Green, Mathis refuted / cyanide: lice, humans, & more

[Radar]

human beings packed like sardines heated up the rooms enough to allow evaporate the gas

If you rebuilt a camp morgue and packed it with people in the winter the internal temperature would hardly rise. Let's estimate a 45 degree fahrenheit bunker temperature. After a few minutes of packing the temperature would be no more than 55 at the most. Zyklon needs 79 fahrenheit to reach the chemical reaction point. Eyewitness accounts always tell of quick herding into the chambers immediately followed by Zyklon being poured in. No waiting period for body heating.

But, if you packed people in according to accounts, they would have blocked the critical exhaust vents that were located only a foot or so off the floor along the walls.

[Carto's Cutlass Supreme]

Hey Radar, I finally see what you're saying. Thanks!

Also, you wrote

The commonly accepted image was of war-type fogging gas quickly overwhelming the victims.

That's so true. The horrors of WWI, just 20 years earlier, had imprinted on the civilian population as to what "gas" is: Some hissing cannister billowing blue smoke. Some foggy substance coming out of a fake shower head. As a result, their gas chamber lies are completely botched. Not corresponding with the properties of HCN at all.

[Hannover]

IMO, this is one of best examples of a 'holocau$t' Industry spokemen being utterly demolished in debate with informed Revisionists.

They, through spokesman Andrew Mathis and a character who calls himself 'Germania', have been given every opportunity to makes their points, but yet they get clobbered. Their last resort, smear tactics as usual.

The attempt by the 'holocau$t' Industry to claim the scientific high ground is stripped bare. The so called 'Holocau$t History Project' wears no clothes.

- Hannover

[Daniel Saez Lorente]

"The measurement standard used for the HCN killing insects is the measurement for killing every single insect."

Not only that, but, more importantly, not just adult insects, but eggs and larvae. Not only does this require greater quantities or higher concentrations, but much longer time periods. It must penetrate every crack or crevice in the entire space to be fumigated.
Incidentally the reason for the deletion of the warning agent in Zyklon was to ensure that the gas was suitable for the fumigation of foodstuffs and tobacco. The irritant "Warnstoff" left a disagreeable taste or odour.
HCN is a protoplasmic poison, directly lethal to all living tissue. The quantity required to kill a human being is the amount absorbed into the body, not the amount released into the air.

[Daniel Saez Lorente]

aemathisphd wrote:

Of course Green concluded the opposite, but consider this as well: Cyanide crystals, when used to execute inmates in the U.S., were immersed in water to have the gas begin to release.

WATER???!!! When I read something like this, I begin to wonder whether a person knows anything.

[Daniel Saez Lorente]

As I understand this discussion the claim is that killing insects requires less HCN than human beings, and this is why there is 1000 x as much ferricferrocyanide in the masonry in the disinfestation chambers as the so-called gas chambers. The problem is that Zyklon evaporates very slowly, unless heated; if you wished the people in the chamber to die very quickly (as per Holocaust literature, in perhaps 20 minutes or so at most), large quantities of Zyklon would have to be used, which would of course continue to evaporate long after all the people in the chamber had died. The situation would be further aggravated by the strange failure to neutralize the HCN with ammonia; instead the cold underground cellars which are alleged to have been used as gas chambers were supposedly washed out with WATER, which would not only fail to neutralize the acid, but would raise the humidity, accelerate the precipitation rate, and slow the evaporation rate during any subsequent gassing. Thus the quantities of ferricferrocyanide in the masonry of the gas chambers should be huge, regardless of any comparision with insects.
It should also be noted that fumigation for insects takes anywhere from 6 hours to 2 days; the people are alleged to have died in as little as a few minutes, 2 or 3 in some cases.

[Daniel Saez Lorente]

"The measurement standard used for the HCN killing insects is the measurement for killing every single insect."

Not only that, but, more importantly, not just adult insects, but eggs and larvae. Not only does this require greater quantities or higher concentrations, but much longer time periods.

I quote myself above. I do not wish to be misunderstood. I mean: killing the eggs and larvae require larger quantities than if you simply wished to kill all the adult insects. It is true that killing insects generally requires less HCN that killing people. But even for people, it is not a simple matter.
A concentration in the air of 5 ppm can be breathed indefinitely. What is more the sensitivity varies according to the individual. Since HCN poisoning causes unconsciousness, I have always wondered how Hoess and the gas house boys knew when the people were dead. Caryll Chessman took 13 minutes to die at a concentration of thousands of parts per million, for many years thought sufficient to cause "instant death". An inmate named Lawson in Raleigh North Carolina took 19 minutes to die.
Indeed with all the complications it is hard to see why HCN is said to have been used at all; suffocation would be almost as fast. Nitrogen or carbon dioxide could also be used, presumably the people would suffer less. It's an interesting idea. Why don't we try it sometime? (If Professor Mathis will volunteer to act as guinea pig). Personally I think phosgene would be a more logical choice of gas. In any case it is incorrect to discuss Zyklon as if it were equivalent to HCN. The acid is absorbed in a solid to slow the evaporation rate and render it LESS dangerous to human beings. Anyone wishing to execute people would use cyanide salt immersed in acid (which would probably be cheaper as well, but too dangerous to bother with). The communists have never gassed people and they are worldclass experts on killing. Why not shoot them all in the back of the neck? I get a kick out of all these stories saying how sadistic the Nazis were, and at the same time that they had to invent all sorts of gas van contraptions because their men were so upset at killing people.

[PLAYWRIGHT]

Regarding the 1990 Krakow report, there is an interesting detail that neither Rudolph nor the Poles seems to have addressed.

The first time the Poles took samples, they found nothing. The second time they sampled, using areas in the Krema ruins that were the least exposed to the elements, they found cyanide traces. The testing method they used deliberatly discriminated against the Iron Blues, looking for cyanide bound to compounds other than iron.

Irritatingly, their testing method didn't tell us WHAT elements the cyanide was bound to, but looking at their elemental analysis of the mortar, the mostly likely compound would have been calcium cyanide.

Calcium cyanide is extremely poisonous and also extremely water-soluable. In fact, the only non-soluable compound that could have been formed are Iron Blues, which Rudolph extensively analyes.

If the cyanide that the Poles found is from calcium cyanide, it's extremely unlikely that the origin of the cyanide was from the 1940's. Even high humidity would have dissolved it, it's just too soluable to survive in the elements.

The most likely source for the cyanide the Poles found in 1990 is modern air pollution. The Germans built, but never quite finished, the rubber plant at Monowitz, only a few kilometers from Birkenau. The Poles DID finish the plant after the war, and to this day, they make synthetic rubber at Monowitz.

Communist air control standard were lax, and synthetic rubber creates a lot of air pollution. Among the precurser chemicals for synthetic rubber is acetonitrle, chemical formula CH3CN.

It's also known as methyl cyanide, and it's hard to contain. Monowitz must have leaked tons of that over that decades.

As the Poles noted, they found no traces indoors, and only in areas of the Krema's protected from the elements. It's likely that the traces they found were due to air pollution from modern day Monowitz. The protected areas of the Krema's would be natural wind traps.

[Scott]

DSL
I get a kick out of all these stories saying how sadistic the Nazis were, and at the same time that they had to invent all sorts of gas van contraptions because their men were so upset at killing people.

Me too.

[Hannover]

Yep, I received yet another hate email from Andrew Mathis, so I thought it fitting to have this thread brought to the front. The poor, sad man lives his life through me. He keeps creating new email addresses just so he can get around my filters. Pathetic.

Among many desperate acts, Andrew Mathis is a man responsible for threatening Revisionists.

Andrew (little Andy) Mathis is also a premiere spokesman for the laughable, so called 'holocau$t' History Project, and has cemented himself to the floor of the scientifically impossible 'holocau$t' storyline. Now he resorts to desperate acts as the ultimately unsustainable 'holocau$t' lies fall apart faster than a cheap suit.

Imagine, this poor man is supposedly an 'academic' associated with La Salle University. Oy! The standards have certainly declined in academia.

Also see this on Andrew Mathis:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=254
and:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1526

Must be difficult defending lies, eh Andy?

- Hannover

[unsubscribe]

If you rebuilt a camp morgue and packed it with people in the winter the internal temperature would hardly rise. Let's estimate a 45 degree fahrenheit bunker temperature. After a few minutes of packing the temperature would be no more than 55 at the most. Zyklon needs 79 fahrenheit to reach the chemical reaction point. Eyewitness accounts always tell of quick herding into the chambers immediately followed by Zyklon being poured in. No waiting period for body heating.

But, if you packed people in according to accounts, they would have blocked the critical exhaust vents that were located only a foot or so off the floor along the walls.

Heat is commonly incorrectly referred to as a noun, but it's a process where hotter air travels to cooler air. No doubt the room, concrete, and outside air maintaining these areas would be more powerful than the "heat" being produced by the bodies of prisoners for such a short period.