Why would they invent this ?

[Moderator]

Remi Perron:
You were asked for specifics.
Tell us what Michel de Boüard actually said.
No games, please
Thanks again, M1

[Elroy]

Are you familiar with the concept of false memory ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_memory
And what do you mean by « a strong ethnogenetic cause to lie. » ?

Like i said, peoples like Vrba or Müller are real liars. Even with the false memory process you couldn't go that far.
The two types of witness are :
1) The real liar, he invent things and KNOW that they are false at the time he tell them.
2) The person who sincerly believed stories, is tricked by his memorie or who have misinterpreted what he saw/heard.

Yes I am. What I mean by ethnogenetic cause to lie is that, being say "jewish" there is a strong ethnic pull to appease your own kind and promote your own group, this applies nationalistically, genetically and religiously. The victim lied about, the German, is also selectively desirable to lie about because of the hatred of them (ethnogenetic revenge), so from both ways, self promotion and revenge, we have clear impetus, either consciously, unconsciously (or both) to lie. and instill "false memory".

So your saying hundreds of people (or thousands considering auxillary witnesses as well) underwent some kind of false memory experience? First you claim the hive mind thing as implausible even though it's neither necessary or how it works anyway, now your claiming a different kind of hive mind activity as being plausible? Can't get on board with that reasoning.

Someone who sincerely believed stories is believable and obvious- forming false memories around that to the effect of extermination, even though they didn't see that- is a fanciful way of saying they are a LIAR whilst giving them a free pass to lie.

In other words, if the whole holocaust myth collapsed tomorrow, all of those false witnesses who could use this clause would effectively be "innocent"- lol not believable.

Misinterpreted??

How could you possibly "misinterpret" a thoudand living people being marched into Crematoria 2, and nobody coming out, in full view of the barracks at the camp?

That didn't happen, and we know that didn't happen- therefore, it is a lie?

I challenge you further to actually provide an instance where somebody "misinterpreted" a Holocaust event that in any way provides evidence for "extermination"- that is to say, saying she heard the rumours and then warm water came down instead doesn't count, because it rather proves the opposite.

[Rémi Perron]

You were asked for specifics.
Tell us what Michel de Boüard actually said.
No games, please
Thanks again, M1

I did :

I'll do my best to translate the testimony of Michel de Boüard, interned in Mauthausen, who at least one time, talked about a gas chamber like he saw it, and explain why, without being a liar in my opinion, for he was sincere at the moment of his testimony.

« In the monograph about Mauthausen that i gave in WW2 History Review in 54, two times, i talk about a gas chamber. Reflexion time has came, and i asked myself : where did i acquired this conviction that their was a gaz chamber in Mauthausen ? It wasn't during my time in this camp because nor myself, nor anyone esle though that their was one, so it's a « luggage » that i received after the war, it was admited. Then i saw in my text - while i support my statments with references - their were not concerning gas chamber. »

Original quote :

« Dans la monographie sur Mauthausen que j’ai donnée dans La Revue d’histoire de la deuxième guerre mondiale en 54, à deux reprises je parle d’une chambre à gaz. Le temps de la réflexion venu, je me suis dit : où ai-je acquis la conviction qu’il y avait une chambre à gaz à Mauthausen? Ce n’est pas pendant mon séjour au camp car ni moi ni personne ne soupçonnions qu’il pouvait y en avoir, c’est donc un « bagage » que j’ai reçu après la guerre, c’était admis. Puis j’ai remarqué que dans mon texte – alors que j’appuie la plupart de mes affirmations par des références – il n’y en avait pas concernant la chambre à gaz. »

Elroy

So your saying hundreds of people (or thousands considering auxillary witnesses as well) underwent some kind of false memory experience? First you claim the hive mind thing as implausible even though it's neither necessary or how it works anyway, now your claiming a different kind of hive mind activity as being plausible?

I don't go that far. I'm just saying some of them experienced false memory, those are not liars. And Michel de Boüard is one of them.

By misinterpretation i think of simple things, for example, let's figure out a group of prisonners transfered without the other notice, and if nobody got any news from the prisonners, then they abusivly conclude that the prisonners were killed. If they add this to the previous rumours, they convice themselves that an extermination is on the way. In prison environment, imagination usually get crazy.

[Hannover]

Remi:

Interesting statements by Böuard, merci.

more here:
'Interview with Michel De Böuard on the Thesis of Nantes"
http://ihr.org/jhr/v08/v08p381_Lebailly.html

While he was skeptical of the 'gas chambers' at Mauthausen, he said when questioned:

Ouest-France:
"If one were to accept, like Mr. Roques, that the Gerstein testimony is to be completely rejected, would that change anything regarding your belief in the gas chambers?"

Michel de Böuard:
"Certainly not!"

We have discussed the numerous and vastly conflicting 'Gerstein testimonies' at this forum; they are laughable, easily debunked fakery.
see
'spokesman Roberto Muehlenkamp says "confessions" of Kurt Gerstein proves 'holocaust' / seriously?'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=11282

What do you now say about your Böuard?

- Hannover

Often the most ridiculous, illogical questions are best answered in the most direct manner:
If Jews are so sure that millions of Jews were murdered, then why do they ask such dumb questions like "what happened to them"?

[Rémi Perron]

I'm not De Boüard advocate.
Even if he admit that the Gerstein testimony is pointless, for him, that don't change anything about the "gas chambers" in general.
Well, that's not totaly wrong, Gerstein's lies proves that Gerstein is a liar, nothing more. The thing is every other so called "evidence" of "extermination" are from the same cloth. If De Boüard didn't saw that, that's too bad for him.

[Hektor]

Are you familiar with the concept of false memory ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_memory
And what do you mean by « a strong ethnogenetic cause to lie. » ?

Like i said, peoples like Vrba or Müller are real liars. Even with the false memory process you couldn't go that far.
The two types of witness are :
1) The real liar, he invent things and KNOW that they are false at the time he tell them.
2) The person who sincerly believed stories, is tricked by his memorie or who have misinterpreted what he saw/heard.

Yes I am. What I mean by ethnogenetic cause to lie is that, being say "jewish" there is a strong ethnic pull to appease your own kind and promote your own group, this applies nationalistically, genetically and religiously. The victim lied about, the German, is also selectively desirable to lie about because of the hatred of them (ethnogenetic revenge), so from both ways, self promotion and revenge, we have clear impetus, either consciously, unconsciously (or both) to lie. and instill "false memory".
.....

Group pressure was traditionally strong in Jewish communities, the Kahal. If one doesn't go with the leaders, he'd be ostracized. One can read this up in the book of Siegfried Passarge on Jewry, and in even more detail in the Book of Kahal by Yakov Brafman. The "disciplining" is mostly psychological exclusion of Jewish dissidents and also smear tactics against them.

[Breker]

We ask Mr. Perron to tell us about an "eyewitness" Jew who he believes was not lying.
B.

[Elroy]

Remi Peron;

If a bunch of prisoners got seperated, which actually has happened- and neither group such as male/female, or one group selected for work elsewhere etc, seen the other again, heard the rumours and assumed the others had been wasted- and there testimony was to that effect- then they didn't lie.

If they inserted your "false memory" into the story by say, claiming that they "seen" them all marched into crema 2 and not come out again, insted going up the chimney, well then that's a lie.

How do you think your "false memory" gets there?? By basically brainwashing yourself and allowing yourself to be reinforced by others that something you know is false is real.

That's funny, because I haven't had a false memory which I knew in the back of my mind wasn't exactly true. Sounds like a Holocaust-Myth Establishment "Turd Polish" for another pathetic ad hoc excuse.

Your example is a liar, please try again for another single Jew who claims to be an eye-witness to extermination related which is self believable? I have not yet been able to find that lie-witness?

According to Fred Leuchter, neither could he?

[Dresden]

Elroy said:

"That's funny, because I haven't had a false memory which I knew in the back of my mind wasn't exactly true. Sounds like a Holocaust-Myth Establishment "Turd Polish" for another pathetic ad hoc excuse.

Your example is a liar, please try again for another single Jew who claims to be an eye-witness to extermination related which is self believable? I have not yet been able to find that lie-witness?

According to Fred Leuchter, neither could he?"

Neither could Rassinier.

I have not seen on video or read the account of any Jewish "witness" to homicidal gas chambers or an extermination program that included mass graves and outdoor cremations, that I did not consider to be a raving lunatic, and a willful liar.

[borjastick]

Never let the truth get in the way of a good story

That was what I was told by several key people in my early years in the London advertising industry way back in the late 1970s.

The holocaust is very similar in the way it treats testimonies and witnesses. They believed what they were told and thus what they thought they saw in the camps. These people were frightened and vulnerable and were not of the same cynical nature that we are here. People were largely naive in those days.

Away from the camps the growing zionist and supporting political movement seized the opportunity, afforded them by the holocaust situation, to great effect. Mobilisation by jews in the west, Poland, Russia all jumped on the chance to paint the Germans as evil mass murderers and at the same time connected the dots to a homeland for the jews, a zionist utopia. Never again would such an opportunity come along. It was the perfect storm.

None of that makes the claims of the holocaust true. Unfortunately for them science and investigation have rendered the gas chambers a myth and the six million who didn't exist in the first place. It's all a story, and jews love a good yarn.

There is no coincidence that many of the world's biggest and most successful advertising groups and PR gurus were and are jews. As I say, never let the truth get in the way of a good story...

[Breker]

What you seem to be saying, borjastick, is that Jews are a self centered control freak lot with a strong tendency to lie for gain.
B.

[borjastick]

What you seem to be saying, borjastick, is that Jews are a self centered control freak lot with a strong tendency to lie for gain.
B.

If you were on a golf course you'd have just dropped the ball in the pot for a hole in one

[donron]

If the holocaust is a fiction then who would be in on it? When did it start? And why? Why would people invent this massive crime? I'm genuinely interested in your answers. I'm not one of those people who thinks that it's all about anti-semitism. You know, it may be all a fiction.
I can see that the 6 million bodies haven't been dug up. But approaching it from the other direction, why should they invent this fiction?

First things first Sweeny: Why don't we determine the answer to your very first statement:

"If the holocaust is a fiction"

"IF"

Why don't you tell us Sweeny, IF you think the Majdanek holocaust was fact or fiction:

This is what the Majdanek museum claimed in 1945:



The sign in the upper right reads:

MAJDANEK 1941 - 1944

5 OVENS
6 GAS CHAMBERS
1,300m³ COMPOST
820,000 PAIRS OF SHOES

2,000,000 MURDERED PEOPLE
FROM AROUND THE WORLD

How much is fact and how much is fiction Sweeny?

Here is some more information to help you with the answer:

https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6373&hilit=majdanek+microcosm

[Callahan]

Which is why I have strong suspicions about this Sweeney character asking 2 such questions in a row on this forum as one would expect someone here to have reviewed such material before making statements like that.

I'd only note that, as most of us are aware, it is extremely difficult to first begin investigating this topic. I asked some rather "foolish" questions and even held a subtle assumption that I was among nothing but brilliantly-deceptive racists/'antisemites' when I first started here and I think that defensiveness was displayed in my tone, throughout my first few posts. I'd give a bit of patience and leeway to anyone new to this topic. We'll all have those big questions that stand in the way of a full willingness to investigate the Revisionist position, so I think the primary goal has to be to help everyone along and assume the best until proven otherwise.

That said, we don't want to be flooded with "trolling" comments/posts, either. I don't think that will be a problem, though, as I get the sense that the moderator is quite keen and perhaps even overly-defensive in that regard.

[Moderator]

That said, we don't want to be flooded with "trolling" comments/posts, either. I don't think that will be a problem, though, as I get the sense that the moderator is quite keen and perhaps even overly-defensive in that regard.

We're the no.1 "Holocaust" discussion site in the world, and we're going to stay that way.

Our basic guidelines allow everyone to debate in an orderly manner without ridiculous trash talk, subject changing, & the biggie ... there's no dodging. All of those & more go on at other sites.
Our standards are such that anyone can get a clear picture of all sides without wading through tons of deliberately distracting posts.

Anyone who feels they cannot discuss a particular "Holocaust" topic can post their complaint here:

name a specific "holocaust" topic censored / banned here
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7322

"Overly defensive"? Me?
Nope, everyone agrees to the simple and clear guidelines when they register. It's up to them.

Cheers, M1