My Auschwitz Presentation
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- HeiligeSturm
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Re: My Auschwitz Presentation
The Hidden Europe page 125 tells this claim about the big elevator:
"an electric lift would raise the entire chamber to a vast crematorium"
This kind of elevator couldn't fit in the space where the elevator is in blueprints etc.
Even all-knowing "sonderkommando" David Olere contradicted his "knowledge" of the crematorium
in his drawing The Oven Room (where corpses are drawn in the space which could be the so called SS-room) and his cross-section of the crematorium.
"The SS access" and the way to "the experimentation room" would have been blocked occasionally if we should believe in these officially (Auschwitz museum, Van Pelt etc.) approved cross-section models and drawings, especially with piles of corpses.
"an electric lift would raise the entire chamber to a vast crematorium"
This kind of elevator couldn't fit in the space where the elevator is in blueprints etc.
Even all-knowing "sonderkommando" David Olere contradicted his "knowledge" of the crematorium
in his drawing The Oven Room (where corpses are drawn in the space which could be the so called SS-room) and his cross-section of the crematorium.
"The SS access" and the way to "the experimentation room" would have been blocked occasionally if we should believe in these officially (Auschwitz museum, Van Pelt etc.) approved cross-section models and drawings, especially with piles of corpses.
"Surprisingly, however, in the book [Schlomo] Venezia does not describe it at all: he
does not indicate its size, its location in the building..." - C. Mattogno: Sonderkommando III
does not indicate its size, its location in the building..." - C. Mattogno: Sonderkommando III
Re: My Auschwitz Presentation
Prussian blue wrote:Lamprecht's statement, that the elevator wouldn't have been a bottleneck, referred to the ordinary use as a morgue, not to the official narrative.
Correct
However, also in the case of the designated use as a morgue, a breakdown of the elevator would have been a huge problem, so the design seems flawed to me. And if I remember correctly, a larger elevator was ordered later for Krema II or III, so although never installed, this indicates that the small one was indeed some kind of bottleneck.
I made a thread about this with relevant information, see below:
Auschwitz Krema II: The elevator / chute / lift - was it ever replaced/improved?
viewtopic.php?t=12891
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
NOTE: I am taking a leave of absence from revisionism to focus on other things. At this point, the ball is in their court to show the alleged massive pits full of human remains at the so-called "extermination camps." After 8 decades they still refuse to do this. I wonder why...
— Herbert Spencer
NOTE: I am taking a leave of absence from revisionism to focus on other things. At this point, the ball is in their court to show the alleged massive pits full of human remains at the so-called "extermination camps." After 8 decades they still refuse to do this. I wonder why...
Re: My Auschwitz Presentation
I too agree that being a morgue, it would not be a bottleneck
I was placing my arguments on being a gas chamber with a big room full of dead. then it becomes a bottleneck
I was placing my arguments on being a gas chamber with a big room full of dead. then it becomes a bottleneck
History is never a one-sided story.
Re: My Auschwitz Presentation
Fred zz wrote:Ordinary use as a morgue
I direct you to the layout at Auschwitz Crematory 1, 4 and 5. the morgues and cremators are on the same level. Same goes for Majdanek. When Majdanek first started out, they had just two mobile muffles. all have no basement but underground flues. Flues can be engineered out to run below or above ground, There is no requirement they must run underground. the Germans are not dumb people. The morgue was in the basement to take advantage of a cooler atmosphere indoors
But yes water would be more of an issue if they dug further down to accommodate what they had there in the 1940s. They have slave labor if they did decide to dig deeper. Plenty of diggers with all those trenches they built outside
The money they save on no elevator and no more bottleneck headaches like breakdowns and fewer body handler, fewer mouths to feed would be the payoff.
Also note, I recommended if two level is required, I since rewrote Recommended "Only" if two levels are required. For Birkenau, Ground level only is my recommendation
Thanks for input
This looks like a great project unfolding! Keep up the good work. I hope to contribute soon.
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Re: My Auschwitz Presentation
@ Lamprecht and Fred zz
You're right, the elevator wouldn't have been a bottleneck in the case of the designated use as a morgue (if we ignore the problem of a possible failure of the elevator). A realistic estimate for the maximum cremation rate would be one corpse per hour and per muffle. That would be 15 corpses per hour for Crematorium II. Loading the elevator with three corpses at a time, this would yield 5 turns per hour, i.e. 12 minutes for loading, going up, unloading and going down again. That seems reasonable.
But now it seems to me that the actual bottleneck for the Kill Center scenario would be the cremation rate, too, because realistically, the numbers would be the same. The elevator only becomes a bottleneck, if we accept unrealistically short incineration times. Correct?
You're right, the elevator wouldn't have been a bottleneck in the case of the designated use as a morgue (if we ignore the problem of a possible failure of the elevator). A realistic estimate for the maximum cremation rate would be one corpse per hour and per muffle. That would be 15 corpses per hour for Crematorium II. Loading the elevator with three corpses at a time, this would yield 5 turns per hour, i.e. 12 minutes for loading, going up, unloading and going down again. That seems reasonable.
But now it seems to me that the actual bottleneck for the Kill Center scenario would be the cremation rate, too, because realistically, the numbers would be the same. The elevator only becomes a bottleneck, if we accept unrealistically short incineration times. Correct?
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Re: My Auschwitz Presentation
To avoid further confusion, I'd like to get something clear:
We have serial process, where the system throughput rate is determined by the smallest of the involved subprocesses, constituting the bottleneck of the whole system. Thus, R_sys = min[R_crema,R_elev], where R_sys denotes the highest possible total system throughput rate (number of corpses per time unit), R_crema is the maximum throughput rate of the cremators, and R_elev is the maximum throughput rate of the elevator. If R_crema < R_elev, the cremation is the bottleneck, if R_crema > R_elev, the elevator is the bottleneck.
We have R_crema = n_muffl / t_sbi. With n_muffl = 15 being the number of muffles for Krema II and the single body incineration time, t_sbi = 1 hour / corpse, an empirical value (Mattogno, Rudolf), we thus have R_crema = 15 corpses / hour. For R_elev = n_c / t_ert, we can only make some assumptions regarding the number of corpses, n_c, and the time, per elevator round-trip, t_ert. If we set n_c = 3 and t_ert = 10 min = 1/6 hour, we have R_elev = 18 corpses / hour, so the cremator would be the bottleneck.
Anyway, both R_crema and R_elev are technically limited and are thus the same for the morgue/crematory scenario and for the Kill Center scenario. The laws of physics don't care whether the operators are performing sanitary measures or some wicked extermination plan.
You are obviously calling each subprocess with a throughput rate smaller than the alleged thougput rate, R_allgd, a bottleneck. For the Kill Center scenario, this condition is indeed fulfilled for the crematoria as well as for the elevator. But unless some magic is used, the total system throughput rate is limited to the smaller of the two values. In this case, this would be the cremation rate, which could be handeled by the elevator, so the elevator per definition isn't a bottleneck. By saying that the elevator is the bottleneck, because its couldn't handle the alleged total numbers, you have already tacitly removed the actual bottleneck (the cremators) and are thus undermining the prevailing definition of the term "bottleneck". However, if the true bottleneck were somehow eliminated, the other component would indeed become a bottleneck, too.
Sorry for digressing.
We have serial process, where the system throughput rate is determined by the smallest of the involved subprocesses, constituting the bottleneck of the whole system. Thus, R_sys = min[R_crema,R_elev], where R_sys denotes the highest possible total system throughput rate (number of corpses per time unit), R_crema is the maximum throughput rate of the cremators, and R_elev is the maximum throughput rate of the elevator. If R_crema < R_elev, the cremation is the bottleneck, if R_crema > R_elev, the elevator is the bottleneck.
We have R_crema = n_muffl / t_sbi. With n_muffl = 15 being the number of muffles for Krema II and the single body incineration time, t_sbi = 1 hour / corpse, an empirical value (Mattogno, Rudolf), we thus have R_crema = 15 corpses / hour. For R_elev = n_c / t_ert, we can only make some assumptions regarding the number of corpses, n_c, and the time, per elevator round-trip, t_ert. If we set n_c = 3 and t_ert = 10 min = 1/6 hour, we have R_elev = 18 corpses / hour, so the cremator would be the bottleneck.
Anyway, both R_crema and R_elev are technically limited and are thus the same for the morgue/crematory scenario and for the Kill Center scenario. The laws of physics don't care whether the operators are performing sanitary measures or some wicked extermination plan.
You are obviously calling each subprocess with a throughput rate smaller than the alleged thougput rate, R_allgd, a bottleneck. For the Kill Center scenario, this condition is indeed fulfilled for the crematoria as well as for the elevator. But unless some magic is used, the total system throughput rate is limited to the smaller of the two values. In this case, this would be the cremation rate, which could be handeled by the elevator, so the elevator per definition isn't a bottleneck. By saying that the elevator is the bottleneck, because its couldn't handle the alleged total numbers, you have already tacitly removed the actual bottleneck (the cremators) and are thus undermining the prevailing definition of the term "bottleneck". However, if the true bottleneck were somehow eliminated, the other component would indeed become a bottleneck, too.
Sorry for digressing.
Re: My Auschwitz Presentation
The sign outside the Crematory 1 touristy gas chamber building has been updated. They are seemingly coming clean with the April 1942 blueprint
They now indicate the Urn room and washroom. Sorry the update sign is a bit hazy but with a little effort can be read
Luckly for the museum, the people who tour this building rarely stop to read the sign
see attachments
They now indicate the Urn room and washroom. Sorry the update sign is a bit hazy but with a little effort can be read
Luckly for the museum, the people who tour this building rarely stop to read the sign
see attachments
Last edited by Fred zz on Wed Oct 19, 2022 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
History is never a one-sided story.
Re: My Auschwitz Presentation
You wrote:
By saying that the elevator is the bottleneck, because its couldn't handle the alleged total numbers, you have already tacitly removed the actual bottleneck (the cremators) and are thus undermining the prevailing definition of the term "bottleneck".
I am speaking in terms of Sensable building design for a kill center on a massive scale. l am not speaking from a cremation standpoint. The cremation time issues are also in the presentation just not presented now. This is for building design and overall planning issues only
By saying that the elevator is the bottleneck, because its couldn't handle the alleged total numbers, you have already tacitly removed the actual bottleneck (the cremators) and are thus undermining the prevailing definition of the term "bottleneck".
I am speaking in terms of Sensable building design for a kill center on a massive scale. l am not speaking from a cremation standpoint. The cremation time issues are also in the presentation just not presented now. This is for building design and overall planning issues only
History is never a one-sided story.
Re: My Auschwitz Presentation
Here are clearer versions of the new sign outside the touristy gas chamber
see attachment
see attachment
History is never a one-sided story.
Re: My Auschwitz Presentation
Here is a drop box link to my Auschwitz presentation: https://www.dropbox.com/s/s5exxwq2um5lj ... 1.pdf?dl=0
I am at a bit of a standstill for more content and what can be done further to stregnthen the aurguments I presented
If you can look it over and let me know how you feel. All constructive critism is welcomed.
any typos or badly worded content etc? let me know
My goal is to put a a small hand book like I did for Majdanek (Majdanek was also updated)
Thanks. and look forward to any input
PS. Can one person let me know the link I provided is ok?
I am at a bit of a standstill for more content and what can be done further to stregnthen the aurguments I presented
If you can look it over and let me know how you feel. All constructive critism is welcomed.
any typos or badly worded content etc? let me know
My goal is to put a a small hand book like I did for Majdanek (Majdanek was also updated)
Thanks. and look forward to any input
PS. Can one person let me know the link I provided is ok?
History is never a one-sided story.
Re: My Auschwitz Presentation
I was watching a podcast today about Crematoria 1 at the main camp.
One of the guys asked a question that hit me like a Mike Tyson uppercut.
The question was: After the morgue was turned into a gas chamber, where was the morgue for this camp moved to?
Has anyone here heard of a response to this question from the people who believe the hoax?
Logistic
1. the Germans certainly could not use the room in question as a morgue and a gas chamber at the same time.
2. If the morgue were moved, it cannot be located in the same building
3. If true (I know it is not), the people who did not die in the said gas chamber would have to be carted to the crematoria from somewhere? Hospital near the camp Jail?
Has this topic been discussed for Creama 1?
One of the guys asked a question that hit me like a Mike Tyson uppercut.
The question was: After the morgue was turned into a gas chamber, where was the morgue for this camp moved to?
Has anyone here heard of a response to this question from the people who believe the hoax?
Logistic
1. the Germans certainly could not use the room in question as a morgue and a gas chamber at the same time.
2. If the morgue were moved, it cannot be located in the same building
3. If true (I know it is not), the people who did not die in the said gas chamber would have to be carted to the crematoria from somewhere? Hospital near the camp Jail?
Has this topic been discussed for Creama 1?
History is never a one-sided story.
Re: My Auschwitz Presentation
Fred zz wrote:I was watching a podcast today about Crematoria 1 at the main camp.
One of the guys asked a question that hit me like a Mike Tyson uppercut.
The question was: After the morgue was turned into a gas chamber, where was the morgue for this camp moved to?
Has anyone here heard of a response to this question from the people who believe the hoax?
Logistic
1. the Germans certainly could not use the room in question as a morgue and a gas chamber at the same time.
2. If the morgue were moved, it cannot be located in the same building
3. If true (I know it is not), the people who did not die in the said gas chamber would have to be carted to the crematoria from somewhere? Hospital near the camp Jail?
Has this topic been discussed for Creama 1?
I think we have discussed those logical/logistical issues in the past. But it seems that 'Holocaust Historians' couldn't bother care less about their story having logical or technical flaws. It seems they bet on that people won't notice this.
But lets assume you support the Extermination Thesis. You interpret some of the evidence to support your thesis. There still is room for doubt and there is evidence that's not supporting your thesis, even contradicting it. While one doesn't expect you to depart from your thesis (despite your side demanding this all the time from dissenters), you at least should point out that there are problems with your evidence and arguments. Yet you omit those issues altogether. What you present works like this:
1. The Nazis did gas six million Jews (OK may be not all ot them, but they did).
2. Any evidence I find, I try to harmonize it, interpret it in a way as if it supports point 1.
3. Any evidence that contradicts my thesis I ignore or make it look unimportant.
With that methodologically very sloppy approach i now take the 'moral high ground' and call everybody that questions/disputes my thesis. a "NaziThatWantsToKillSixMillionJews". OK, perhaps not that directly, since this may actually raise suspicion, but lets attack that person's reputation and belittle it in some way. That this approach is actually irrational, illogical and unempirical to follow doesn't bother you the slightest. But of course you will insist that you are an expert that followed an objective, logical approach to arrive at your conclusions (which you mostly copied from others).
If the Holocaust hadn't the Halo of Sacredness around it, it probably would have been kicked from most universities long ago. But those having a vested interest in it do have clout to push it through and that seems to be all that counts in academia nowadays.
Be advised, I'm not holding against you that you are in error on a historical question. I'm holding against you that you never seriously consider to be in error on the issue, while actually not having anything that warrants the conclusions you propose. All you have is political and social power backing your point of view and the fact that the well has been poisoned for decades already. So there is an audience that isn't likely to resist your outlandish claims, as they were essentially raised with those claims via media and the educational system.
Difficult to assess how many people have serious doubt about this of course. But my experience is that after a while, after they can see that one is serious about rational enquiry and objective proof of claims, there is a fair number intellectual minded people that is willing to concede that there should be more than reasonable doubt about the narrative. Typically those people don't have much of a communicative reach. At best they can talk about it with some people at the dinner table. But that is also were change of the public mind ultimately takes place.
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