Can anyone quickly get me up to speed on Auschwitz tattoos?

[cold beer]

I'm listening to an audio of a survivor story claiming that the survivor was given the tattoo number 774248.
https://untpress.unt.edu/catalog/schiff-william-and-rosalie/

In this short clip it's not mentioned when he arrived.
We've been told that 80-90% of arrivals go straight to the gas chambers.
Numerous survivors say the tattoo numbers are sequential.
So how can anyone have such a high number?

[cold beer]

My apologies, I didn't anticipate finding a specific answer quickly.
Unless there's something I'm not understanding, according to this article from the museum at Auschwitz this alleged survivor could not have been tattooed with the number 774248.
http://auschwitz.org/en/museum/auschwitz-prisoners/prisoner-numbers

The last one - 202 499 - was ascribed on 18 January 1945 to a German criminal prisoner.

Also there is this from the article...

Therefore, the prisoner number allows us to determine a specific date of deportation

Is there a table available to match tattoo numbers with the date of arrival or approximate date of arrival?

[borjastick]

The whole story of tattoos at Auschwitz is a can of worms. They were not given throughout the war period, there was no official programme, no or very few real verifiable records of the numbers and amounts given and they were only given at Auschwitz. All very odd.

Carlos W Porter I think rips the story apart.

The standard line is that anyone pictured with a tattoo proves that the mass murder of jews at Auschwitz actually happened because, as you say, they claim that those not fit for use were not tattooed and were gassed immediately. Total nonsense and just one of those convenient little claims that leaves the ignorant believing the claims.

[cold beer]

The whole story of tattoos at Auschwitz is a can of worms. They were not given throughout the war period, there was no official programme, no or very few real verifiable records of the numbers and amounts given and they were only given at Auschwitz. All very odd.

Carlos W Porter I think rips the story apart.

The standard line is that anyone pictured with a tattoo proves that the mass murder of jews at Auschwitz actually happened because, as you say, they claim that those not fit for use were not tattooed and were gassed immediately. Total nonsense and just one of those convenient little claims that leaves the ignorant believing the claims.

I always wondered why any ethnic Pole who ended up in Auschwitz has never come forward with a tattoo. Shouldn't there have been thousands of them? Why is it that none of them are telling their tattoo story?

[Archie]

Certainly there were never 700,000 people registered at Auschwitz.

The War Refugee Board report goes into some detail about the numbers assigned and when by transport. It says the earliest transports of early Slovak Jews were given numbers around 29,000. And it continues up through around 174,000 in spring of 1944. It is a propaganda work of course, but on this particular point it may well be roughly accurate. It seems similar to your link which says 200k in the main series.

[cold beer]

Does the report give any useful information about the tattoo number A27633 ?

[Merlin300]

Does the report give any useful information about the tattoo number A27633 ?

There is a good source of information from the Auschwitz State Museum.
http://auschwitz.org/en/museum/auschwit ... er-numbers

Danuta Czech's book "Auschwitz Chronicles" also documents when prisoners arrived or departed, who were registered as prisoners and the
particular registration number assigned. Sometimes she notes individual numbers but usually just notes the range of consecutive numbers assigned to arriving or departing groups.


Auschwitz Chronicles is based on German records and is a very good source book. Although Ms. Czech was not a Revisionist, the book contains
solid evidence which blows apart many Believer lies.

About 400,000 people appear to have been registered into the Camp and given numbers. This figure includes large numbers of
common criminals, Roma, Poles and Soviet POWs.

Approximately 250,000 of these were transferred out of the Camp. We also know that large numbers of people were not given any number and stayed in the Camp for months, Anne Frank and her sister for example.



Good luck in tracking down A27633!

[cold beer]

There is a good source of information from the Auschwitz State Museum.
http://auschwitz.org/en/museum/auschwit ... er-numbers

The Auschwitz State Museum site is useful in a general sense, but I'm attempting to fact check a particular story and was looking for citation on when the "A" series for women ended, her alleged tattoo is near the end.

She claims she entered the camp at 5 1/2 years old and was liberated at 6 1/2. It is stated that the 'A" series starts in March (no date) but they don't provide any dates corresponding to ranges of numbers within that series online. If i want something more specific I'd need to contact them.

I'm not willing to purchase a book for this single purpose and might have to wait until I run into a survivor tale with a similar tattoo number that provides a date of arrival.

Another approach is to get a specific date(s) on the transport(s) from her previous camp to Birkenau.

[MrOlonzo]

I'm listening to an audio of a survivor story claiming that the survivor was given the tattoo number 774248.
https://untpress.unt.edu/catalog/schiff-william-and-rosalie/

In this short clip it's not mentioned when he arrived.
We've been told that 80-90% of arrivals go straight to the gas chambers.
Numerous survivors say the tattoo numbers are sequential.
So how can anyone have such a high number?

Just for fun, Elie Wiesel has been repeatedly asked for his tattoo number, but has declined.

[cold beer]

I'm listening to an audio of a survivor story claiming that the survivor was given the tattoo number 774248.
https://untpress.unt.edu/catalog/schiff-william-and-rosalie/

In this short clip it's not mentioned when he arrived.
We've been told that 80-90% of arrivals go straight to the gas chambers.
Numerous survivors say the tattoo numbers are sequential.
So how can anyone have such a high number?

Just for fun, Elie Wiesel has been repeatedly asked for his tattoo number, but has declined.

TRUE, he has the mystery tattoo.

[cold beer]

Certainly there were never 700,000 people registered at Auschwitz.

The War Refugee Board report goes into some detail about the numbers assigned and when by transport. It says the earliest transports of early Slovak Jews were given numbers around 29,000. And it continues up through around 174,000 in spring of 1944. It is a propaganda work of course, but on this particular point it may well be roughly accurate. It seems similar to your link which says 200k in the main series.

Yes but all the other series starting with letters when added in, result in a total of 400k+ tattoos.
Do you know if The War Refugee Board is available online?

[Horhug]

I'm listening to an audio of a survivor story claiming that the survivor was given the tattoo number 774248.
https://untpress.unt.edu/catalog/schiff-william-and-rosalie/

In this short clip it's not mentioned when he arrived.
We've been told that 80-90% of arrivals go straight to the gas chambers.
Numerous survivors say the tattoo numbers are sequential.
So how can anyone have such a high number?

and :

Does the report give any useful information about the tattoo number A27633 ?

and :

My apologies, I didn't anticipate finding a specific answer quickly.
Unless there's something I'm not understanding, according to this article from the museum at Auschwitz this alleged survivor could not have been tattooed with the number 774248.
http://auschwitz.org/en/museum/auschwitz-prisoners/prisoner-numbers

The last one - 202 499 - was ascribed on 18 January 1945 to a German criminal prisoner.

Also there is this from the article...

Therefore, the prisoner number allows us to determine a specific date of deportation

Is there a table available to match tattoo numbers with the date of arrival or approximate date of arrival?

The claimed Auschwitz registration number 774248 is far too high and does not appear anywhere in Danuta Czech's Auschwitz Chronicle.

The Auschwitz museum quote for the last assigned number 202499 on January 18, 1945 agrees with the Au Chronicle, as per page 785 in the 1992 hardback edition.

A German BV prisoner Engelbert Marketsch, born August 30, 1918, in Bleiberg near Villach, who is a chartered surveyor and architect by profession, is delivered from Mauthausen. He receives No. 202499. This was the last number to be assigned to a prisoner in Auschwitz.

Regarding the Auschwitz registration number A-27633 .

The official Auschwitz Museum work in five volumes, Auschwitz 1940 - 1945, Central Issues in the Camp History, Volume II, The Prisoners - Their Life and Work, on page 23 states :

Beginning in May 1944, Jewish prisoners were given the additional letters A and B to distinguish new series of registration numbers in use at the time.

These series are usually denoted with a hyphen as in A- and B- as in A-27633

According to Danuta Czech's Auschwitz Chronicle, the last mention of an A- series number being assigned was A-27752 on October 23, 1944, as per page 738.

Curiously this number was assigned to "another female Jew" who presumably arrived in a transport from Plaszow Camp, at the same time that another woman, Giza Landau received number A-26098.

If this information is accurate, it illustrates that the numbers were not always sequentially issued and some were re-used. It is worth noting in this example that one of the sources for this information is a book written by Poliakov and Wulf - The Third Reich and the Jews. Quite what source details these authors provided for Danuta Czech to use is not stated so we do not know why she cites them as a source. It could be the case that they have provided one registration number in their book assigned on the same date that Danuta Czech's Auschwitz Museum records have provided the other number - hence the anomaly perhaps.

The previous mention of an A- series number being assigned is on page 735 of the Chronicle for October 18, 1944 stating A-25640.

So, ignoring the non-sequential apparent anomaly of A-26098, it is likely that the number you are interested in, A-27633 was assigned between October 18 ( A-25640 ) and October 23, 1944. ( A-27752 )

I know of no table which compiles Danuta Czech's Auschwitz Chronicle calendar entries for arrivals and registration numbers. The data therein, although extensive, is as per usual, fragmentary and incomplete. Much of it, especially the "non registered, straight to the gas chamber" nonsense has been supposedly compiled from prisoner's so-called own records, such as the "Auschwitz Scrolls" and other dubious sources, many of which were allegedly dug up years later, in or around the sites of latrines ...

Nevertheless, it would be a very useful table to have as a handy reference guide, so if anyone fancies taking that task on, please do.


.

[cold beer]

Regarding the Auschwitz registration number A-27633 .

According to Danuta Czech's Auschwitz Chronicle, the last mention of an A- series number being assigned was A-27752 on October 23, 1944, as per page 738.

Curiously this number was assigned to "another female Jew" who presumably arrived in a transport from Plaszow Camp, at the same time that another woman, Giza Landau received number A-26098.

If this information is accurate, it illustrates that the numbers were not always sequentially issued and some were re-used. It is worth noting in this example that one of the sources for this information is a book written by Poliakov and Wulf - The Third Reich and the Jews. Quite what source details these authors provided for Danuta Czech to use is not stated so we do not know why she cites them as a source. It could be the case that they have provided one registration number in their book assigned on the same date that Danuta Czech's Auschwitz Museum records have provided the other number - hence the anomaly perhaps.

The previous mention of an A- series number being assigned is on page 735 of the Chronicle for October 18, 1944 stating A-25640.

So, ignoring the non-sequential apparent anomaly of A-26098, it is likely that the number you are interested in, A-27633 was assigned between October 18 ( A-25640 ) and October 23, 1944. ( A-27752 )

Thank you for posting, please clear up some confusion on my part as to why A-26098 is an issue.
Am i correct in understanding that both A-26098 and A-27752 assigned on October 23, 1944 according to Danuta Czech?
If so why is it not simply a case of 1100 or more numbers assigned on that same day?
How does the tattoo number A-26098 appear to illustrate that some numbers were potentially issued out of sequence as well as used more than once?

Also what is the nature of this author's work, is it a collection of various individual accounts or is it an attempt to compile a chronology of events (camp arrivals, departures etc)?

[Horhug]

Regarding the Auschwitz registration number A-27633 .

According to Danuta Czech's Auschwitz Chronicle, the last mention of an A- series number being assigned was A-27752 on October 23, 1944, as per page 738.

Curiously this number was assigned to "another female Jew" who presumably arrived in a transport from Plaszow Camp, at the same time that another woman, Giza Landau received number A-26098.

If this information is accurate, it illustrates that the numbers were not always sequentially issued and some were re-used. It is worth noting in this example that one of the sources for this information is a book written by Poliakov and Wulf - The Third Reich and the Jews. Quite what source details these authors provided for Danuta Czech to use is not stated so we do not know why she cites them as a source. It could be the case that they have provided one registration number in their book assigned on the same date that Danuta Czech's Auschwitz Museum records have provided the other number - hence the anomaly perhaps.

The previous mention of an A- series number being assigned is on page 735 of the Chronicle for October 18, 1944 stating A-25640.

So, ignoring the non-sequential apparent anomaly of A-26098, it is likely that the number you are interested in, A-27633 was assigned between October 18 ( A-25640 ) and October 23, 1944. ( A-27752 )

Thank you for posting, please clear up some confusion on my part as to why A-26098 is an issue.
Am i correct in understanding that both A-26098 and A-27752 assigned on October 23, 1944 according to Danuta Czech?
If so why is it not simply a case of 1100 or more numbers assigned on that same day?
How does the tattoo number A-26098 appear to illustrate that some numbers were potentially issued out of sequence as well as used more than once?

My apologies. It was late last night when I posted that and I did not realise the meaning of the full entry from the Auschwitz Chronicle, which is :

Auschwitz Chronicle. Page 738. October 23, 1944

SS Camp Doctor Mengele conducts a two-hour selection among the female Jews sent from the Plaszow concentration camp. He sends 1,765 women to Transit Camp B-IIc. The remaining women are killed in the gas chambers. Giza Landau, who arrives with this transport, receives A-26098, and another female Jew is given No. A-27752.

So, assuming that the 1,765 women sent to transit camp B-IIc were registered, then of course there is scope for both of these registration numbers to have been assigned to that transport. If this is so, it clearly does not illustrate what I suggested it did.

Page 25 of Central Issues in the Camp History, Volume II, The Prisoners - Their Life and Work, briefly mentions the various series of numbers and to which groups they were assigned and also states that in January 1942 a new series of numbers was introduced for re-education prisoners who, up until then, had received numbers from the general series. The new series numbers were assigned retroactively to prisoners of the same group who had either died or been released. The numbers from the general series which they replaced were re-assigned to new "general" arrivals. This was the only instance of registration numbers being "recycled". Only 9,000 prisoners were registered in the re-education series. Female re-education prisoners were given numbers from their own new series starting in 1943 and approximately 2,000 were issued.

So, according to this text, the recycling of some registration numbers at Auschwitz was done, but was minimal since it only applied to those who died or were released from the re-education group which only ever reached a total of 9,000 prisoners in it's entirety.

Also what is the nature of this author's work, is it a collection of various individual accounts or is it an attempt to compile a chronology of events (camp arrivals, departures etc)?

Polish resistance member, daughter of an Auschwitz inmate and Holocaust trials expert witness, Danuta Czech, is credited as the author of the Auschwitz Chronicle which is a publication of the Auschwitz State Museum of which she was deputy director.

It sounds like you know exactly what the Chronicle is cold beer : It is as you suggest, an attempt to compile a chronology of events (camp arrivals, departures etc)?

Danuta Czech also describes it as a framework for research into the camp's history and prisoners and an aid for criminal investigations. She expresses hope that will be recognized "as an epitaph, a memorial book for those who suffered at Auschwitz-Birkenau and it's auxiliary camps, for those who did not survive Auschwitz, who died nameless - especially those who were killed in the gas chambers immediately after arrival without even being registered."

Since, by definition, no formal record ever existed for this "straight to the gas" phantom demographic, Czech relies mostly on alleged, extrapolated or imaginary incoming transport numbers and the alleged record keeping of the Auschwitz underground resistance, some of which was, appropriately enough, dug up, years later, just in time for various post-war trials, allegedly from being buried in Auschwitz ground around the crematoria and latrines ...


See also :

How Danuta Czech Invented 100,000 Gassing Victims
An Analysis of the Auschwitz Chronicle – Part 1: 1942
by Germar Rudolf
https://codoh.com/library/document/how- ... ictims/en/

also posted here : viewtopic.php?t=12317

.

[cold beer]

SS Camp Doctor Mengele conducts a two-hour selection among the female Jews sent from the Plaszow concentration camp. He sends 1,765 women to Transit Camp B-IIc. The remaining women are killed in the gas chambers. Giza Landau, who arrives with this transport, receives A-26098, and another female Jew is given No. A-27752.

Interesting. I've heard other claims of him showing up at different camps for selections. A collection of those stories would certainty add to the Mengele legend.

Page 25 of Central Issues in the Camp History, Volume II, The Prisoners - Their Life and Work, briefly mentions the various series of numbers and to which groups they were assigned and also states that in January 1942 a new series of numbers was introduced for re-education prisoners who, up until then, had received numbers from the general series. The new series numbers were assigned retroactively to prisoners of the same group who had either died or been released. The numbers from the general series which they replaced were re-assigned to new "general" arrivals. This was the only instance of registration numbers being "recycled". Only 9,000 prisoners were registered in the re-education series. Female re-education prisoners were given numbers from their own new series starting in 1943 and approximately 2,000 were issued.

So, according to this text, the recycling of some registration numbers at Auschwitz was done, but was minimal since it only applied to those who died or were released from the re-education group which only ever reached a total of 9,000 prisoners in it's entirety.

Good information.
In fact I intended to ask what the extent of that claim about numbers having been reused was/is.

It sounds like you know exactly what the Chronicle is cold beer : It is as you suggest, an attempt to compile a chronology of events (camp arrivals, departures etc)?

No not at all, I only know her name from seeing it mentioned on the forum.
My question was based only what you had told me.
I was leading up to asking if there is anything in her book about a camp called Starachowice
The survivor I'm fact checking (Tova Friedman) says it was the last camp she was in prior to being taken to Auschwitz.
She says the Germans murdered all the children at Starachowice before the camp was liquidated.
She survived the massacre at Starachowice because she was hidden by her parents.

Is there anything in Danuta Czech's book about Starachowice, such as the massacre and/or the date of the transport to Auschwitz?

See also :

How Danuta Czech Invented 100,000 Gassing Victims
An Analysis of the Auschwitz Chronicle – Part 1: 1942
by Germar Rudolf
https://codoh.com/library/document/how- ... ictims/en/

also posted here : viewtopic.php?t=12317

Thank you, I will.