Is there any truth to these claims of mass murder?

[Generatedusername8]

The first is juozas alyksynas. A wehrmacht riflemen (charged with desertion and arrested by german police in 1942) who claims to have taken part in a massacre of jewish women and children. He does not recall the location. Really i just want information regarding these specific scenerios in general.

The second is the authenticity regarding Aktion T4, and any sort of plans in general to kill jewish people.

The third is a blogpost basically parroting all the claims against the authenticity of the Leuchter report.
https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... s.html?m=1

This is my first post and a friend of mine is at a disagreement with me regarding this topic.

[Lamprecht]

The first is juozas alyksynas. A wehrmacht riflemen (charged with desertion and arrested by german police in 1942) who claims to have taken part in a massacre of jewish women and children. He does not recall the location. Really i just want information regarding these specific scenerios in general.

Here on CODOH we try to have 1 topic per thread, which is in the rules/guidelines. I don't know anything about this "Juozas Alyksynas" but it might be worth making a thread about this individual and posting the evidence of this claimed massacre.
It should be noted that during WWII there were many massacres of women and children, especially in the various civilian bombing campaigns.

The second is the authenticity regarding Aktion T4, and any sort of plans in general to kill jewish people.

Aktion T4 was a euthanasia program and was no secret. I suggest:

Evidence for the German Euthanasia Program Compared to the Holocaust
viewtopic.php?t=11393

From the article linked in that thread:

Conclusion

The German euthanasia program is a well-documented reality. Hitler authorized the euthanasia program in writing, the defendants at the Doctors’ Trial admitted their involvement in the program, the best method for killing victims was discussed among the participants in the program, the carbon monoxide gas used in the German euthanasia program can safely and effectively kill people, and the euthanasia program was widely known by the German public. In fact, public opposition to the program was so strong in Germany that Hitler ordered the end of the first phase of the euthanasia program in August 1941.

By contrast, the genocide of European Jewry is not well documented. No order has ever been found authorizing the mass murder of Europe’s Jews. The German defendants at the main Nuremberg trial all stated they knew nothing about the so-called Holocaust. The Holocaust story absurdly states that the first gas chambers were built at Auschwitz using Zyklon B by SS personnel with no engineering experience. None of the alleged homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz, Birkenau, and Majdanek or the claimed diesel gas chambers at the Aktion Reinhardt camps of Treblinka, Belzec, and Sobibor could possibly have been used for mass murder. The alleged genocide of Jews was also not known by the German public during the war. The eyewitness testimony to the so-called Holocaust has consistently proven to be extremely unreliable. Finally, the large number of Jewish survivors at the end of the war makes impossible a program of genocide against European Jewry.

In conclusion, while the German euthanasia program is a well-documented reality, the Holocaust story is a fraud. Dr. Arthur Robert Butz has aptly stated:[36]

The ‘Holocaust’ is such a gigantic fraud that it is a cornucopia of absurdities.”

The third is a blogpost basically parroting all the claims against the authenticity of the Leuchter report.
https://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot ... s.html?m=1

The Leuchter report was the first attempt to forensically examine the alleged homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz for cyanide traces. Since that report, chemist Germar Rudolf wrote his own report (and has since updated it multiple times). The Leuchter report is on its 4th or 5th version by now and is seen as a historical document.

I posted some links to Germar Rudolf's work in a recent post here: viewtopic.php?p=103642#p103642

As well as: viewtopic.php?p=103288#p103288

The HC Blog link discusses multiple topics so you should make a thread about each one if you would like to investigate them.

This is my first post and a friend of mine is at a disagreement with me regarding this topic.

If your friend is just going to post links to websites that compile links to articles he hasn't read and will not defend, then he is not really trying to debate honestly. You can respond by sending him books and articles and tell him to read them, and he probably will not.

Alternatively, you can ask him to join this forum and make his case for an alleged Holocaust of 5-6 million Jews, and why there is no physical evidence to support this conspiracy theory, and why the documents consistently describe the "Final Solution" as a policy of evacuation, internment, and deportation - not mass murder.

See infographs, part 1: https://pic8.co/sh/P12rIO.png
part 2: https://pic8.co/sh/HO4iLS.png

[Hektor]

The first is juozas alyksynas. A wehrmacht riflemen (charged with desertion and arrested by german police in 1942) who claims to have taken part in a massacre of jewish women and children. He does not recall the location. Really i just want information regarding these specific scenerios in general.

Seems to be this guy:
https://web.facebook.com/holocaustmuseu ... rdc=1&_rdr
Claim is that he was a auxiliary, hence not a soldier of the Wehrmacht.
Took part in massacres, but can't point to a location with verifiable mass graves. Now that's cute.

And that from an especially reliable witness:

Mr. Gecas, who denied shooting Jews, sued, seeking $1.1 million. Because the witnesses are now quite elderly, the Scottish court trying the case came to Vilnius to hear two days of testimony.

Scottish Television's defense fared poorly. Juozas Aleksynas said the KGB had forced him to give evidence against Mr. Gecas. He said his account was "exaggerated."

"There's been too much said against Gecas," he told the court.

Motiejus Migonis, a 73-year-old pig farmer, said he had been at a guard post 30 to 50 yards from the pit and hadn't actually seen any shooting, contrary to what he had told the Scottish crew.

"How could I say what was happening there?" he said.

When the Scottish lawyer persisted in asking about the incident, he replied, "I don't like questions like those. This is getting on my nerves."

Later, he said, "There might be some mistakes pertaining to the investigation by the KGB," but he would not elaborate.

The discomfort of Mr. Aleksynas and Mr. Migonis is perhaps understandable. Before the trial, they had been sent letters by Mr. Losys, pointing out that the authorities would be paying attention to their testimony.

Afterward, Mr. Losys denied that he had been trying to intimidate the witnesses. "Those letters were written in a very delicate form," he said. "The only aim was to restore the truth. We told them to remember what testimony they had given [to the KGB], and to think of what they could add."

Mr. Aleksynas has changed directions before. A Lithuanian soldier before the war, he became general secretary of the Communist trade union council after the Soviet takeover in 1940. In 1941, he joined the German army. In 1987, he gave testimony against Mr. Gecas, but now he says he did that only to placate the KGB.

Mr. Gecas himself, after winning a medal from the Germans, left Lithuania to fight in Italy. There he deserted and joined the British, who also gave him a medal. In 1947, he settled in Scotland.

An old acquaintance of Mr. Gecas', Juozas Sarka, 79, who spent six years in Soviet camps, went to the hearing. He said he is sure the KGB fabricated its case. Mr. Gecas was a good Christian, he said. "A man with such morals could not shoot innocent women and children."
https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xp ... story.html

Intimidation, change of stories witness that "recall" decades old stories, which never can be substantiated. You should ask yourself.... If they had water-tight evidence, would they push this kind of "testimony" to the front?

No, they would present findings of forensic investigations... But those could be challenged more easily than testimony, which has low probative value, but high propaganda use, as people tend to be impressed more by this.


The Wiesenthal crew also peddled this.
https://www.wiesenthal.com/assets/a-naz ... in-our.pdf
Of course forgets to mention that evidence is flimsy at best and testimony dubious. Nothing about the KGB there, but that would also draw attention to the origin of documents they did present to support their narrative.

[Generatedusername8]

The first is juozas alyksynas. A wehrmacht riflemen (charged with desertion and arrested by german police in 1942) who claims to have taken part in a massacre of jewish women and children. He does not recall the location. Really i just want information regarding these specific scenerios in general.

Seems to be this guy:
https://web.facebook.com/holocaustmuseu ... rdc=1&_rdr
Claim is that he was a auxiliary, hence not a soldier of the Wehrmacht.
Took part in massacres, but can't point to a location with verifiable mass graves. Now that's cute.

And that from an especially reliable witness:

Mr. Gecas, who denied shooting Jews, sued, seeking $1.1 million. Because the witnesses are now quite elderly, the Scottish court trying the case came to Vilnius to hear two days of testimony.

Scottish Television's defense fared poorly. Juozas Aleksynas said the KGB had forced him to give evidence against Mr. Gecas. He said his account was "exaggerated."

"There's been too much said against Gecas," he told the court.

Motiejus Migonis, a 73-year-old pig farmer, said he had been at a guard post 30 to 50 yards from the pit and hadn't actually seen any shooting, contrary to what he had told the Scottish crew.

"How could I say what was happening there?" he said.

When the Scottish lawyer persisted in asking about the incident, he replied, "I don't like questions like those. This is getting on my nerves."

Later, he said, "There might be some mistakes pertaining to the investigation by the KGB," but he would not elaborate.

The discomfort of Mr. Aleksynas and Mr. Migonis is perhaps understandable. Before the trial, they had been sent letters by Mr. Losys, pointing out that the authorities would be paying attention to their testimony.

Afterward, Mr. Losys denied that he had been trying to intimidate the witnesses. "Those letters were written in a very delicate form," he said. "The only aim was to restore the truth. We told them to remember what testimony they had given [to the KGB], and to think of what they could add."

Mr. Aleksynas has changed directions before. A Lithuanian soldier before the war, he became general secretary of the Communist trade union council after the Soviet takeover in 1940. In 1941, he joined the German army. In 1987, he gave testimony against Mr. Gecas, but now he says he did that only to placate the KGB.

Mr. Gecas himself, after winning a medal from the Germans, left Lithuania to fight in Italy. There he deserted and joined the British, who also gave him a medal. In 1947, he settled in Scotland.

An old acquaintance of Mr. Gecas', Juozas Sarka, 79, who spent six years in Soviet camps, went to the hearing. He said he is sure the KGB fabricated its case. Mr. Gecas was a good Christian, he said. "A man with such morals could not shoot innocent women and children."
https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xp ... story.html

Intimidation, change of stories witness that "recall" decades old stories, which never can be substantiated. You should ask yourself.... If they had water-tight evidence, would they push this kind of "testimony" to the front?

No, they would present findings of forensic investigations... But those could be challenged more easily than testimony, which has low probative value, but high propaganda use, as people tend to be impressed more by this.


The Wiesenthal crew also peddled this.
https://www.wiesenthal.com/assets/a-naz ... in-our.pdf
Of course forgets to mention that evidence is flimsy at best and testimony dubious. Nothing about the KGB there, but that would also draw attention to the origin of documents they did present to support their narrative.

Still getting used to how this website works, i appreciate this response. It's very interesting

[DissentingOpinions]

There's no evidence that definitively proves murders took place in the alleged extermination camps, however there's a pretty open-and-shut case for the 5-6 million Jews being killed in the Ostland - Himmler ordered the Ostland ghettos closed in the summer of 1943, and that the Jews unfit for work were to be sent further east. Let's put that in perspective: South of the Ostland was the Ukraine, so the Jews obviously weren't sent there. The only place east of the Ostland was therefore the military occupation of the Eastern Front, where the surrounding area was in the middle of a battleground of guns and tanks. Clearly these Jews didn't walk through the chaos into Soviet Russia, so where did they go? Nobody has an answer on this forum - just the notion of a tiny nonexistent village that held 5-6 million Jews in total secrecy & was removed from the maps after the war. It's clear as day to me - all Jews unfit for work were shot in the Ostland ghettos when they were ordered closed, there bodies are still being searched for.

[Hannover]

DissentingOpinions says:

There's no evidence that definitively proves murders took place in the alleged extermination camps, however there's a pretty open-and-shut case for the 5-6 million Jews being killed in the Ostland ... so where did they go? Nobody has an answer on this forum - just the notion of a tiny nonexistent village that held 5-6 million Jews in total secrecy & was removed from the maps after the war. It's clear as day to me - all Jews unfit for work were shot in the Ostland ghettos when they were ordered closed, there bodies are still being searched for.

That is completely baseless, embarrassing even.

BTW, you've forgotten the alleged '5m others'.

The 'where did they go canard' has been demolished repeatedly.
Please actually read what has been posted at this forum.

One example:

Simple question: What happened to the people who were sent to the camps? / 'Where did they go?'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13204

And do show us the human remains that are claimed to exist in known places
ex.:
!! Excavation Result: No Human Remains of alleged 34,000 Jews as claimed at Babi Yar !! In fact, no remains period.': viewtopic.php?t=11314
Babi Yar: The alleged Einsatzgruppen 'Killings'
http://www.unz.com/article/babi-yar/
and:
What Happened to Jews Sent to the Aktion Reinhardt Camps?
by John Wear : http://www.unz.com/article/what-happene ... rdt-camps/

- Hannover

Only lies require censorship.

[borjastick]

DissentingOpinions can you give me a modern day location area with names of towns etc so I can be certain of where you think 5-6m jews were murdered? This would of course necessarily take some organisation, manpower, arms and munitions and some kind of digging and cover up operation. But hey if they can land a man on the moon eh?

I'd like to know where you think this happened so I can then take a serious look at your notion.

Who exactly is still looking for this monumental corpse mound all these years later. Surely the ISS could find it with one pass of their telescope photo machine...

[Lamprecht]

so where did they go? Nobody has an answer on this forum - just the notion of a tiny nonexistent village that held 5-6 million Jews in total secrecy & was removed from the maps after the war. It's clear as day to me - all Jews unfit for work were shot in the Ostland ghettos when they were ordered closed, there bodies are still being searched for.

Jews have legs and can use them to move around. Jews went wherever Jews are. It's the exterminationists claiming to know where they went: allegedly into enormous mass graves that have not been shown to actually exist.

The bodies are not "being searched for" - all attempts to supposedly prove the existence of these alleged mass graves fail to do so. I recommend:

Mass grave excavation guidelines / The "Mass grave excavations don't produce photographed bodies" lie
viewtopic.php?t=12889