Are We Close To Tipping Point?

[borjastick]

In the past five or six years I believe we, the holocaust revisionist community, have made enormous strides towards bringing the truth out from the shadows and into public knowledge and acceptance.

There can be little doubt that millions of people at the very least do not accept the so called 'facts' of the holocaust; that there was a deliberate, planned and state sponsored action in the second world war by Germany to exterminate all Jews on the planet, or at least many millions that they could get their hands on. Further that this plan was indeed put into action with the use of industrial scale gassing and mass shootings of six million jews under their sphere of influence and direct control.

We have spread the word backed up with masses of evidence, facts, logic and science. We use printed media, word of mouth, direct action, social media, youtube and much more. Word and doubt have spread hugely to a point where now we see comments of disbelief and outright scorn against the story in newspaper comment sections and comments below youtube vids. It's reached the point now, in my opinion, that most people don't try to force the six million argument any more, they know the figure is nonsense and if they don't when they start talking to us they soon learn.

So my questions are these; Are we far from tipping point? What does tipping point mean? How will tipping point manifest itself in reality?

Here's my take on those questions and I would like to hear from you on your observations of same.

Firstly let's establish what tipping point is.

I believe that tipping point is when the majority of general public, at least those who have an interest, publicly acknowledge that the holocaust as taught is a lie. That though the jews were persecuted they were not rounded up and murdered on an industrial scale at all let alone six million of them. That politically and socially the holocaust is accepted to be a lie.

Personally I think we are very very close to the first point. The others will naturally follow.

But there could be a high price to pay. To me the fall out of Tipping Point could be a bad reaction by israel to it all unraveling and their credibility dissolving, with much of the world's sympathy towards jews going up in smoke. That in itself could cause israel to do something very silly. israel really is a genuine case of lunatics running the asylum, but this asylum carries a nuclear arsenal.

What say you?

[Spatton]

I'm wondering more what gentiles would do if the holocaust lie were to be revealed and become common knowledge. As Zundel said, I wouldn't want to be around when that happens. Though I think he may be exaggerating a bit.

But Israel is already walking on thin ice, Belgium and the Netherlands have filed complaints against Israel for the theft and destruction of aid materials in Palestine and have been wanting to remove the Israeli ambassade.

[Revisionist]

Look at mainstream holocaust youtube video comments. There are videos where revisionist comments actually outnumber the believers!

I think we can thank the chans for spreading revisionism, because it confronts many people with dissenting opinions.

[HeiligeSturm]

While some people still fanatically defend the absurdities in the "official" story line, more and more people seem to be awaken to question it.
One excellent point is: If the Holocaust story is true, why laws are made to forbid questioning it?

[Atigun]

My humble opinion but from what I've seen in the comments sections of Youtube videos and remarks made elsewhere, the 'hoaxers/hasbarats have been given instructions not to engage in direct debate with any revisionists. Their comments seem to refer mainly to vague and unsupported claims for a genocide "in the East" or straight ad hominem personal insults. Nothing scientific about that statement, just the general impression that I've gotten over the last year or so. I did see one complaint from a hoaxer/hasbarat that the eeevul "deniers" had spread their "poison" to millions of innocent people. Yes, he did in fact say "millions." I took his lamentations as excellent news.

[borjastick]

So here's the focus of my OP -

My questions are these; Are we far from tipping point? What does tipping point mean? How will tipping point manifest itself in reality?

[Elroy]

What I have always found is that the blogger sites and official agencies send out scouts to all History and War sites as well as Holocaust sites and scan for any dissent and then launch into what they call "debates" usually full of ad himenim and spam.

They cite articles without truthful information- except the counter to them is usually in the form of a book or vid which the average person will not read.

For example yesterday a scout posted "66 questions to deniers" from Nizkor and claimed we refused to answer them. The questions themselves were absurd meant to draw attention away from the facts but to answer them thoroughly would require lengthy essays.

As for "tipping point" I do not think that is anytime soon. The average person in the street does not know anything about the Holocaust but blindly accept it as true and swallow the hate speech garbage and that anybody challenging it must be a "Nazi"- that is- as they have been sold what that means (also a lie).

All of the people I know blindly accept it and think we are insane with no evidence at all.

It's not educated people on the topic that need to be convinced for tipping point it is the average person in the street. Of course victory in academic circles is a necessary first step to making it common knowledge.

I do not see tipping point anytime soon. The deniers might overwhelm the believers or promoters in the comments sections- that just points to the fact that deniers outnumber knowledgable people on the other side. But that is not representative of the average person who believes by default and aren't ever present on the comments section of any article or video- they never even read them!

[Vogels]

The ADL keeps statistics on holocaust belief and denial by country and by age.
http://global100.adl.org/info/holocaust_info

As can be seen, holocaust awareness and belief is highly concentrated in western countries. In Asia and Africa, less than 50% of people have heard about the holocaust, and around half of those who did hear about it think it was exaggerated.

Of young people (aged 18-34), about 80% of the people who have heard about the holocaust think it is exaggerated or a myth. These numbers are for the entire world, so I personally think that this is due to high fertility rates for holocaust denying muslims, rather than the intellectual efforts of revisionists. Globally, the tipping point is clearly in sight, but I'm not so sure about western countries.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find a way to download the raw data, so that I could analyze further it for myself.

[Pia Kahn]

It's difficult to tell because it's such a large taboo that hardly anyone is going to talk honestly about it. I don't know anybody personally who doesn't believe and those who don't won't admit to their disbelief because this could lead straight into jail.

However, I have the feeling that something is changing.

There is another topic which is also a taboo, 9/11. I recently talked with colleagues of mine about it and they were open to the arguments. My colleagues asked me for evidence so I directed them to architects and engineer for 9/11 truth and showed them the scientific publications. I was not ridiculed or ostracised. In fact, they thanked me for the information. We have almost reached the tipping point for 9/11. We still have a long way to go for the holocaust.

[Revisionist]

https://news.rpi.edu/luwakkey/2902

Scientists at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute have found that when just 10 percent of the population holds an unshakable belief, their belief will always be adopted by the majority of the society.

This is the tipping point we need to reach. One of the reason why I consider the dominance of revisionists in yt comments as a huge victory. I still think we have a long way to go but the progress is considering the circumstances quite good.


What I'm interested is, when we have huge numbers of the western populations being revisionists, how the orthodoxians will act.

They can:
1) confront us in a public debate.
Think of the Zundel case. It spread revisionist viewpoints and caused the Leuchter report. Similiar thing would happen again.
2) continue to ignore us
we are still presenting our viewpoints and continue to convince people. But revisionists can say that they have no arguments so they avoid confrontation.

[Elroy]

The ADL keeps statistics on holocaust belief and denial by country and by age.
http://global100.adl.org/info/holocaust_info

As can be seen, holocaust awareness and belief is highly concentrated in western countries. In Asia and Africa, less than 50% of people have heard about the holocaust, and around half of those who did hear about it think it was exaggerated.

Of young people (aged 18-34), about 80% of the people who have heard about the holocaust think it is exaggerated or a myth. These numbers are for the entire world, so I personally think that this is due to high fertility rates for holocaust denying muslims, rather than the intellectual efforts of revisionists. Globally, the tipping point is clearly in sight, but I'm not so sure about western countries.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find a way to download the raw data, so that I could analyze further it for myself.

Two points...

The muslims are the new target for annihilation- their opinions are worthless with regards to the myth for the reason that anything they say is nullified as a totally removed society.

Second and most importantly- only the Western world- the capitalist democracy's (and also Russia's) opinion counts. And the Christian-Jewish world in general.

This is because the Holocaust is now THE primary religious myth of the Western Capitalist-democracy's (and formerly the Soviet Union and by extension Russian Federation today) used for social control and imperial war propagation. And supercedes Judaism and Christianity (religion 1.0) as religion 2.0.

It doesn't matter what people outside of the realm for which the Holocaust is supposed to polarise the people think- the only thing that matters is that the initial victims (the German's and Austrian's) think and the global powers that use it think.

Confining to the West- we see it almost replete. Go down any street in Australia and ask people if they believe in the Holocaust...

They unanimously say yes. They unanimously don't really care but consider anything "nazi" to be the ultimate evil and any challenge to that they unaminously call "insane".

When the average person in he street is awakened to the fact that the whole thing is a lie more than not- and more important awakened to the importance of it- then we'll see tipping point.

Tipping point would be reached straight away with a level playing field- hence total censorship and persecution!

When you review the Zundel affair and how that went down it is actually unbelievable that the myth survived that. People will believe what they are told to and nobody from a victorious nation will want to accept that they were the bad guys in the most massive war in history and they will not accept anything other than the notion that their enemies are evil.

Try telling a religious person that Jesus never existed and that all the religions are in fact the same structure evolved over millenia with common origin and that they are all astronomical in origin- "heretic" is what you get.

With the Holocaust myth it is no different. They will continue to believe, just as billions of people still believe in the original religious myths 1500, 2000 and 4000 years after their inception!

[borjastick]

Try telling a religious person that Jesus never existed and that all the religions are in fact the same structure evolved over millenia with common origin and that they are all astronomical in origin- "heretic" is what you get.

With the Holocaust myth it is no different. They will continue to believe, just as billions of people still believe in the original religious myths 1500, 2000 and 4000 years after their inception!

- Elroy

Elroy you make some good points but on this one I disagree. You see for the most part people aren't trying to break down traditional religious beliefs. Normal religion is just there and apart from some mad fundamentalists people accept their religion or not.

The holocaust is entirely different. We have evidence and facts to break it down. There is an active movement against the lies. We are making progress. Organically, like osmosis, we can and will get significant shifts in western opinion on it in short order. And what joy it is that we are helped by none other than the jews themselves. A more self imploding bunch the world has never seen. For centuries they have been hated and hounded, and they do what exactly. Change their beliefs, behaviour, dress and attitudes? No. They continue to push and press, use and abuse (Hollystein anyone?) and of course the more the israelis do what israelis do the world continues to dislike jews. Even though Lenny Goldman around the corner from you and me is probably a thoroughly decent and likeable chap.

All of this means that more and more people are opening up to the lies of these people about the holocaust.

I think the tide has absolutely turned and it ain't coming back in anytime soon fella!

[Elroy]

Elroy you make some good points but on this one I disagree. You see for the most part people aren't trying to break down traditional religious beliefs. Normal religion is just there and apart from some mad fundamentalists people accept their religion or not.

True, for the most part they are not but some certainly are and for good cause.

The holocaust is entirely different.

It is precisely the same. A faith based belief, flying in the face of all available evidence, with zero (real) supporting evidence. Actually not "precisely"- the spiritual original religious beliefs were "first order religions"- religion 1.0. The Holocaust is the mother of all second order religious beliefs "religion 2.0" a category encompassing all "wartime atrocity propaganda".

We have evidence and facts to break it down. There is an active movement against the lies. We are making progress.

The evidence and facts to break it down are near complete for the Holocaust and are totally complete for the spiritual religious myths. There is an active movement against those as well (less centralised) which is as old as it has been possible to challenge them (and in a minor way beforehand). The anti-religious movement is also making progress- today the scales are almost "tipped" there in the Western world. Which is why we need second order religious myths.

Organically, like osmosis, we can and will get significant shifts in western opinion on it in short order. And what joy it is that we are helped by none other than the jews themselves. A more self imploding bunch the world has never seen. For centuries they have been hated and hounded, and they do what exactly. Change their beliefs, behaviour, dress and attitudes? No.

No dispute here.

They continue to push and press, use and abuse (Hollystein anyone?) and of course the more the israelis do what israelis do the world continues to dislike jews.

Again- when you consider the "Western world"- the part of the world where cohesion is supposed to be kept- I find Jew's are held as the "best" people by most in one way or another and pro-Israeli is everywhere helped out by the muslims own shortcomings but mostly by Jewish-Christian anti-muslim propaganda and the Holocaust myth.

Even though Lenny Goldman around the corner from you and me is probably a thoroughly decent and likeable chap.

Agreed- those who claim all Jews are inherently evil are foolish.

All of this means that more and more people are opening up to the lies of these people about the holocaust.

In some ways I see the Holocaust strengthened because as the noose of reality has tightened so has the propaganda...



Borjastik please let me articulate better the equation I make with the Holocaust and the religions...

Religion itself was the most natural thing that all independent cave man peoples leapt to. It is the evolutionary way for an emergent intelligent being to explain the world before they have the tools or the insight to be able to explain them scientifically. Originally there was a "God" to explain every little thing. Over time, more and more phenomena are explained by fewer and fewer Gods.

The strain of religion which dominates our world today (Judeo-Christianity/Islam) are all mother/daughter of each other in that order and themselves are daughters of all the religious myths in the old world right back to the ancient Egyptians as can be demonstrated and probably to the Sumerian's as well.

It was originally developed as a "farming tool" and served this purpose from Egypt to the origin of Christianity.

This was achieved by creating the stories which in Christian terms we call the "Gospel's" in order to track the Sun and planets (astrology) as they pass through the constellations.

The astronomical reality can be shown in explicit detail as can the evolution of the religious strain throughout time (astronomical theology and comparative religion respectively)- there exists almost as much literature on this as the revisionist works (link if interested anyone)..

But the main purpose for the inception of the religious myths and the propagation of them since these early times is for 2 things.. "Social control over subjects through spiritual fraud" and "Imperial war propagation".

In the muslim world the people might still be prepared to go to war for "God", but not so in the Western world.

Judeo-Christian Western world is no longer willing to go and kill people anymore because "God" wants them too and their enemies are the Devil.

Enter "Religion 2,0" or "Atrocity propaganda"

Whereas the original religious myths could never offer any better explanation to the above points than "the devil did it"- the devil erased all record of Christ's existence, the devil made the stars tell the exact stories of the bible, the devil made the God's and myths of all past religions all the same...

The Holocaust- as the ultimate example of religion 2.0 actually tries to "convince" the worshipper that it is an actual historical event based on "science" and observable facts- religion in the "age of reason".

For this reason it is able to cross all other first order religious barriers and even into the atheist community who "think" they are liberated from religion. It's purpose takes over from where the original Judaism (and Christianity which is totally subjugated to Judaism now by the myth) left off..

Social control- and PRO war.

It polarises it's believers into what might be coined evil in the false belief that it is good. And that "good" is evil.

Just as how Dawkins explains religion as a "memetic disease"- so is the Holocaust myth. It is a disease of the mind infecting people with a massively high mortality rate, resistant to the antibodies and poor prognosis for cure.

As an aside- the case of Judaism is an interesting differential because this evolution took place amongst a small numerically inferior population who migrated through host places rather than a larger landed one. As a result they coded for business, usury, strong marriage amongst Jews, nepotism etc- qualities which helped them thrive as merchants on their travels and to survive ethnogentically- if they did not do this- they would have ceased to exist!

Hitler summed that up as "Judaism is nothing more than the doctrine to preserve the Jewish race"- and today so is the Holocaust. It's "soft war".

This inception of this religion as innocuous as it was then- of a small outnumbered people trying to survive amongst larger populations and succeed is the seed of the evolutionary development of the global narcissistic absolute tyranny that the world finds itself in today. The one that controls what everybody has to think and makes them to believe that they are free- among other traps.

[Spatton]

With the Holocaust myth it is no different. They will continue to believe, just as billions of people still believe in the original religious myths 1500, 2000 and 4000 years after their inception!

I disagree. Belief systems are held up by emotion, a religion stays around that long because it provides comfort to its believers (a religion that doesn't provide an afterlife would instantly die out for instance.) That's why a lot of the holocaust believers using appeals to emotion (denying the holocaust is a lack of empathy, how can you say it didn't happen, all those poor poor death jews) but we're already seeing new generations care less and less about the holocaust. I remember reading an article where jewish holocaust survivors even worry about this. And why should future generations care more about the deaths of the holocaust than they do about other historical tragedies? My high school history told us that eventually people would just see Hitler as just another historical figure and probably a great leader rather than a monster. She gave Ceasar as an example, he killed thousands of gauls but he is mostly celebrated as a great general. Another example is Charlemagne, who basically genocided pagan saxon in modern Germany and we aren't even taught this in school (or maybe I wasn't paying attention during this lesson).

At some point care for the holocaust will have eroded away. But the laws are still there and when they put another 80 year old woman in prison for speaking her mind people will start speaking out against this and with the laws abolished we can finally have honest conversation about the holocaust.

Maybe there's no singular tipping point but multiple and I think a mayor tipping point will be when there are no more people alive who lived through the holocaust one way or another.

[Elroy]

With the Holocaust myth it is no different. They will continue to believe, just as billions of people still believe in the original religious myths 1500, 2000 and 4000 years after their inception!

I disagree. Belief systems are held up by emotion, a religion stays around that long because it provides comfort to its believers (a religion that doesn't provide an afterlife would instantly die out for instance.) That's why a lot of the holocaust believers using appeals to emotion (denying the holocaust is a lack of empathy, how can you say it didn't happen, all those poor poor death jews) but we're already seeing new generations care less and less about the holocaust. I remember reading an article where jewish holocaust survivors even worry about this. And why should future generations care more about the deaths of the holocaust than they do about other historical tragedies? My high school history told us that eventually people would just see Hitler as just another historical figure and probably a great leader rather than a monster. She gave Ceasar as an example, he killed thousands of gauls but he is mostly celebrated as a great general. Another example is Charlemagne, who basically genocided pagan saxon in modern Germany and we aren't even taught this in school (or maybe I wasn't paying attention during this lesson).

At some point care for the holocaust will have eroded away. But the laws are still there and when they put another 80 year old woman in prison for speaking her mind people will start speaking out against this and with the laws abolished we can finally have honest conversation about the holocaust.

Maybe there's no singular tipping point but multiple and I think a mayor tipping point will be when there are no more people alive who lived through the holocaust one way or another.

I respect your opinion of course as it may turn out to be so. The "afterlife" part of religious beleifs is certainly a spiritual fraud that provides the strongest of pulls for one to take faith. However the pull of the notion that the Holocaust is "overwhelmingly evidenced- materialistically, documentrarily and by witnesses that are independently documented"- may be fraudulent, but this belief is ingrained so strongly that opposition appears insane.

I think the fact that care about the Holocaust IS dwindling actually works to solidify the myth after a long long time has gone by. This is because a lack of care (which is most people today) detracts people from actually learning for themselves that the whole thing is a lie.

In a few hours anybody can "rationally" liberate themselves from the "1.0" religious beliefs. But liberation from the Holocaust Myth takes months upon months of solid reading and viewing. People will just not take that time. The "Big Lie" technique holds true I think- that the people will continue to think upon hearing some facts that there must be some other explanation.

Once memory of the Holocaust is gone- the work is done- it has become an embedded myth.

The thing about the Holocaust Myth is that it's not just about the German's or the victims it has helped annihilate since.. It is about "Democracy". It successfully covers the truthfulness about political and economic realities masking the true totalitarian nature of our democracy's which are under a Jewish hegemony.

If the Holocaust Myth should break- the social order will inevitably be called into question- the common person does not realise the importance of the myth in this regard and why the myth must be upheld. It is the new "myth" that has replaced Christianity now largely in the West diverting the people back toward Jewish interests.

Another point is that "National pride" is a very very strong "pull" as well- like afterlife.

People cannot accept that in the most brutal war in history that we were or might have been "the bad guy" or that we went to war blindly with a nation that did not want war at any cost and killed a whole lot of people- the Holocaust Myth covers these other realities providing the comfortable good vs evil duality with us positioned at the good extreme of the moral compass.

I do not think it's going anywhere soon- the propaganda is immense.