Archie wrote:Re: Hilberg, I think his view might have changed somewhat over time. I know in the original 1961 version of his book, he claimed there were Hitler orders. [...] The mind-reading quote is from sometime later. (I want to say 1982). It was a comment he made at some event. Hilberg confirmed the quote under oath.
His views certainly became more elaborate, but from what you quoted he still believes in a Hitler order, without any evidence, even though he was forced to revise his book and pad it out with claims of winks and nods. I think it's safe to assume that he believed in a Hitler order because he
wanted to believe in it, it was totally irrational on his part. It seems like something rather emotional for him.
He made the mind reading statement on February 22nd 1983. I quoted from
'Dissecting the Holocaust' earlier in this thread with the brief overview.
So it wasn't just Jewish-Bolshevik commissars that had to be killed. It was Jewish people, was it?, asked Christie.
"Well, this particular problem is the one that caused a lot of discussion," said Hilberg. "There is no precise, clear answer as to what the exact wording was. We could only deduce from subsequent explanations by lower ranking individuals who passed on this particular command, particularly to the Einsatzgruppen, what it was that was being ordered."
This was the commissars order to the Einsatzgruppen, was it?, asked Christie.
"Ultimately it was the order not only to the Einsatzgruppen, it was to the armed forces as well."
I want to understand clearly, said Christie. This order says, 'Annihilate Jewish Bolshevik commissars', right?
"Mm-hmmm," said Hilberg. (4-836)
And you interpret that to mean 'Annihilate Jewish people and Bolshevik commissars', right?
"Correct."
Germar Rudolf ed., The First Zündel Trial (Castle Hill Publishers, February 2020), Pp. 147-148.
This is the kind of interpretive nonsense we see time and time again from these exterminationists, Richard Evans did the same thing with the Schlegelberger document. It honestly blows my mind that they can be this deluded. But it's perhaps not wholly surprising seeing as they're actively looking to find anything they can use to substantiate a conclusion they've already decided upon. It's confirmation bias at its worst. But this, this is just insane, you'd have to pretend that the National Socialists didn't refer to Bolshevism as 'Judeo-Bolshevism' as a single entity, because Bolshevism is Jewish. If the Commissars were already thought to be Jewish, then it would be ridiculous to issue an order to kill the Jews and the Commissars. Just order the annihilation of the Jews and be done with it.
That this is what's put forward as the 'evidence' the 'experts' have for their beloved Holocaust - a blatantly intellectually disingenuous 'interpretation' - should make anyone think twice about appealing to their credentials and positions of authority.
It should be noted that Hilberg continuously avoided answering very simple questions, even though he was capable in his book of making very simple definitive statements. Suddenly this wasn't the case, and he had to try and find a logical way to interpret what simply didn't exist.
Hilberg kept side stepping the question Doug Christie put to him about whether the Einsatzgruppen were ordered to kill all Jews 'on the spot' as part of the Commissar Order. He wouldn't give an answer, despite the fact that he claimed they were ordered to do so in his book. Even when questioned by Mr. Christie, Hilberg claimed that when the
Einsatsgruppen commanders were in Nuremberg they 'made statements about what it is they were told to do' (implying they were to kill Jews), but when asked whether 'what it is is they were told to do' was kill all Jews 'on the spot', Hilberg diverted from the question and started making baseless assertions that because the four Einsatzgruppen units had 3,000 men per unit, it's therefore unlikely they were just ordered to kill Commissars, and that's how he concludes the order was really about 'the Jews' generally; despite the fact he offered no evidence and he simply could've answered 'yes' to Doug Christie if the
Einsatagruppen commanders in Nuremberg really did explicitly state they were ordered to kill Jews. Evidently they did not, because Hilberg just ignores it.
Q. But there is a hyphen in there that you think exists. Right?
A. Yes.
Q. But it doesn’t say Jewish people and Bolshevik Commissars.
A. No, it does not. And obviously, one would not call a conference and one would not discuss in great detail, and one would not have extensive articles if the matter were clear-cut. There is such a thing as a gap in knowledge of history, and we are dealing here with one of the more complex problems of what the Germans called decision-making in this case.
Q. Right. It doesn’t appear, from your very brief and unfootnoted statement at the very bottom of page 177, that this is a very complex subject, that the order, as such, does not exist but we have an account of it from somebody else. None of that seems indicated in the very simple words: “Basically, we are dealing with two of Hitler’s decisions. One order was given in the spring of 1941, during {837|838} the planning of the invasion of the USSR; it provided that small units of the SS and Police be dispatched to Soviet territory, where they were to move from town to town to kill all Jewish inhabitants on the spot.” Right?
A. Yes, these are introductory words to a chapter.
Q. Yes.
A. And in the subsequent pages you will find in the footnotes that you are looking for reference to particular sources, including the directive that I mentioned by General Warlimont and other commanders, including above all the commanders of Einsatzgruppen who, to the extent that they were around in Nuremberg, made statements about what it is they were told to do.
Q. Yes, what it is they were told to you, even according to you now, is not to kill all Jewish inhabitants on the spot, but it was to kill Jewish-Bolshevik Commissars. Correct?
A. What I am saying is that the original wording justifying the establishment of special units called {838|839} organs in this particular language of the S.S. and Police was the killing of Jewish-Bolshevik Commissars. This was the justification. The units to be established for this purpose belonged to the S.S. and Police, which was deemed to be the type of organization to carry out such a political task, rather than the armed forces. This, of course, does not exhaust the problem. One would not set up four units aggregating three thousand men to kill a small handful of people, Bolshevik Commissars, who were extremely few, and who were not often captured since they tried to avoid capture, naturally, and there would be little point in establishing, with high ranking personnel, three thousand men, such, you know, for such a single small purpose, relatively small purpose.
Germar Rudolf ed., The First Zündel Trial (Castle Hill Publishers, February 2020), Pp. 148.
