexity or Taboo” — was condemned for denying the truth of the Nazi Holocaust, a criminal offense in France.
In a recent analysis of the French far right, the newspaper Liberation identified Lalin as an integral member of a network of propagandists who were dedicated to the denial and distortion of the Holocaust.
As well as Lalin, the group includes Jerome Bourbon Rivarol, Alain Soral, Yvan Benedetti and Vincent Reynouard — all of whom engage “in systematic denial of the crimes of the Third Reich and the rehabilitation of the murderous [Nazi] regime,” the paper noted.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
NOTE: I am taking a leave of absence from revisionism to focus on other things. At this point, the ball is in their court to show the alleged massive pits full of human remains at the so-called "extermination camps." After 8 decades they still refuse to do this. I wonder why...
— Herbert Spencer
NOTE: I am taking a leave of absence from revisionism to focus on other things. At this point, the ball is in their court to show the alleged massive pits full of human remains at the so-called "extermination camps." After 8 decades they still refuse to do this. I wonder why...
Re: French Pres. Macron claims to support 'Free speech' as "deniers" (musicians, poets, rappers, artists) are persecute
One needs to realise that in mass democracies (including parliamentary ones) elected politicians will be ruthless opportunists with some charisma and a marketable public image. In political parties running for elections, you'll get of course various people. Just think of the types:
- There is the ordinary members who joined out of traditions, some grievances and sometimes even out of sincere concerns for some cause.
- Then you get those that pursuit some career as candidates for the various levels of governments.
- The established will have an internal bureaucracy that runs the administration, member services and election campaigns. They also have tailings of NGOs connected to them. The party leadership got to go through this so they can get onto influential positions.
- As for your higher level candidates it's the back seat boys (and girls) that essentially have to vote in the direction the party leadership wants it to go.
- And then there is finally the candidates and position holders with public profiles, which are either well known speakers for the party or minister or people with some public office to run.
To run a career in a party, you got to comply with a number of requirements. Well, you need to have joined the party either on an early age or if you already have gotten some public profile, you can do so a bit later. Typical jobs would be close to politics: Lawyers, PR-managers, trade unionists, lobbyists, journalists etc. You already notice those aren't exactly jobs with a reputation of honesty. To advance, the present leadership within the party needs to like you. You can imagine: Those won't be those challenging the power, influence or ideology of the party elite. To the contrary: if you'd like to advance within the party, you'll have to please the establishment and groups/figures that are on a friendly footing with the party.
With other words, there is more selection in favour of people's pleasers. To be a public candidate, you not only need to please the party elite, but also sponsors, journalist and the general publics. The more they diverge in their preferences the more it helps to be a skilled double talker. Just be careful that the lies you tell are of the kind that can easily be proven a false statement. Better: Don't make definite statements at all, but use easy-pleasy mumbo-jumbo in your speeches and statements. To keep track can be difficult though, so have some PR-advisers and political analysts as well as other experts on your staff.
That brings us then to the Macrons of this world. And why they pretend to support free speech on the one hand, while condemning those using the right on the other:
They condemn / disavow as it suits them. There is a large and also influential number of people that are in favor of free speech, even if it displeases certain religious groups. So you better make noise they like. But then there are those, even more influential at average that don't want that people cast doubt on the Holocaust narrative in public. Again act in a way they'll like this.
Needless to say that this will lead to more problems over time. Until now the answer of politicians to this was to "Keep the economy running". As long as people can watch their favorite TV show and have enough beer in the fridge among other amenities. They won't go into active rebellion. Especially, if you control cultural production anyway. If the privately owned media is on their side and your friends are in charge of universities, churches and whatever else does shape the views of the people, then you should be fine. Even if what they spread is actually non-sense. In fact dumbing people down can be an advantage. Just make sure that most of the articulate people will preach your praises and ideology. If they don't you can get into trouble over time, when you loose the support of the vote-sheeple. That's why you have to make sure that dissidents get treated in a way they will become social outcasts. If there are some that speak to their friends and they agree with them, never mind, the friends will fall back into their habitual mode quite quickly once they don't have contact with that chap again. Your problem arises, when people create cultural structures you have no control over - Especially when those structures reach out (and find the support of) the more educated classes of society. So having SJWs, postmodernists and Antifa run your university isn't really that bad of a situation - as long as the economy is running, but those skills are mostly learned elsewhere anyway.
- There is the ordinary members who joined out of traditions, some grievances and sometimes even out of sincere concerns for some cause.
- Then you get those that pursuit some career as candidates for the various levels of governments.
- The established will have an internal bureaucracy that runs the administration, member services and election campaigns. They also have tailings of NGOs connected to them. The party leadership got to go through this so they can get onto influential positions.
- As for your higher level candidates it's the back seat boys (and girls) that essentially have to vote in the direction the party leadership wants it to go.
- And then there is finally the candidates and position holders with public profiles, which are either well known speakers for the party or minister or people with some public office to run.
To run a career in a party, you got to comply with a number of requirements. Well, you need to have joined the party either on an early age or if you already have gotten some public profile, you can do so a bit later. Typical jobs would be close to politics: Lawyers, PR-managers, trade unionists, lobbyists, journalists etc. You already notice those aren't exactly jobs with a reputation of honesty. To advance, the present leadership within the party needs to like you. You can imagine: Those won't be those challenging the power, influence or ideology of the party elite. To the contrary: if you'd like to advance within the party, you'll have to please the establishment and groups/figures that are on a friendly footing with the party.
With other words, there is more selection in favour of people's pleasers. To be a public candidate, you not only need to please the party elite, but also sponsors, journalist and the general publics. The more they diverge in their preferences the more it helps to be a skilled double talker. Just be careful that the lies you tell are of the kind that can easily be proven a false statement. Better: Don't make definite statements at all, but use easy-pleasy mumbo-jumbo in your speeches and statements. To keep track can be difficult though, so have some PR-advisers and political analysts as well as other experts on your staff.
That brings us then to the Macrons of this world. And why they pretend to support free speech on the one hand, while condemning those using the right on the other:
They condemn / disavow as it suits them. There is a large and also influential number of people that are in favor of free speech, even if it displeases certain religious groups. So you better make noise they like. But then there are those, even more influential at average that don't want that people cast doubt on the Holocaust narrative in public. Again act in a way they'll like this.
Needless to say that this will lead to more problems over time. Until now the answer of politicians to this was to "Keep the economy running". As long as people can watch their favorite TV show and have enough beer in the fridge among other amenities. They won't go into active rebellion. Especially, if you control cultural production anyway. If the privately owned media is on their side and your friends are in charge of universities, churches and whatever else does shape the views of the people, then you should be fine. Even if what they spread is actually non-sense. In fact dumbing people down can be an advantage. Just make sure that most of the articulate people will preach your praises and ideology. If they don't you can get into trouble over time, when you loose the support of the vote-sheeple. That's why you have to make sure that dissidents get treated in a way they will become social outcasts. If there are some that speak to their friends and they agree with them, never mind, the friends will fall back into their habitual mode quite quickly once they don't have contact with that chap again. Your problem arises, when people create cultural structures you have no control over - Especially when those structures reach out (and find the support of) the more educated classes of society. So having SJWs, postmodernists and Antifa run your university isn't really that bad of a situation - as long as the economy is running, but those skills are mostly learned elsewhere anyway.
Re: French Pres. Macron claims to support 'Free speech' as "deniers" (musicians, poets, rappers, artists) are persecute
A recent terrorist attack in france resulted in three deaths, two beheadings: https://twitter.com/TreyYingst/status/1 ... 9781131264
France under attack: Jihadist murders three worshippers – including two who were beheaded – INSIDE Nice church + Gunman screaming 'Allahu Akbar' is shot dead by cops in Avignon + French consulate worker is stabbed in Saudi Arabia
http://archive.fo/1XjRw | http://web.archive.org/web/202010290950 ... -Nice.html
The motive for this attack (an the previous beheading) appears to be depictions of Mohammed - the Islamic religious leader - in satirical cartoons.
The Supreme Leader of Iran, Ayatollah Khamenei, has condemned French President Emmanuel Macron for supporting the cartoons under the guise of "Freedom of speech/expression" while persecuting those who question the "Holocaust" narrative.
https://twitter.com/khamenei_ir/status/ ... 2183472128
https://twitter.com/khamenei_ir/status/ ... 6989907969
I have confused myself in an attempt to find a coherent definition of "Freedom of speech/expression" that includes drawing cartoons of Mohammed but not investigating what happened to European Jews during WWII.
France under attack: Jihadist murders three worshippers – including two who were beheaded – INSIDE Nice church + Gunman screaming 'Allahu Akbar' is shot dead by cops in Avignon + French consulate worker is stabbed in Saudi Arabia
http://archive.fo/1XjRw | http://web.archive.org/web/202010290950 ... -Nice.html
The motive for this attack (an the previous beheading) appears to be depictions of Mohammed - the Islamic religious leader - in satirical cartoons.
The Supreme Leader of Iran, Ayatollah Khamenei, has condemned French President Emmanuel Macron for supporting the cartoons under the guise of "Freedom of speech/expression" while persecuting those who question the "Holocaust" narrative.
https://twitter.com/khamenei_ir/status/ ... 2183472128
https://twitter.com/khamenei_ir/status/ ... 6989907969
I have confused myself in an attempt to find a coherent definition of "Freedom of speech/expression" that includes drawing cartoons of Mohammed but not investigating what happened to European Jews during WWII.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
NOTE: I am taking a leave of absence from revisionism to focus on other things. At this point, the ball is in their court to show the alleged massive pits full of human remains at the so-called "extermination camps." After 8 decades they still refuse to do this. I wonder why...
— Herbert Spencer
NOTE: I am taking a leave of absence from revisionism to focus on other things. At this point, the ball is in their court to show the alleged massive pits full of human remains at the so-called "extermination camps." After 8 decades they still refuse to do this. I wonder why...
Re: French Pres. Macron claims to support 'Free speech' as "deniers" (musicians, poets, rappers, artists) are persecute
Macron is a detestable turd. A shameless water carrier for the usual suspects
It's easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled
Re: French Pres. Macron claims to support 'Free speech' as "deniers" (musicians, poets, rappers, artists) are persecute
Lamprecht wrote:A recent terrorist attack in france resulted in three deaths, two beheadings: https://twitter.com/TreyYingst/status/1 ... 9781131264
France under attack: Jihadist murders three worshippers – including two who were beheaded – INSIDE Nice church + Gunman screaming 'Allahu Akbar' is shot dead by cops in Avignon + French consulate worker is stabbed in Saudi Arabia
http://archive.fo/1XjRw | http://web.archive.org/web/202010290950 ... -Nice.html
The motive for this attack (an the previous beheading) appears to be depictions of Mohammed - the Islamic religious leader - in satirical cartoons.
The Supreme Leader of Iran, Ayatollah Khamenei, has condemned French President Emmanuel Macron for supporting the cartoons under the guise of "Freedom of speech/expression" while persecuting those who question the "Holocaust" narrative.
https://twitter.com/khamenei_ir/status/ ... 2183472128
https://twitter.com/khamenei_ir/status/ ... 6989907969
I have confused myself in an attempt to find a coherent definition of "Freedom of speech/expression" that includes drawing cartoons of Mohammed but not investigating what happened to European Jews during WWII.
There is none. It's just another case of special pleading.
There is no need for Mohammed to have more protection from being the subject of mockery than any other person, just because his followers demand that other people simply have to adhere to their rules. Same applies to Holocaust Believers - They can believe what they want, but if they demand that other people have to do so and are legally or violently deterred from questioning their narrative, not mock their superstition, etc. they are infringing on freedom in general. If you can't question something by proposing an alternative POV or disputing a thesis, then it's not a scientific thesis to begin with. There are good reasons to speak of a Holocaust Religion, one that was socially constructed since World War Two.
Re: French Pres. Macron claims to support 'Free speech' as "deniers" (musicians, poets, rappers, artists) are persecute
I do not think that drawing cartoons of Muhammad should be banned, but if someone is going to talk about "Freedom of Speech" it is easier to make the argment that such cartoons should be banned than "Holocaust" research.
Mostly, drawing these pictures is just a matter of trying to be offensive for its own sake, it's not much of a political or ideological statement. Advocating research into a historical event - along with sharing political ideas - is what the USA Founding Fathers meant when they said "Freedom of Speech and Expression." They weren't talking about speech which is obscene solely for the purpose of being obscene.
Here's a page on this topic:
Obscenity and the First Amendment
https://courses2.cit.cornell.edu/social ... ndment.htm
There's a lot more to this if you want to research it, I just quickly searched Gogle and found this. Mostly this stuff applies to things of a sexual nature, but the case of these anti-Islamic cartoons they often are of a lascivious nature. Check some out for yourself:
There are plenty more just like this. What exactly does this achieve? I wonder if it's just a way for Macron to say "See? You have freedom of speech, you can draw obscene pictures of Muslims and Mohammed - even though it will obviously inspire violent attacks!" It makes people think they have freedom of speech when actually they will be imprisoned for publicly questioning the official "Holocaust" narrative.
Again, I don't think these cartoons should be banned, but I don't see why anyone would want to draw them in the first place. It's not a political statement it's just being rude against a minority (many of them extremely religious) that has flooded into the county by the millions in the past few decades.
It should all be allowed, including "Holocaust" research. Revisionist scholars actuall put in the research. Some have taken gas chamber wall samples to be measured in labs. They measure buildings, analyze documents and blueprints and testimony, do mathematical calculations, and publish them in journals or as books and documentaries reviewed by their peers. There are of course "Holocaust" cartoons that are similarly rude made by trolls on the internet, but they're not being plastered on the side of buildings for everyone to see.
I'd say the Holocaust Handbooks - which you cannot distribute legally in many European countries - are more important to the public interest than some ridiculous cartoons.
Mostly, drawing these pictures is just a matter of trying to be offensive for its own sake, it's not much of a political or ideological statement. Advocating research into a historical event - along with sharing political ideas - is what the USA Founding Fathers meant when they said "Freedom of Speech and Expression." They weren't talking about speech which is obscene solely for the purpose of being obscene.
Here's a page on this topic:
Obscenity and the First Amendment
https://courses2.cit.cornell.edu/social ... ndment.htm
In 1973, in Miller v. California (413 U.S. 15), the Supreme Court wrote the following for factfinders attempting to determine if a given material were obscene:
"The basic guidelines for the trier of fact must be:
(a) whether "the average person, applying contemporary community standards" would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest; (b) whether the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by the applicable state law; and (c) whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value."
In Kaplan v. California (413 U.S. 115), decided in tandem, it was held that the contemporary community standards of the area in question were the relevant standards, and the prosecution need not establish a "national" standard against which to evaluate material for obscenity.
There's a lot more to this if you want to research it, I just quickly searched Gogle and found this. Mostly this stuff applies to things of a sexual nature, but the case of these anti-Islamic cartoons they often are of a lascivious nature. Check some out for yourself:
There are plenty more just like this. What exactly does this achieve? I wonder if it's just a way for Macron to say "See? You have freedom of speech, you can draw obscene pictures of Muslims and Mohammed - even though it will obviously inspire violent attacks!" It makes people think they have freedom of speech when actually they will be imprisoned for publicly questioning the official "Holocaust" narrative.
Again, I don't think these cartoons should be banned, but I don't see why anyone would want to draw them in the first place. It's not a political statement it's just being rude against a minority (many of them extremely religious) that has flooded into the county by the millions in the past few decades.
It should all be allowed, including "Holocaust" research. Revisionist scholars actuall put in the research. Some have taken gas chamber wall samples to be measured in labs. They measure buildings, analyze documents and blueprints and testimony, do mathematical calculations, and publish them in journals or as books and documentaries reviewed by their peers. There are of course "Holocaust" cartoons that are similarly rude made by trolls on the internet, but they're not being plastered on the side of buildings for everyone to see.
I'd say the Holocaust Handbooks - which you cannot distribute legally in many European countries - are more important to the public interest than some ridiculous cartoons.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
NOTE: I am taking a leave of absence from revisionism to focus on other things. At this point, the ball is in their court to show the alleged massive pits full of human remains at the so-called "extermination camps." After 8 decades they still refuse to do this. I wonder why...
— Herbert Spencer
NOTE: I am taking a leave of absence from revisionism to focus on other things. At this point, the ball is in their court to show the alleged massive pits full of human remains at the so-called "extermination camps." After 8 decades they still refuse to do this. I wonder why...
- borjastick
- Valuable asset
- Posts: 3233
- Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:52 am
- Location: Europe
Re: French Pres. Macron claims to support 'Free speech' as "deniers" (musicians, poets, rappers, artists) are persecute
I think, like most of the holocaust, this islamism thingy is easily explained. France has little or no right wing press or comment. It was and still is largely a left wing state and like most of the western world is historically based in Christianity. Thus taking the piss out of Islam via some crude cartoons of the Prophet Mohamed who cannot be shown visually for some obscure reason is an easy choice to make. It shows the state is full of good intent because it allows freedom of the press and freedom of speech. Except it doesn't.
Banning freedom of discussion and public investigation of the holocaust is clearly because the holocaust does not stand up to criticism.
Angering a bunch of ingrate, half wit muslims who have only done anything with their miserable lives since they got to the land of milk and honey - France- where they get free this that and the other is just those on the left letting rip with their humour. I don't find these cartoons funny at all not because I have a soft spot for Islamists. far from it my only soft spot for Muslims would be a sand dune somewhere in the back deserts of Iran, but because they are crude and unfunny.
The bottom line here is simple. Most of the world leaders, educated classes who give a damn and the media know the truth about the holocaust. It didn't happen and less than a few cartoons of the claims would expose it beyond repair.
Banning freedom of discussion and public investigation of the holocaust is clearly because the holocaust does not stand up to criticism.
Angering a bunch of ingrate, half wit muslims who have only done anything with their miserable lives since they got to the land of milk and honey - France- where they get free this that and the other is just those on the left letting rip with their humour. I don't find these cartoons funny at all not because I have a soft spot for Islamists. far from it my only soft spot for Muslims would be a sand dune somewhere in the back deserts of Iran, but because they are crude and unfunny.
The bottom line here is simple. Most of the world leaders, educated classes who give a damn and the media know the truth about the holocaust. It didn't happen and less than a few cartoons of the claims would expose it beyond repair.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'
'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician
'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician
Re: French Pres. Macron claims to support 'Free speech' as "deniers" (musicians, poets, rappers, artists) are persecute
Lamprecht wrote:I do not think that drawing cartoons of Muhammad should be banned, but if someone is going to talk about "Freedom of Speech" it is easier to make the argment that such cartoons should be banned than "Holocaust" research.
Mostly, drawing these pictures is just a matter of trying to be offensive for its own sake, it's not much of a political or ideological statement. Advocating research into a historical event - along with sharing political ideas - is what the USA Founding Fathers meant when they said "Freedom of Speech and Expression." They weren't talking about speech which is obscene solely for the purpose of being obscene.
Here's a page on this topic:
Obscenity and the First Amendment
https://courses2.cit.cornell.edu/social ... ndment.htm
In 1973, in Miller v. California (413 U.S. 15), the Supreme Court wrote the following for factfinders attempting to determine if a given material were obscene:
"The basic guidelines for the trier of fact must be:
(a) whether "the average person, applying contemporary community standards" would find that the work, taken as a whole, appeals to the prurient interest; (b) whether the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct specifically defined by the applicable state law; and (c) whether the work, taken as a whole, lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value."
......
....
I hear your argument and actually find it conclusive. Historiographic, scientific research pertaining to the validity of Holocaust claims is in a completely different ball-park than drawings of an obscene nature relating to a supposed prophet of hundreds of years ago.
They may have some entertainment value, perhaps even being artistic, but any scientific value may be absent, plain and simple. The main objective seems to be provocation here, provocation to sell a magazine. So the primary aim is actually commercial.
Revisionist literature may be provocative to many, even the majority of people brought up in Holocaust belief, but it is essentially aiming to further knowledge about a certain era in order to challenge present prejudices or to contribute to a more realistic historiography.
It either formulates hypothesis and argues for conclusion or presents previously rather unknown facts, perhaps it refutes certain claims as well.
Holocaust enforcers won't see it that way. Or they see it, but don't want to admit it, of course.
They claim that the goal of "Holocaust Denial" is primarily political in the sense that it would bring Adolf Hitler back to power again. This btw. a rather interesting notion, because it implies that this would be their best argument against National Socialism. It also reveals that their aim of pushing the Holocaust and persecuting Revisionists is basically of a political nature and that their interest in correct historiography is secondary at best. The more historically educated of the Holocaust enforcers will of course try to be as precise as possible with their attempt at proving their point, since they need the appearance of the Holocaust being supported by "serious historians". But in the end it's all part of innuendo. No extermination plan, no proof of homicidal gas chambers and no body count that is remotely close to six million. The figure they must admit, is symbolic at best.
In the trials against Revisionists it was argued that they publish material "denying the Holocaust" for ulterior motives:
- Inciting hate against Jews.
- Rehabilitating Adolf Hitler and the "Nazis".
- Violating the dignity of the dead.
- Accusing witnesses of lying in a libellous manner.
- Forging history
- Publishing pseudo-scientific materials.
That's really some effort being spent to shut up researchers and publishers supposedly because they are wrong on history. Why couldn't they simply do some research in Auschwitz and prove the homicidal purpose of the morgues they allege were gas chambers? The German government had the resources and found the 'experts' to minimise the victim figures of the bombing of Dresden. Why not do the same with Auschwitz or any other concentration camp they allege were an extermination centre.
"Applying contemporary community standards" is also an argument of note. That's how public platforms were purged from Holocaust Revisionist materials, videos, podcasts etc. Of course they play the hate card in all those cases, but isn't the promotion of an alleged genocide on a repetitive basis itself hate propaganda?
That propaganda relating to "Nazi atrocities" aimed at a political purpose was admitted American experts shortly after 1945 already.
During the first months of the occupation, the Psychological Warfare Branch of the United States Army, being charged with the control of public information in Germany, undertook a campaign through Radio Luxembourg, the controlled German-language press, and special posters and pamphlets to acquaint the German people with the extent and nature of concentration- camp atrocities. The development of a sense of collective responsibility was considered a prerequisite to any long-term education of the German people. Later, editorial comment drew a distinction between those legally guilty of having directly committed atrocities and those morally responsible for having allowed National Socialism to come into being and for having tolerated its crimes.
https://archive.org/details/MorrisJanow ... Atrocities
Actually, this summarizes Holocausting pretty well. It however seems that this issue was dropped during the 1950s, when Germany was rebuilding itself. One can of course speculate about the reasons here. It flamed up again in the 1960s after the show trials of 'Eichmann' and Auschwitz camp stuff in Frankfurt. It was pushed more during the late 1970s with the release of the Soap Opera "Holocaust" by various Television Stations internationally. Those that say that this is an organised campaign by Jewish organisations and others are of course "conspiracy theorists". It seems there is more to that theory than just wild hypothesizing.
Re: French Pres. Macron claims to support 'Free speech' as "deniers" (musicians, poets, rappers, artists) are persecute
Macron is happy to allow freedom of expression for cartoons but once again only certain types of cartoons are allowed. What if someone tried to distribute or put up in a public place Tales of the Holohoax ? They would be arrested in no time !
https://archive.org/details/TalesOfTheHolohoax
https://archive.org/details/TalesOfTheHolohoax
There are 2 sides to every story - always listen or read both points of view and make up your own mind. Don't let others do your thinking for you.
Re: French Pres. Macron claims to support 'Free speech' as "deniers" (musicians, poets, rappers, artists) are persecute
A good example of the double standards at play was the firing of Charlie Hebdo's Maurice Sinet aka 'Sine' for antisemitism.
Strangely, this incident is never brought up by today's Charlie Hebdo "free speech" supporters.
From kosher-pedia;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin%C3%A9
Strangely, this incident is never brought up by today's Charlie Hebdo "free speech" supporters.
From kosher-pedia;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sin%C3%A9
In July 2008, Siné's column in the magazine Charlie Hebdo contained this comment on Jean Sarkozy's rumoured impending conversion to Judaism so he could marry a Jewish heiress of the wealthy Darty family, Jessica Sebaoun-Darty: "He'll go a long way in life, this lad!" [7] Sarkozy and Sebaoun-Darty married but Sarkozy has affirmed that he did not convert to Judaism. The incident led to complaints of anti-Semitism and journalist Claude Askolovitch described the comments as anti-Semitic.[6]
The magazine's editor, Philippe Val, ordered Siné to write a letter of apology or face termination. The cartoonist said he would rather "cut his own balls off", and was promptly fired. Both sides subsequently filed lawsuits, and in December 2010, Siné won a 40,000-euro court judgment against his former publisher for wrongful termination.[8]
It's easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled
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