The most important Photograph / corpse color

[Kingfisher]

Let's get back on topic, which is why people report bluish corpse colour.

It's clear that both cyanide and CO cause colourings that could never be reported as blue by a normally-sighted person in reasonably bright light.

Fritz Berg has rightly commented that skin colour is never objectively blue, but we all know that veins and bruises, as well as "blue" babies, are commonly called "blue" based on perception. So it not unreasonable that someone might report skin colour of a corpse, under certain circumstances, as "bluish". Other factors influencing such a report would be poor light, distance in time from the event, influence of other reports and peer pressure. Also remember that a largish proportion of males, but few females, are colour-blind.

But the killer point remains that CO and cyanide poisoning do not cause this type of ambiguous colouring, but bright reds. Reports of bluish corpses are not necessarily untrue, but they are strong evidence against gassing.

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

Copy-cat Testimony

What is clear today after many excellent posts here on CODOH is that the so-called "eyewitnesses" knew what kind of testimony was expected from them--and supplied it. Whatever they had actually seen during the war was distorted or totally falsified to help the prosecutors. If the eyewitnesses had said anything to the contrary, they would have implicated themselves as mass murderers. So, they fabricated their own testimony to help the prosecutors condemn the accused and exonerate themselves, as totally innocent victims if at all possible.

The importance of "perceptions" has been stressed by others. I suggest that "suggestion" itself is another major factor as well, a kind of hypnosis. For example, we have a picture in a previous post of a baby who supposedly died of "baby blue death." There is nothing "blue" about the baby in that image at all--but people tend, without thinking or looking carefully, to go along with the suggestion that the baby is blue somehow. It is not all blue--look carefully! The same thing applies to "cyanosis"--just look carefully, and that includes looking carefully at those supposed "blue" veins in your hands or wherever.

The illusion fails when one looks closely and carefully--but more importantly, when the same coloring covers a large area and can be easily viewed.


Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!

[Balsamo]

I hate to participate in mister berg's obession for corpses colour, but again...
Please don't fall on me on prooves of gaz chambers, as this topic supposed their existance for its demontration.
Now supposed that those people were indeed gased, when the gas starts to spread, it is quite obvious that a panic spread among the victims at the same time.
If this is the case, it seems logical that some would die from suffocation even before the gas could kill them.
Again, in this case, those victims, the weakest could have appeared bluish, but untouched by the Zyclon B as having died before the contamination could be completed.

Just a 2 cents question here...

[Cloud]

Is it easier to trick five mice to take the cheese from a mousetrap:

Added: Thursday, February 15, 2007
Category: funny animal pictures Rating: 6.34 - Views: 85,059

Extremely effective mouse trap? or really stupid mice ?

...or 1,000+ Jews to squeeze into a room to die, day in and day out?

Does anyone know?

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

Where does Balsamo get his notion that the victims of suffocation should appear blue or bluish? The fact is that suffocation does not produce bluish coloring either--just check the forensic patholgy handbooks or textbooks.

I used to believe myself, falsely, that suffocation would cause a bluish discoloration but it simply does not. Some cyanosis may be visible on small parts of a suffocation victim--but that is it, and those small areas of the corpse will not really be blue but simply pale or gray and recognizable only to experienced observers.


Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything athttp://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!

[Goethe]

Cloud wonders:

Extremely effective mouse trap? or really stupid mice ?

Or really hungry mice. Perhaps sibling rivalry.

Mr. Balsamo, are you telling everyone that the copious "testimonies" alleging that blue corpses were the result of gassing with Zyklon-B are lies? "Testmonies" like these are then from the mouths of liars? viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7355

[astro3]

There's a valuable article by Thomas Kues which should not go unnoticed:
On the Cherry Pink Discoloration of Livor Mortis in Fatal Cases of Carbon Monoxide Poisoning: Smith's Report, April 2009
http://codoh.com/sites/default/files/do ... sr_160.pdf
This, first of all puts Mr Berg into History! His two fundamental achivements according to Mr Kues were:
1. pointing out that diesel gas is non-lethal (1983)
2. and that CO deaths give a bright pink colour.

...in contrast to the claims of Kurt Gerstein, who wrote in 1945 that the corpses from the alleged gas chambers at Belzec were “bluish.” In 2004 the late Charles Provan published an article (“The Blue Color of the Jewish Victims at Belzec Death Camp”) in which he attempted to rationalize the witness statements of Gerstein and others, stating that the “bluish” color was a result of cyanosis, and listing a number of quotations from medical literature indicating that cherry pink discoloration is rare and often absent in cases of CO poisoning. Berg then published an online rebuttal, “Bluewomen on the beach,” in which he thoroughly discussed the issue of cyanosis, and also remarked that the literature quoted by Provan appears to deal mainly with cases in which the victim was discovered alive and received treatment. Antirevisionists are fond of quotes such as “cherry-red discolouration in
CO poisoning is quite rare” (The Lancet, vol. 352, p. 1154) and “The classic ‘cherry-red’ skin coloration is actually rare, and patients are more likely to appear pale or cyanotic” (The Journal of Emergency Medicine,Vol. 1, 1984) but tend to steer away from such revealing statements as: “the cherry-pink colour that is described to be a classical feature of CO poisoning, but rarely seen in living patients” (Medicine, Vol. 35, No. 11, p. 605; italics mine). The fact is that while cherry pink discoloration may be rare in clinical cases of CO poisoning, it is as good as always present in fatal ones.

How often is this bright pink found? Mr Kues again:

Adding together the statistics of the three larger postmortem surveys summarized above, we find that cherry pink discolouration of livor mortis appeared in 544 of 585, ie 93% of the cases. We might however surmise that the rate would be even higher, at least around 95%, if cases involving severe burning and advanced decomposition were eliminated.

So, that's it: 95%. Eat your heart out, Nick Terry.
There is a lot of testimony in this article about bogus 'witnesses' claiming to have seen blue bodies after CO-death, indeed this article may be the best source for such quotes.
..................................................
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There are brilliant articles like this one in Smith's Report that are not separately indexed and so are 'lost, ie the CODOH search-engine http://codoh.com/library/query will not find them.

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

Special thanks to Astro3 for his kind words about my work and especially my two "achievements."

Although I had made those two points already in 1983 where they appeared in my essay "Diesel Gas Chambers: Myth within a Myth" in 1984--it took almost thirty more years before really persuasive reference material was available through the internet--such as excellent color photos that anyone can look at. The medical evidence today is so strong that even with all of the censorship and smart-Alec tricks and sniping from NIZKOR and people like Roberto Muehlenkamp, their game is over.

As a serious, scholarly issue, I think the holocaust really has been exposed as an extremely dirty hoax--but now the public relations struggle remains. How can we even reach the masses when nearly all of the information outlets are so tightly controlled by ruthless fanatics for whom the "holocaust" is a matter of life and death? I must admit to being at a loss for a great answer--but with the internet and YouTube, we still have a chance. Before too long, however, I am afraid we will have a major world war to prevent, as Hillary has told us, another "Holocaust." Simply delving into more and more holocaust-related trivia, although important, will NOT get us far enough.

Are we prepared to go to the streets and raise hell out there? I am a bit old myself for that stuff but perhaps newer voices will emerge and I can still help. The message must be simple and clear and irrefutable. Today, we have such a message. Contact me at [email protected] if you are at all interested in doing something in a more public way.


Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at: http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

What follows is the largest image I can include here (for technical reasons) of some of the fingertips from a photo from the Wikepdia essay about cyanosis that is linked on this forum. Readers can enlarge the image many times more with "Conrol +" and/or other commands.Some of the cyanotic areas are enlarged without any tampering with the color:


The enlarged view is clearly NOT blue at all--but a warm-grey instead. That warm grey color puts it on the red end of the color spectrum and about as far from blue as possible.

The very same procedure can be used with any image to remove the psychological effect of surrounding colors on the viewer's perceptions. Just crop out the non-cyanotic areas. It will confirm again and again for objects photographed in normal light that any perceived "blueness" is not really there at all--but is merely a psychological effect caused by contrast with surrounding normal skin colors. Readers miay enlarge the images even more to confirm the phenomenon for themselves.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at: http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!

[Balsamo]

Well i have read your arguments on Rodoh, and saw that Roberto M gave you some example of what is meant when speaking of "bluish"...
You chose to requalify this colour into

clearly NOT blue at all--but a warm-grey instead

But i agree, death by suffocation or asphyxiation does not turn the victim into a smurf...which seems the only creature you would accept as "bluish".

In the same logic, i will contest the "cherry pink" colour unless you provide me with a cherry that is actually PINK...(PS. i know it is nonsense )



Now w all agree with mister Berg that this poor baby is not a smurf...still the consensus call this colour "bluish", well i do anyway. I see no objection if mister Berg wants to call it "warm grey"...

Maybe mister Berg is a doctor, but in France a cyanosis (cyanose) is defined as

La cyanose est l'apparition d'une coloration bleuâtre de la peau causée par un trouble de la circulation, par une altération de l'oxyhémoglobine ou par un trouble de l'hématose.
La cyanose peut être la conséquence, entre autres, de troubles pulmonaires, de malformations cardiaques congénitales, d'une mauvaise circulation du sang, d'une anémie ou d'une intoxication

the bolded part says : " a bluish coloration of the skin"...use google translator for the rest as it is too medical for me to translate...

Now watch and read the name of the colour :



And compare with the name of CYANOSIS
Maybe the medical history tried to fool the rest of the world when giving this scientific name...

Am i the only one who is asking myself "what is wrong with mister Berg" ?

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

There is nothing wrong with Mister Berg. Do your homework, Balsamo, which in this case involves going to my website. Try to grasp the discussion of cyanosis there. Any perceived "blue" coloring is merely a psychological illusion--however, many photos are generated today in hospital settings using special BLUE lights which give an unnatural blueish glow to almost everything,--just as in your picture.

FPB

[Dresden]

FPBerg said:

"Any perceived "blue" coloring is merely a psychological illusion"

It doesn't matter what "makes" them look bluish, all that matters is whether or not they "look" bluish.

" many photos are generated today in hospital settings using special BLUE lights which give an unnatural blueish glow to almost everything,--just as in your picture"

If it's the lighting, why don't the doctor's hands look blue?

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

The doctor's hands are covered with gloves for one thing. But even without gloves, unless there is some of the genuine lack of color or even warm greyness from cyanosis, the blue light has little to enhance and make blue.

FPB

[Dresden]

FPBerg said:

"The doctor's hands are covered with gloves for one thing"

Not his wrist.

"But even without gloves, unless there is some of the genuine lack of color or even warm greyness from cyanosis, the blue light has little to enhance and make blue"

Please don't take offense, Mr. Berg, I'm only playing Devil's advocate when I say most people would laugh at your "hate filled","Neo-Nazi", "anti-semitic" mental backflips!

The baby in Balsamo's photo could easily be described as "bluish".
The arms and stomach are pinkish; the legs and face "look" bluish.

If I saw that baby at the hospital, and then had to describe it later, in one word.....I would say "bluish".

[Hannover]

I agree, the baby could easily be described as 'bluish', but hardly 'blue' as in the lying 'eyewitnesses' statements.

Most importantly to the 'holocaust' debate, the alleged method of 'holocaust extermination' is so absurd as to render further discussion unnecessary.

- Hannover