Dalton's "Death Matrix"

[Archie]

In Thomas Dalton's book Debating the Holocaust, he introduces a concept he calls the "death matrix." It's basically just a breakdown of the six million number by time and by category (camps, shootings, ghettos). Raul Hilberg provided some breakdowns of this type in his book, seemingly the only author to ever do this.

Hilberg's By Category Numbers
Camps 2,900,000
Shootings 1,400,000
Ghettos 800,000
Total 5,100,000

Hilberg's By Year Numbers
Pre 1941 <100,000
1941 1,100,000
1942 2,600,000
1943 600,000
1944 600,000
1945 100,000+
Total 5,100,000

Dalton's idea is to combine the two tables together into one table, forming the "Death Matrix." And he does it with 6,000,000 instead of Hilberg's 5,100,000.

Dalton's By Category Numbers (suggested)
Camps 3,400,000 (3M extermination camps, 0.4M other camps)
Shootings 1,600,000
Ghettos 1,000,000
Total 6,000,000

Dalton's By Year Numbers (suggested)
Pre 1941 120,000
1941 945,000
1942 3,385,000
1943 745,000
1944 720,000
1945 85,000
Total 6,000,000

Dalton then does a big combined table and also attempts to do monthly estimates. Note that he does not suggest these numbers are "correct,' his goal is simply to clarify what it is that's being (implicitly) claimed. His monthly model two noticeable peaks, one in the second half of 1942, the other in 1944. Dalton comments,

In fact even this much detail, as basic as it is, goes well beyond anything readily found in the massive corpus of traditional literature... The vast majority of writers do not even begin to address the topic this way. I can only speculate why this is so. Two possible reasons come to mind. First, the details necessary to confirm such numbers are lacking, thus putting the reconciliation of such calculations beyond the ability of the researchers--in which case, though, how can they justify the 6 million, not to mention their claim about the "most well-documented event in history"? The alternative possibility is that they do not want to do this, because it will bring into harsh relief the deficiencies of the standard view.

Dalton goes on to provide a nice discussion of these supposed million or so ghetto deaths (an issue which doesn't get much attention). There seems to be no support for this whatsoever but they need that extra million to pad out the numbers. Likewise with the "shooting" numbers.

One issue that popped out to me with this which I don't think Dalton mentions is how front-loaded the deaths are chronologically. Most of the six million would have had to have died by the end of 1942. Dalton's numbers suggest 4.45M (!) through 1942 and only 1.55M for 1943-45. (Hilberg's split with his lower numbers is 3.8M and 1.3M). One could play around with the numbers some, but this front-loading is inevitable because the Einsatzgruppen/shooting deaths would have to be mostly 1941, 1942. The Chelmno deaths are all early. And the Reinhardt camp deaths would be mostly the second half of 1942 with some spilling over to 1943. By late 1943, Auschwitz would have been the only operational extermination camp.

Now, I want to compare this with the Zionist wartime propaganda.

From the NYT's report on 2 Mar 1943 of a rally to save the Jews of Europe,

"Immediate action by the United Nations to save as many as possible of the five million Jews threatened with extermination by Adolf Hitler and to halt the liquidation of European Jews by the Nazis was demanded at a mass demonstration of Christians and Jews in Madison Square Garden last night."

"...equally appalling is fact that those who proclaim the Four Freedoms have so far done very little to secure even the freedom to live for 6,000,000 of their Jewish fellow men by readiness to rescue those who might still escape Nazi torture and butchery.

"Two million human beings, merely because they are Jews, have already been murdered by every fiendish means which Hitler could devise. Millions of other Jews in Central and Eastern Europe face immediate destruction."

"Two million Jews have already been exterminated."

NYT, April, 20, 1943 (two articles on page 11)

"Two million Jews have been wiped out since the Nazis began their march through Europe in 1939 and five million more are in immediate danger of execution."

"The Jewish Agency for Palestine, in a memorandum addressed to the Bermuda Refugee Conference yesterday, urged that measures of rescue be launched immediately on behalf of 4,000,000 Jews estimated to be still surviving in Nazi-occupied areas."

There are quite a few examples like this from early to mid 1943 where they say 2M Jews have been killed and 4M (or 5M) are in danger. (There's another example in this thread here: https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13655).

In order for the holocaust narrative to be true, this 2,000,000 number would a have to be a severe understatement. The real number would need to be more than double that. The other related point is that we see that the Zionists believed that there were some 4M Jews still there to be killed.

[Sannhet]

Dalton's By Category Numbers (suggested)
Camps 3,400,000 (3M extermination camps, 0.4M other camps)
Shootings 1,600,000
Ghettos 1,000,000
Total 6,000,000

Dalton's By Year Numbers (suggested)
Pre 1941 120,000
1941 945,000
1942 3,385,000
1943 745,000
1944 720,000
1945 85,000
Total 6,000,000

Dalton then does a big combined table and also attempts to do monthly estimates. Note that he does not suggest these numbers are "correct,' his goal is simply to clarify what it is that's being (implicitly) claimed.

It would be of use to publish Revisionist counter-estimates by month or quarter for actual Jewish losses broken down by various causes. (The first time this was attempted was the book-length population-statistical survey The Dissolution of East European Jewry [1983], banned permanently for sale via Amazon in 2017.)

Then, for good measure, also do German losses per quarter up through 1947, also broken down by cause of death. The big surprise of World War Two is actual Jewish and German population losses as a % of total population in Europe may be nearly the same.

[Sannhet]

Dalton's By Year Numbers (suggested)
Pre 1941 120,000
1941 945,000
1942 3,385,000
1943 745,000
1944 720,000
1945 85,000
Total 6,000,000

Now, I want to compare this with the Zionist wartime propaganda. [...]

"Two million Jews have already been exterminated."

NYT, April, 20, 1943 (two articles on page 11) "Two million Jews have been wiped out since the Nazis began their march through Europe in 1939 and [b]five million more are in immediate danger of execution." [...]

There are quite a few examples like this from early to mid 1943 where they say 2M Jews have been killed and 4M (or 5M) are in danger.

When I first read through your comments I thought the point was that Holocaust death-estimates are intrinsically tied into Jewish propaganda strands from as early as 1943 or even 1942 (and how would Jewish activists in America possibly have known that 2 million had died by early 1943?), as if to justify them, byt front-loading the deaths. But then you seem to be making the opposite point, that even the extreme 'Save The Jews' propaganda is too low for Hillberg and others (implicitly).

[Lamprecht]

Raul Hilberg provided some breakdowns of this type in his book, seemingly the only author to ever do this.

The Institut für Zeitgeschichte (IfZ) also did something like this.



From "Dissecting the Holocaust": http://archive.fo/Q1iK0#selection-22262.0-22262.1

There is also this breakdown from JewishVirtualLibrary:

Jewish Loss by Location of Death

Auschwitz complex (including Birkenau, Monowitz, and subcamps): approximately 1 million

Treblinka: approximately 925,000

Belzec: 434,508

Sobibor: at least 167,000

Chelmno: 156,000–172,000

Shooting operations at various locations in central and southern German-occupied Poland (the so-called Government General): at least 200,000

Shooting operations in German-annexed western Poland (District Wartheland): at least 20,000

Deaths in other facilities that the Germans designated as concentration camps: at least 150,000

Shooting operations and gas wagons at hundreds of locations in the German-occupied Soviet Union: at least 1.3 million

Shooting operations in the Soviet Union (German, Austrian, Czech Jews deported to the Soviet Union): approximately 55,000

Shooting operations and gas wagons in Serbia: at least 15,088

Shot or tortured to death in Croatia under the Ustaša regime: 23,000–25,000

Deaths in ghettos: at least 800,000

Other*: at least 500,000

*"Other" includes, for example, persons killed in shooting operations in Poland in 1939–1940; as partisans in Yugoslavia, Greece, Italy, France or Belgium; in labor battalions in Hungary; during antisemitic actions in Germany and Austria before the war; by the Iron Guard in Romania, 1940–1941; and on evacuation marches from concentration camps and labor camps in the last six months of World War II. It also includes people caught in hiding and killed in Poland, Serbia, and elsewhere in German-occupied Europe.

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/do ... -holocaust / http://archive.fo/dQBej

[Archie]

Dalton's By Year Numbers (suggested)
Pre 1941 120,000
1941 945,000
1942 3,385,000
1943 745,000
1944 720,000
1945 85,000
Total 6,000,000

Now, I want to compare this with the Zionist wartime propaganda. [...]

"Two million Jews have already been exterminated."

NYT, April, 20, 1943 (two articles on page 11) "Two million Jews have been wiped out since the Nazis began their march through Europe in 1939 and [b]five million more are in immediate danger of execution." [...]

There are quite a few examples like this from early to mid 1943 where they say 2M Jews have been killed and 4M (or 5M) are in danger.

When I first read through your comments I thought the point was that Holocaust death-estimates are intrinsically tied into Jewish propaganda strands from as early as 1943 or even 1942 (and how would Jewish activists in America possibly have known that 2 million had died by early 1943?), as if to justify them, byt front-loading the deaths. But then you seem to be making the opposite point, that even the extreme 'Save The Jews' propaganda is too low for Hillberg and others (implicitly).

I think they were anchored in the six million number from pretty early in the war as the final value. So the ultimate body count I would say was intrinsically tied to the propaganda. But, yes, their numbers during the war were way behind what would be needed. Mid-war we this 2 million dead, 4 million in peril, total six million variety. With this, and I don't know how conscious this would have been, but with the two million claim I think they wanted a big number to elicit horror but the real focus was the millions of remaining Jews in Europe who needed to be saved and resettled (preferably in Palestine). This I think was the ultimate purpose and this was the hope of the Bermuda Conference that was organized in mid 1943. From this Zionist perspective then, you wouldn't really want to say that everybody's already dead because then there's nothing much to be done at that point. I found it interesting though that their own propaganda conflicts with the narrative in that it presupposes most of the Jews were still there.

Here is another earlier example from summer of 1942. At this point they were going with 1M dead out of a potential 6-7 million. The usual number of Jews in Europe before the war is usually a bit higher, closer to 10M. I assume the 6-7 million would be those considered to be in imminent danger and so it doesn't include those in Britain, those deep in Russia, etc.

NYT June 30, 1942 (from London)
"The Germans have massacred more than 1,000,000 Jews since the war began in carrying out Adolf Hitler's proclaimed policy of exterminating the people,"
"Thus about one-sixth of the pre-war Jewish population in Europe, estimated at 6,000,000 to 7,000,000 persons, had been wiped out in less than three years."

From this point on they seem to have stuck with this 6 million total. They started out saying 1M dead. Then they bumped it up to 2M. And by the end we're miraculously at six (basically all of them).

[Hannover]

Archie stated:

I think they were anchored in the six million number from pretty early in the war as the final value. So the ultimate body count I would say was intrinsically tied to the propaganda.

The fact is that Jews have been claiming 6,000,000 dead Jews since at least 1823.
See newspaper records, click here & scroll down:
https://imgur.com/a/0LFFF

- Hannover

Only lies require censorship.