Response to HC on British Decodes

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fireofice
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Response to HC on British Decodes

Postby fireofice » 4 months 3 weeks ago (Fri Jan 13, 2023 1:36 pm)

From this:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... itzdecodes

The British cracked the German code and were listening in on what they were doing, yet there was no mention of gas chambers. The bloggers respond to this by saying that the Germans suspected they might eventually crack the code, so any references to extermination would not be mentioned in the decodes. Instead, they would use documents outside the decodes, which were presumably destroyed. Putting aside the problem of lack of documentation for gas chambers, this response doesn't work. Even if I conceded that they wouldn't be talking about mass exterminations in these decodes, there's no reason that they wouldn't bring up gas chambers.

The messages from Auschwitz, the largest camp, with 20,000 inmates, mention disease as the chief cause of death, but also include references to executions by hanging and shooting. The decoded messages contain no references to gassings.

https://www.inconvenienthistory.com/8/1/4028

If they mention other forms of execution, why would they not mention gassings, even if they don't connect it with larger scale exterminations? Wouldn't they at least mention this murder weapon that was used on a mass scale, even if only in reference to smaller scale killings? That they don't mention gas chambers at all is very strange if they existed.

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Re: Response to HC on British Decodes

Postby Archie » 4 months 3 weeks ago (Fri Jan 13, 2023 10:11 pm)

That Hinsley quote is from the official multi-volume history of British intelligence during WWII. Additionally, I would point out that it is common in survivor accounts to say that "selections" for gassing were regularly performed on registered prisoners. So then the registered/unregistered distinction which they cling to with utter desperation doesn't even work. The registered deaths in the decrypts also confirm the 1942 typhus epidemic along with the very high rate of registered deaths during that time (which dovetails with revisionist interpretations of Auschwitz). Mattogno's recent book The Making of the Auschwitz Myth goes into this topic.

There really isn't much to respond to here since (for the most part) they aren't truly disputing the revisionist position. Revisionists say there is no evidence in the decrypts for Auschwitz being a mass murder factory, nor for the "final solution." HC is implicitly conceding that this is correct. Notice HC doesn't say the decrypts prove the holocaust. Rather, they are reduced to arguing that the lack of evidence is "expected"! If the holocaust were true, we should see its reverberations all over the place. They are only saying otherwise because they came up empty on this so have to contrive excuses.

The implication of their argument is that the Jewish extermination was a very closely guarded secret, so secret it could not be mentioned even in encrypted communications where matters of vital military importance were discussed. The ONLY evidence provided for this is a document where it says not to send messages of the highest security classification. Even if that's true, it assumes 1) that everything holocaust related would have been classified that way, and 2) that they respected the classification very strictly and never slipped up. Except sometimes in public speeches.

The Wikipedia page on ULTRA quotes historian Andrew Roberts as follows:
Because he had the invaluable advantage of being able to read Field Marshal Erwin Rommel's Enigma communications, General Bernard Montgomery knew how short the Germans were of men, ammunition, food and above all fuel. When he put Rommel's picture up in his caravan he wanted to be seen to be almost reading his opponent's mind. In fact he was reading his mail.


Clearly, the Germans did not know or believe that the British were reading their communications. David Irving in his Churchill research found that Churchill in some cases was aware of when and where the bombing raids were set to occur because of decrypted messages (he mentions Coventry specifically). We are to believe then that the Germans revealed important military secrets over radio but they were so committed to secrecy on the Jewish extermination that they kept that even more secret. Rubbish. This hyper-secret holocaust theory is also inconsistent with the fact that already in 1942 there were claims of Jewish extermination appearing in the newspapers.

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Re: Response to HC on British Decodes

Postby Horhug » 4 months 3 weeks ago (Sat Jan 14, 2023 10:33 am)

This is how the holocau$t industry reacted to the declassification of :

"the messages deciphered at Bletchley Park, [which] undoubtedly constitute one of the most reliable sources on the course of events during the Second World War. " *

* https://www.inconvenienthistory.com/8/1/4028

Bletchley Park Concentration Camp Decodes.

http://whatreallyhappened.info/decrypts ... rypts.html

Dr. Breitman became involved in the initiative to declassify the Bletchley Park, German Police signals intelligence held by the NSA in January 1994, leading the successful campaign to the highest levels of the UK and US governments with questions asked in the House of Lords.

The culmination of this co-ordinated, international effort was the book, Official Secrets, which contains just a single chapter on the HORHUG type GP decodes, relating to only one of the concentration camps, Auschwitz.

In the twelve pages of Chapter 7, Auschwitz Partially Decoded, there are sixty-one end notes. Only two of these endnotes refer to the declassified archival sources for the GPCC HORHUG concentration camp inmate figures. Both occur in a solitary paragraph: [13]

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Re: Response to HC on British Decodes

Postby Hektor » 4 months 3 weeks ago (Sat Jan 14, 2023 8:00 pm)

Archie wrote:....

The Wikipedia page on ULTRA quotes historian Andrew Roberts as follows:
Because he had the invaluable advantage of being able to read Field Marshal Erwin Rommel's Enigma communications, General Bernard Montgomery knew how short the Germans were of men, ammunition, food and above all fuel. When he put Rommel's picture up in his caravan he wanted to be seen to be almost reading his opponent's mind. In fact he was reading his mail.


Clearly, the Germans did not know or believe that the British were reading their communications. David Irving in his Churchill research found that Churchill in some cases was aware of when and where the bombing raids were set to occur because of decrypted messages (he mentions Coventry specifically). We are to believe then that the Germans revealed important military secrets over radio but they were so committed to secrecy on the Jewish extermination that they kept that even more secret. Rubbish. This hyper-secret holocaust theory is also inconsistent with the fact that already in 1942 there were claims of Jewish extermination appearing in the newspapers.


If you presuppose the thesis of an extermination program to be true, you have to interpret it that way.
"Why don't I find evidence for my extermination thesis" ANSWER: "Because they kept it so secret!"...
That secrecy becomes not only a rescue device, the absence of evidence becomes evidence of imposed secrecy, which becomes evidence for something really bad having happened there.

Naturally a power engaging in war (like NS-Germany) has an interest to prevent information that is embarrassing and/or controversial from spreading within its own population or elsewhere. The deportations and internment of Jews wasn't exactly uncontroversial, it was embarrassing as well, when people protested against it (there is examples of it). Same applies to typhus epidemics. Also something you don't want rumors to spread about to avoid panic.

So the "They didn't communicate that they were extermination the Jews" sort of argument isn't believable, not at all.


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