Does the 6,000,000 number come from Judaism?

[Barncat]

This is my first post here and I find this forum to be fascinating and to feature real courage.
I have read many opinions on the meaning of the number 6,000,000 in Judaism. Perhaps, you
can ask yourselves: How many victims died in the Armenian Genocide? How many died in Cambodia?
How many in Darfur? How many victims of Serbian ethnic cleansing?

Only the so-called Holocaust, of all the alleged mass murders, is associated with a popularly promoted
numerical figure. Why is that?

It is interesting that some exterminationist propagandists have attempted to downplay the 6 million
figure. For example, Hilberg concludes that 5.1 million Jews were killed by the Nazis. Is it possible that
Hilberg realised that the number 6,000,000 would eventually arouse suspicion and, thus, he knew
that a belated revision was important to preserve credibility?

[Hektor]

Depends on how one defines Judaism.
I don't find the figure in the old testament. Not sure whether it is in the Talmud or not. But there is also Numerology.
Given the frequent usage of the number the idea that it got some mystical meaning isn't really that odd.
A hexagram ("star of David") also represents the number six. Six is associated with the creation of man on the sixth day. There is also the number 666 in the book of revelation as "Number of the beast". Mystical manipulation, possible, but how would one know for certain.

Baking smaller cakes and not hammering on the exact number all the time can indeed serve to lower the defences of those being fed that number.

[Lamprecht]

There is also the number 666 in the book of revelation as "Number of the beast".

The oldest version found to date, from Papyrus 115, gives the number as 616.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_115

Possibly it was changed in later translations. According to:
http://archive.fo/ejCV

Saint Irenaeus cited and refuted the 616 number, saying it was probably a copyist's error.
616 vs 666 is also discussed here:
http://archive.fo/1VSD7

To me, the numbers don't seem all that meaningful

[Hannover]

It's now known that Jews have been promoting their '6,000,000 dead Jews' lie since at least 1823.

That's correct, 1823 !!

To see newspaper records click on this & scroll down
https://imgur.com/a/0LFFF

Also, see the free pdf, accompanying video, and ordering information here:
The First Holocaust—The Surprising Origin of the Six-Million Figure
by Don Heddesheimer
http://holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?page_id=6

Introduction by Germar Rudolf:

Most people believe that roughly six million Jews were killed by National Socialist Germany during World War II in an event generally referred to as the Holocaust or the Shoah. But how long have we been hearing about this six-million figure? The most widely understood answer is that the six-million figure was established after the Second World War during the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg.

Although it is true that the six-million figure was declared to be the indubitable truth at this tribunal, it is actually remarkably older. This book shows that the six-million figure dates back to the late 1800s, when Jewish pressure groups were targeting czarist Russia for its anti-Jewish stance, accusing Russia of oppressing and persecuting the six million Jews in Russia, and adopting a “solution” to its “Jewish question” which allegedly consisted of outright extermination. Claims that six million Jews in Europe were suffering to such a degree that millions had died already, while many more millions would face a lingering death, climaxed for the first time during fundraising campaign that started during the FIRST World War and reached its peak in the early and mid-1920s. The New York Times was the main vehicle for such propaganda, which also included well-known buzzwords such as “annihilation,” “extermination” and even the term “holocaust.”

Although this sensational propaganda of Jewish suffering slowed down during the 1930s, it never completely ceased and received new momentum in the 1940s during the Second World War. As we all know today, this propaganda skyrocketed after Germany’s total defeat, as the victorious powers of the Second World War seized upon the opportunity to take advantage of such propaganda and to increase its scope and impact.

Don Heddesheimer’s book reveals a Jewish-Zionist propaganda pattern that has been used since the late 1800s, first against czarist Russia, then in favor of the Soviet Revolution, next against Nazi Germany, and finally and ever since in favor of Israel.

Fifth edition with an extended introduction featuring most of the information also contained in our video, plus a list of including a list of 288 sources referring to 6 million suffering, dying or dead Jews published between 1900 and the opening of the Nuremberg Trials in late 1945.

- Hannover

Only lies require censorship.

[Hektor]

There is also the number 666 in the book of revelation as "Number of the beast".

The oldest version found to date, from Papyrus 115, gives the number as 616.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_115

Possibly it was changed in later translations. According to:
http://archive.fo/ejCV

Saint Irenaeus cited and refuted the 616 number, saying it was probably a copyist's error.
616 vs 666 is also discussed here:
http://archive.fo/1VSD7

To me, the numbers don't seem all that meaningful

The error may explain that it's shred in pieces. How'd they know, if it's the oldest anyway?
On the other hand the association with 666 may just be circumstantial anyway. But a Hexagram got 6 stripes, 6 lines, 6 outside points.
It itself got nothing to do with David anyway, that seems to be a fairly recent legend.

[Lamprecht]

There is also the number 666 in the book of revelation as "Number of the beast".

The oldest version found to date, from Papyrus 115, gives the number as 616.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_115

Possibly it was changed in later translations. According to:
http://archive.fo/ejCV

Saint Irenaeus cited and refuted the 616 number, saying it was probably a copyist's error.
616 vs 666 is also discussed here:
http://archive.fo/1VSD7

To me, the numbers don't seem all that meaningful

The error may explain that it's shred in pieces. How'd they know, if it's the oldest anyway?
On the other hand the association with 666 may just be circumstantial anyway. But a Hexagram got 6 stripes, 6 lines, 6 outside points.
It itself got nothing to do with David anyway, that seems to be a fairly recent legend.

I am sure it's not the oldest that ever existed. The Wikipedia page cites the date, either the document was dated or they used some method for dating it.

The Book of Revelations is not part of the Torah or "Old Testament" it is part of the "New Testament" so it is not a Holy Text in Judaism

[Hektor]

....
I am sure it's not the oldest that ever existed. The Wikipedia page cites the date, either the document was dated or they used some method for dating it.

The Book of Revelations is not part of the Torah or "Old Testament" it is part of the "New Testament" so it is not a Holy Text in Judaism

Yes there are several methods for "dating" documents or artefacts, however they got some problems of their own. (We may want a section on Ancient History / Archaeology Revisionism ).
There is some, not completely wrong, bias to assume that, if a document is older, it must be the original or at least closer to the original. It's almost certain, when one considers a document that is copied once in a while as a refreshment.
It's a bit different with documents that are copied for a higher circulation. That's now if 100s or 1000s of copies are made of certain originals.
After they are copied scribes will do some quality control. The perfect copies will be distributed and the faulty ones will be kept in store (perhaps to sell them later to a less critical client?). Remember copying documents was hard work in those times using some rather expensive resources. So the authorising customer has a strong motivation to insist on perfection, while the service provider has a strong motivation to deliver perfect product since he knows about the demanding attitude of his clients. As there were no copyright or feasible enforcement of it, substandard product could still be sold at a decent price, even it was much cheaper. A priced item would also be used more intensively, while a the cheaper items may just have served as a nice to have. In the end the expensive items were less preserved than the nice to have items. It's like with distributing booklets. The cheap one's lend in a box, since people with less interest in it get them. The expensive one will for sure be read more often. Imagine this being done by dedicated group buyers.

But that only to show that there is a plausible explanation exists for later copies of copies to be more reliable copies of the original than older copies. Could it also be the other way round? Yes.

Yes, Revelation is New Testament - a part that seems to have been more controversial than the other books/letters. The Jews of course even hate it, given that it says:

Rev 3:9 Look at those who belong to the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews but are liars instead. I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and they will know that I love you.

Make no mistake about it. There are Jews that study the New Testament pretty thoroughly. They'll know about this. Also about the 666 thing of course and also what it is linked to.

Rev13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to [u]receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads[/u]: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Control of virtually every transaction on the planet, at least in the formal sector and in areas of control of course. But that's where people will cuddle together when times get tough. This will be the ultimate coup in usury (which isn't that much about interest, but having a bite in productive people, meaning forced extraction of wealth based on an arrangement).

[Hektor]

This is difficult to assert. I know quite a lot about Judaism as a result of my interest in jewish history (particularly the theories about anti-Semitism), but the '6,000,000' does not come directly from the Talmud (which one? Babylonian: I presume?). You see the '6,000,000' number has two potentially sources as I understand it: population statistics or the rabbinical concept of the Guzma ('exaggeration'). Both arguments are largely conjectural unfortunately since as far as I know there has been no clear evidence as from whence the early '6,000,000' claims (they date as early as 1881/1882, possibly earlier, if memory serves) took their number. It is one of those underresearched, but vital, areas that one occasionally finds in any branch of scholarly inquiry......
Both arguments certainly have some truth to them and it is, in my opinion, probable that both had a hand in creating the '6,000,000' as a means of explaining the scale of the 'pogroms' (localised anti-Semitic riots would be far more accurate as they weren't government sponsored despite the still common assertion made on the basis of Simon Dubnow's work in the 1930s). However in the context of the 'caust: I think we have to suggest that the latter is of far more importance than the former in terms of influence as the former would have changed considerably by 1941-1945, while the latter was maintained in Judaism.
....

A good example for hyperbole was the description of the killing of Simon Dubnow in the "Aufbau" on January 5th 1945 itself.
https://archive.org/details/aufbau11194 ... ew=theater
They allege that he was 'murdered by his former student Johann Siebert in the Ghetto of Riga.
The article is riddled with dramatization of what supposedly happened in a way that is actually over the top and worthy of a novel.
Given the date how would a American newspaper know about this anyway. How could they possibly have verified the news.
The style of the story sounds a bit like Russian agitprop of the more brute kind would sound.

And well, a mentioned there is always the cultural background were dramatization, exaggeration and appeal to emotion aren't seen as manipulative, but part of that what is acceptable to further ones own goals. There is of course the pesky aspect that lying to others is considered a virtue, when it furthers a 'noble goal' like in this case the 'Jewish victimhood' narrative.

[hermod]

Does the 6,000,000 number come from Judaism?

Yes, it does. It comes from a misspelling in a Jewish prophecy of return. In Leviticus 25:10, the Hebrew word for "return" is written with a missing vav (i.e. the Hebrew letter which stands for the number six in Gematria). When the Zionist movement was founded, the first Zionists quickly interpreted that misspelling as a divine secret code for "You [Jews] shall return [to the Holy Land] minus six million [of your brothers and sisters]" and they began to insert the six-million figure everywhere in their martyrdom-based propaganda stuff.

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THE FIRST HOLOCAUST - THE SURPRISING ORIGIN OF THE SIX MILLION FIGURE

https://tv.gab.com/watch?v=635cb7783e528ba3e1cd8286

SIX MILLION OPEN GATES
By S.A.R. Lynch

https://archive.org/details/six-million ... .-r.-lynch

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[Hektor]

Does the 6,000,000 number come from Judaism?

Yes, it does. It comes from a misspelling in a Jewish prophecy of return. In Leviticus 25:10, the Hebrew word for "return" is written with a missing vav (i.e. the Hebrew letter which stands for the number six in Gematria). When the Zionist movement was founded, the first Zionists quickly interpreted that misspelling as a divine secret code for "You [Jews] shall return [to the Holy Land] minus six million [of your brothers and sisters]" and they began to insert the six-million figure everywhere in their martyrdom-based propaganda stuff.
...

It's Jewish mysticism to be concise there. So it flies with broader Judaism, but also with Jews in generally, including many who are atheists/agnostics or some sort of spiritualist. The Holocaust is a new religion, which can include people with varying world views, which can be theistic, but also atheistic. The 'secret code' appeals more to the proclaimed religious. The unique suffering does appeal to those proclaimed non-religious as well.

[hermod]

It's Jewish mysticism to be concise there.

https://postimg.cc/mc6ryzBV

So it flies with broader Judaism, but also with Jews in generally, including many who are atheists/agnostics or some sort of spiritualist. The Holocaust is a new religion, which can include people with varying world views, which can be theistic, but also atheistic. The 'secret code' appeals more to the proclaimed religious. The unique suffering does appeal to those proclaimed non-religious as well.

Yes, it does. And it was also a good way to sell a unique colonial enterprise in the 20th century.

Nothing less than the Holohoax could have successfully bought carte blanche for the continuous ethnic cleansing of Palestine in the postcolonial era if I'm asked.

[Hektor]

It's Jewish mysticism to be concise there.

...

So it flies with broader Judaism, but also with Jews in generally, including many who are atheists/agnostics or some sort of spiritualist. The Holocaust is a new religion, which can include people with varying world views, which can be theistic, but also atheistic. The 'secret code' appeals more to the proclaimed religious. The unique suffering does appeal to those proclaimed non-religious as well.

Yes, it does. And it was also a good way to sell a unique colonial enterprise in the 20th century.

Nothing less than the Holohoax could have successfully bought carte blanche for the continuous ethnic cleansing of Palestine in the postcolonial era if I'm asked.
...

Most Christians/non Jews have no idea that Judaism got its actual roots in Mysticism and occult practices. They think it's the 'religion of the old testament'. It is most definitely not. Now they use the old testament texts, no doubt about that. But they got a rather twisted way to interpret it. And they added a Talmud that is 40 to 50 times as large. The 'authoritative' element therein are the sayings of the Rabbis. What the Rabbis agree on is the authoritative teaching there. They disagree among each other, for sure, but they debate it out until they find some consensus. Because that's never really fully the case, there are various sects and factions. They all agree on 'the Jews are special', but they will differ on what constitutes a Jew and what not. One source for mysticism are occult practices of the Kabbalah. Numerology is also a subset of this. Meanwhile many of them come over more modern and educated of course. But the mysticism still stands. And well, so does the sense of entitlement. The lower ranking Jews often don't have an idea what the top level teaches neither. For them it's more following rules and principles. The orthodox are more legalist and 'about following rules to the letter', while the Reform Jews are more relaxed about this. It's more about 'being kind people' and 'do-gooding'. This is similar with many Protestant sects, were some are more legalist, while others are 'liberal' in their approach, favoring 'social work' and 'making a difference' in the society. With the Catholics it's a bit different... Although one also gets those polar faction there. Other religions are partially similar. Most Christians don't realize that the core of Judaism is about hating Christ and Christians (as well as deception). The worst thing a Jew can do is converting to Christianity (and meaning it)... If they'd become Muslims this won't be liked but rather tolerated... If they become Buddhists, I'd guess that would be tolerated completely, even more with Atheism/Agnosticism. They also swim with modern trends or trends within society... But it is always a lot about their own community, regardless of the rank they have.