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Haldan
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MUSELMAN

Postby Haldan » 1 decade 7 years ago (Sun Jul 17, 2005 8:11 pm)

MUSELMAN. dsr dsb, MUSELMANN: German term describing concentration camp inmates who had lost the will to live. On the verge of death from starvation, etc.

(Simon Wiesenthal Center Multimedia Learning Center)


I have seen all sorts of descriptions regarding the use of this word. I personally believe it was not used to specifically describe a concentration camp inmate.

In the book RAGNARÖK (by Erik Wallin) or ENDKAMPF UM BERLIN (von Viking Jerk/Erik Wallin) there is a rather vague reference for the use of this word.

The author writes that "muselmän" were something they [or Ragnar Johansson] called the ethnic Germans from roumania.
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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 7 years ago (Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:35 pm)

"Muselman" is definitely a strange part of the holocaust story. I never saw the word in Hilberg or anywhere; then at the official Auschwitz website, there it is, this strange description of the muselman state.

They're getting a fresh trainload of people every day. Able bodied workers. Yet who is in the factories doing the labor? People in the "muselman state."

I'm sure the Nazis felt real confident about leaving the wiring of their jet engines up to people in the "muselman state."

It's ridiculous.

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Postby Hotzenplotz » 1 decade 7 years ago (Mon Jul 18, 2005 4:18 pm)

For the non-Germans here: Normally, "Muselman" is a joking and old-use expression for muslim.

I think I remember having read somewhere that in Auschwitz-Birkenau, the term referred to those unfit for work. Possibly it originated in the idea that Arabs don't work (ever).

Also, there were other fun terms used to designate areas of the camps, e.g. "Mexico".

From the delightful scrapbookpages.com:
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Bi ... nau01.html

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Postby Hyman » 1 decade 7 years ago (Mon Jul 18, 2005 7:54 pm)

A small point -- it’s curious to note that at Auschwitz, among camp inmates and workers, there was a category lower on the totem pole than Jew. One would think that if, as the orthodox story has it, the place was designed for the extermination of the Jews, a macabre reference by inmates to the living dead would have a Jewish connotation, not an Islamic one. Probably, in a era before our politicians discovered the joys of egalitarianism, diversity, multiculturalism and cheap labor, westerners still had the sense to understand that the Islamic culture was quite different from their own and quite different from what they would want to live under, not to mention that in the not so distant past Islamic armies made mighty attempts to impose Islam on the whole of Europe. So to be a Muslim was to be something undesirable. After reading the first posts in this thread, I ran a web-search to refresh my memory of what the term “muselmann” had meant in the camps. I hit on an Islamic website in which a PhD of some sort (Dr. S Parvez Manzoor) expounds upon the matter. http://www.islam21.net/pages/keyissues/key5-20.htm Part of his essay includes the following:

“For its part, the authoritative Encyclopaedia Judaica has this explanation under the entry Muselmann: 'Used mainly at Auschwitz, the term appears to derive from the typical attitude of certain deportees, that is, staying crouched on the ground, legs bent in the Oriental fashion, faces rigid as masks.' (S.V.) Not to be outdone, another observer associates 'the typical movements of the Muselmnner, the swaying motions of the upper part of the body, with Islamic rituals.' (Sofsky, Wolfgang: The Order of Terror: The Concentration Camp. (Translated by William Templer), Princeton University Press, 1997. p. 329, n.5.) Even more revealing are the synonyms which are, as if often the case with jargon, brutally forthright and non-euphemistic. Thus according to the same author: 'The expression (Muselmnner) was in common use, especially in Auschwitz, from where it spread to other camps as well. …. In Majdanek, the word was unknown. The living dead there were termed 'donkeys'; in Dachau they were 'cretins', in Stutthof 'cripples', in Mauthausen 'swimmers', in Neuengamme 'camels', in Buchenwald 'tired sheiks', and in the women's camp known as Ravensbrück, Muselweiber (female Muslims) or 'trinkets'.”

Nowadays, we know that Islam is a peaceful religion except for those relatively few Muslims that here and there blow themselves and others up to make a point.

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 7 years ago (Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:13 am)

If these muselmen were unable to work then, according to the myth, they wouldn't have been around long enough to gain a name. Any name that was given to them would surely have reflected their impending murder.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 7 years ago (Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:30 am)

Yes, one minute they're saying that if you had the slightest blemish, you were sent to the gas chamber or shot, and then replaced. The next second they say that workers existed for weeks in this "muselman" state.

One would think that the factories in Monowitz were sort of important for the war effort, and thus maybe they would want workers that would do the best job for them. I'm not sure how the "muselman state" fits into that.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 7 years ago (Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:33 pm)

CCS said:
Yes, one minute they're saying that if you had the slightest blemish, you were sent to the gas chamber or shot, and then replaced. The next second they say that workers existed for weeks in this "muselman" state.

It appears the description of the wasted 'muselmen' were ill inmates and the propagandists have exploited this as something more. It's just another of the endless contradictions within the story. These 'muselman' would have been gassed according to the mythology. But then so would've the old, ill, children, others unable to work; the 'useless eaters'.
But yet, upon 'liberation' of Auschwitz by the communists, we have, the old, the ill, the very young, and 'useless eaters' healthy and quite alive:

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The alleged 'attempt to exterminate all Jews' is exposed for the fraud that it is.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Radar » 1 decade 7 years ago (Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:46 pm)

It seems that the term "muselman" was one used in the camps to describe a sick prisoner who was regarded as finished. The Belgian prisoner at Dachau, Arthur Haulot uses the term in that way in his dairy. See "The Revisonist" magazine, August 2004, page 265. The article recounts the story of Ingrid Weckert's attempt to compare Haulot's comparably favorable treatment at Dachau with the abuse suffered by post war German military prisoners at the same camp as described in the dairy of Gert Naumann. Weckert's article telling the stories in the German magazine
"Sleipnir" resulted in all issues being burned by order of a morally corrupt German Court in 1997 believe it or not.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 7 years ago (Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:42 pm)

I never thought of that Hannover.

If they had this big "Doctor Mengele selection process" when one arrived at Auschwitz, why were so many kids and old people among the "liberated."

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 7 years ago (Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:57 am)

Hi Radar, Glad you're back with your erudite comments.

Interesting post. I realized you meant diary, rather than dairy. I'll have to check out "The Revisionist" magazine. Never heard of it before.


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